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How would a outright burqa and face veil ban go down in England? Watch

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    (Original post by Moonstruck16)
    We're talking about national security, unfair it may be but it is not necessary for life and is not a human right. And I'm not talking about crime, I'm talking about crime where criminals, if they get away, will never be identified because they are wearing something that does not allow them to be identified, the niqab.

    Banning the niqab will hopefully remove at least one of the many safety flaws.
    What are the risks to national security of people wearing the niqab or burka? I'm really quite sceptical that the risk is anything but astronomically small.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    What are the risks to national security of people wearing the niqab or burka? I'm really quite sceptical that the risk is anything but astronomically small.
    Give the high terror risk, I think uncovered faces would be appreciated.

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    (Original post by Moonstruck16)
    Give the high terror risk, I think uncovered faces would be appreciated.

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    Is there any evidence that forcing people to uncover their faces would have an impact on terrorism? Let alone an impact significant enough to justify such an infringement of civil liberty?
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Please explain to me how the root of the niqab is oppression. Any historical evidence? This is merely an opinion.

    Honestly I don't care who it intimidates. Another person's irrational fear of the niqab isn't a reason to not wear it, or to ban women completely from wearing it. I know at least 9 women who wear the niqab - 5 started wearing it long before getting married, at a very young age, and 4 of them started wearing it as a result of becoming more religious, eventually convincing their "oppressive" husbands that it's the way forward. Some of their friends actually started avoiding them for this reason, because apparently most people associate it with extremism nowadays. Just because a few women you've met have apparently been forced into it means nothing. It is their own individual situation, it doesn't apply to the entire Muslim population.

    Well, actually, the reason wouldn't be that "the Prophet's wives did that", the reason would be the fact that it's allowed in Islam and you or other Muslims being against it doesn't change that. I find it so hypocritical how people claim to follow a religion yet completely reject or choose to ignore parts of it. You don't shape Islam to suit your desires or "Western" outlook on life. Yes you are obliged to follow this "600 year-old lifestyle" (try 1400) if it is your religion.

    The Hadith I'm talking about isn't false and is graded as Sahih, therefore it is reliable. If as a Muslim you consider Hadith to be unreliable then, well, I don't know what to say to that.

    I feel I have a lot more liberty, as you say, as a "non-liberal" (lol) Muslim woman. What's so liberating about showing your breasts on the cover of magazines? Pretty much everything Western women dedicate their lives to nowadays is done for the attention of men, whether they realise it or not, and that to me is the most oppressive culture.
    So you are leaving the country apparently because you feel like every time you wear a niqab you are the enemy of the UK - and you are perplexed as to why this is. Yet, you are happy to equally say that Western women whether aware or not, dedicate their lives to the attention of men.

    And we wonder why Islam breeds terrorists when you obviously oppose Western society alltogether?

    Please get that flight asap, I'll even pay for you.
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    (Original post by Tariq Ali)
    Perhaps if westerners weren't so fond of judging peoples appearance maybe the veil/burqa wouldn't be needed. We want freedom from the uglyness of the kuffar way of life.
    Well Tariq, perhaps that has more to do with the men of your faith who have problems controlling their urges (see recent migrant rape cases in europe, child sex gangs run by muslims in the uk). But then honesty and Muslims don't usually go together do they so your post doesn't surprise me at all.
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    (Original post by Habibananna)
    Well said mashallah, I almost feel sorry for some muslim's in todays society, this immense need to be accepted and to integrate is to such a degree that they feel the need to follow kuffar and dislike their own religion, all to be accepted by mere humans. It's sad, but we should remember that the prophet (swt) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." That including some aspects of dressing.
    any chance of you heading out of england any time soon to wherever you are originally from?
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    (Original post by Serine Soul)
    Now that it's no longer religious, you tell me why someone shouldn't wear a mask in public. Do you have any idea on how intimidating it looks to the general public to see groups of women dressed all in black covering their face? They might as well just wear a Halloween mask. Do you think that these women actually want to wear it? Let me tell you, the women I personally know who wear it have accepted it because their husbands have forced them to. It's sickening. Say it's a woman's choice however much you like, I, and many other people will associate it with oppression, and to be true with you, the root of the niqab is oppression.

    Okay, the Prophet's wives did that. Cool. Does that I should also agree to my husband marrying multiple other women because 'the Prophet's wives did that?'? Genuine question.

    And how long ago was that? 600 years ago? Am I obliged to follow a 600 year old lifestyle now?

    Hadiths can be interpreted in different ways, and even be false. Unreliable sources imo

    Yes, I'm telling you again. It should be banned. If it's not, on the grounds of freedom of wearing whatever you want, I'd quite like my freedom of wearing nothing in public then thank you.

    I applaud Muslims who are becoming increasingly liberal. I think they are the only hope of the religion. The real problem are those Muslims who are so stuck with centuries-old beliefs (beliefs that are often illogical and have no foundation) and are completely refusing to embrace the liberties and freedoms that the western world has to offer.
    One true human being. Makes a positive change.
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    (Original post by le_darkhorse)
    So you are leaving the country apparently because you feel like every time you wear a niqab you are the enemy of the UK - and you are perplexed as to why this is. Yet, you are happy to equally say that Western women whether aware or not, dedicate their lives to the attention of men.

    And we wonder why Islam breeds terrorists when you obviously oppose Western society alltogether?

    Please get that flight asap, I'll even pay for you.
    I don't wear the niqab, however if I ever choose to I want to be in a country where this isn't looked down on and where I can practice my religion a lot more easily.

    You're taking what I said to extremes now
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    I don't wear the niqab, however if I ever choose to I want to be in a country where this isn't looked down on and where I can practice my religion a lot more easily.

    You're taking what I said to extremes now
    Wait you just said that if you choose to wear a niqab you don't want to be looked down on and you earlier said that you feel like people believe you are opposing them or words to that effect. So what if a British person felt that you were looking down on them for being a kuffar, for being a western woman who regardless of what she thinks is wasting her life dedicating it to the attentions of men?

    You can't pick and choose what you say. You want to practice your religion and not be judged. Well guess what? People in the UK want to practice their own cultures, values, traditions and do as they want without judgement from people like you.

    You've just completely contradicted yourself and shown why Islam and Muslims are intolerant and unable to accept other people for who they are, but expecting ironically that they accept you for who you are! This is why problems are occurring with Islam.
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    (Original post by Parx)
    Wait you just said that if you choose to wear a niqab you don't want to be looked down on and you earlier said that you feel like people believe you are opposing them or words to that effect. So what if a British person felt that you were looking down on them for being a kuffar, for being a western woman who regardless of what she thinks is wasting her life dedicating it to the attentions of men?

    You can't pick and choose what you say. You want to practice your religion and not be judged. Well guess what? People in the UK want to practice their own cultures, values, traditions and do as they want without judgement from people like you.

    You've just completely contradicted yourself and shown why Islam and Muslims are intolerant and unable to accept other people for who they are, but expecting ironically that they accept you for who you are! This is why problems are occurring with Islam.
    That's a silly comparison, I'm not preventing anyone from "being a kuffar" or living their western lifestyle, and I've never been disrespectful towards anyone simply for being different. So no, I haven't contradicted myself. If you want to see intolerance read the replies from the non-Muslims on this thread.
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    That's a silly comparison, I'm not preventing anyone from "being a kuffar" or living their western lifestyle, and I've never been disrespectful towards anyone simply for being different. So no, I haven't contradicted myself. If you want to see intolerance read the replies from the non-Muslims on this thread.
    You said no matter what western women think they are dedicating their lives to the attention of men. If you think you are able of making that judgement then why should they not be allowed to make negative judgements about you?

    You can't subjectively deny your contradiction. You objectively demonstrated your own negative judgement/stereotype towards western women. You cannot then say 'oh no but i don't do the same'. You do. You can't expect to have an attitude like that and then think that the world should accept your differences. No wonder people oppose Islam with your attitude.
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    It has been suggested in the past that France's ban has fueled Islamic extremism. I don't buy it tho. Look at England, it accommodates Islam and Islamic cultural practices - yet we still have plenty of people who hate this country despite being able to practise freely.
    It'll only get harder to introduce a ban as the years go on.
    A study from a while back showed French Muslims were less conservative but that as from 2009 so it would be interesting to see how things changed, especially compared to britian and other European countries.

    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    And I'm asking you, how will banning the niqab prevent people from wearing it? People are still free to wear it if they wish to break the law and go rob places, and won't be identified. Banning it won't solve anything.
    But a ban would give authorities an outright opening opportunity to prevent such things.

    Take the example of a bank, with the ban the moment somebody enters in a Niqab the bank security can immediately approach and effectively halt the person. For somebody committing a crime that means more resistance, means less likely to succeed and less likely to act out such a robbery.
 
 
 
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