Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by humanteaparty)
    China just put a tariff on UK steel entering China so why shouldn't we? It's a really bad idea to be dependant on a single country for all our steel as well. That's why we need to save our own industry by saving Tata steel and putting tariffs on chinese steel in the short term to increase demand for british steel.
    Just because China did something they shouldn't have does not mean that we should do something we shouldn't.

    It's very sad that Tata steel is going out of business. It's not the fault of the people who will lose their jobs that they work in a dying industry. But it happens and with the overproduction of steel in the world right now someone has to lose their job, whether it's British workers or Chinese workers or German workers, jobs will be lost. Technology improves over time and some jobs get lost and some get created. China can produce steel that is of much higher quality and they can do it cheaper.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Do you need help? Are you having a stroke?
    :lol: I just cracked up reading that and your response.

    It's like the words are in English, but I have no Idea what he's saying.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    :lol: I just cracked up reading that and your response.

    It's like the words are in English, but I have no Idea what he's saying.
    It's like this http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4Dfa4fOEY
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    A quick look at the actual evidence reveals that only two Labour governments have ever left office leaving the national debt higher than it was when they came to power, all of the others have lowered the national debt as a percentage of GDP.

    On the two occasions that Labour oversaw increases in the national debt there were the mitigating circumstances of huge global financial crises. The Ramsay MacDonald government of 1929-31 coincided with the Wall Street Crash (they left a 12% increase in the debt to GDP ratio), and the Blair-Brown government of 1997-2010 coincided with the 2008 financial sector insolvency crisis (an 11% increase). The other Labour governments all reduced the scale of the national debt, Clement Attlee's 1945-51 government reduced the national debt by 40% of GDP despite having to rebuild the UK economy from the ruins of the Second World War. Harold Wilson's 1964-70 government reduced the national debt by 27% of GDP and even the Wilson-Callaghan government of 1974-79 managed to reduce the debt by 4% of GDP.

    In order to put this "cleaning up Labour's mess" narrative to the test, it is useful to look at George Osborne's own record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. In his first 3 years as Chancellor George Osborne managed to add more to the national debt than the supposedly "profligate and irresponsible" Labour party did in the 13 preceding years. In fact, in just 4 years George Osborne has increased the national debt in real terms more than every Labour party chancellor in history combined.
    I am sorry that is nonsense.

    The first Labour Government was a very short lived disaster. The Atlee Government ran into a huge Sterling crisis, with Stafford Cripps devaluing the Pound by 30%. The Wilson Government had another Sterling crisis in 1967, in which "the pound in your pocket" magically didn't go down in value. Denis Healey had to go cap in hand to the IMF for a bailout, and we all know what happened at the end of the Blair Brown era. The mess we are in now.

    But sure the country will put its trust in Corbyn and McConnell because they REALLY have a clue don't they? Cripps, Healey, Callaghan and Brown were intellectual giants and statesmen compared to those two jokers. God help us if Labour get elected, but as I say,it won't happen.

    Your avatar is a disgrace by the way.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    I am sorry that is nonsense.
    No, no it's not.

    we all know what happened at the end of the Blair Brown era. The mess we are in now.
    What mess? Brown's government coincided with a global financial crisis.

    But sure the country will put its trust in Corbyn and McDonnell because they REALLY have a clue don't they? Cripps, Healey, Callaghan and Brown were intellectual giants and statesmen compared to those two jokers. God help us if Labour get elected, but as I say,it won't happen.
    I'm not a Labour supporter - I just like to point out that the right wing claim that they're always cleaning up Labour's messes is unfounded and wrong.

    Your avatar is a disgrace by the way.
    My avatar of Bobby Sands MP?
    It's a disgrace?
    How?
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    No, no it's not.


    What mess? Brown's government coincided with a global financial crisis.


    I'm not a Labour supporter - I just like to point out that the right wing claim that they're always cleaning up Labour's messes is unfounded and wrong.


    My avatar of Bobby Sands MP?
    It's a disgrace?
    How?
    Yes it is, and you know very well, how.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Yes it is, and you know very well, how.
    No, no I don't know how a photo of a former MP for my constituency of Fermanagh and South Tyrone and freedom fighter, Bobby Sands, could be ever construed as a 'disgrace'.
    Frankly I find it appalling that you could say that about him.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Yes it is, and you know very well, how.

    Maybe you'd prefer this avatar:


    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The new Left/Liberal interventionists hijacked Labour but maybe Corbyn can take it back.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chandellier)
    i don't understand why people would ever vote Labour or be a liberal. it just doesn't make any sense
    I often wonder why vote labour too. The lib dems often hold more policies that are alined with the labour base and labour itself is just a diluted version of the conservatives. Why not just vote Tory if that is the policies you want.

    Every party in politics knows what it is about except the Labour Party they are always concentrating on being kind of electable without looking at what their true supposed core values are and drumming support up for them

    If they do that my hypothesis is they would be electable on that basis anyway in 2025 and build their core support much more strongly.

    They won't win in 2020 anyway everyone knows it will be the conservatives again.

    Labours woes have led to the complete loss of Scotland, a major blow to support in Wales and even their grip on the northern cities is being chipped away by ukip.

    Labour should be making policies like building triple the amount of homes that we are currently, controlling migration (seriously not just words), investing in public services (they already are doing this), and serious capital investment projects all around the country on a grand scale.

    These are the things that the working class of all ages and the middle class under 40 ish really need


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chandellier)
    i don't understand why people would ever vote Labour or be a liberal. it just doesn't make any sense
    Conservatives are the types of people that condoned slavery and the like.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Maybe you'd prefer this avatar:


    Thank you for proving my point.

    The fact that a convicted baby murderer, who smeared **** all over his prison cell before starving himself to death, is a hero and role model for people like you is, as I said, a disgrace.

    Take a look at yourself. His "martyrdom" added years to the IRA campaign. And what did all that achieve accept murder, bloodshed hatred and suffering?

    Which isn't over yet, that is for sure.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Thank you for proving my point.

    The fact that a convicted baby murderer,
    Bobby Sands was arrested after a gun battle with the RUC after the bombing of Balmoral in retaliation for the McGurk's Bar bombing one week earlier, which had killed 15 Catholic civilians.

    who smeared **** all over his prison cell
    In March 1978 some prisoners refused to leave their cells to shower or use the lavatory because of attacks by prison officers, and were provided with wash-hand basins in their cells. The prisoners requested showers installed in their cells, and when this request was turned down they refused to use the wash-hand basins.

    At the end of April 1978 a fight occurred between a prisoner and a prison officer in H-Block 6. The prisoner was taken away to solitary confinement, and news spread across the wing that the prisoner had been badly beaten. The prisoners responded by throwing out the furniture in their cells, and the prison authorities responded by removing the remaining furniture from the cells leaving the prisoners in cells with just blankets and mattresses.
    The prisoners responded by refusing to leave their cells, and as a result the prison officers were unable to clear them. This resulted in the blanket protest escalating into the dirty protest, as the prisoners could not leave their cells to "slop out" and started smearing excrement on the walls of their cells.

    before starving himself to death
    After the introduction of internment in 1971, Long Kesh—later known as HM Prison Maze—was run like a prisoner of war camp. Internees lived in dormitories and disciplined themselves with military-style command structures, and held lectures on politics. Special Category, or political, status meant prisoners were treated similarly to prisoners of war; for example, not having to wear prison uniforms or do prison work.
    In 1976, as part of its policy of "criminalisation", the Thatcher's government brought an end to Special Category Status for newly convicted paramilitary prisoners.

    This 'criminalisation' attempted to deny exactly what was going on in the North - a war. That's why they call it the 'Troubles' - they couldn't face the fact that they were facing a war in their 'colony'.

    The hunger strike centred on five demands:
    the right not to wear a prison uniform;
    the right not to do prison work;
    the right of free association with other prisoners, and to organise educational and recreational pursuits;
    the right to one visit, one letter and one parcel per week;
    full restoration of remission lost through the protest.
    is a hero and role model for people like you is, as I said, a disgrace.
    He was a hero. It was evident to the journalists and Cardinal that visited that "it seems they prefer to face death rather than to submit to being classed as criminals. Anyone with the least knowledge of Irish history knows how deeply this attitude is in our country's past."

    It is clear that he was an extraordinary individual and his friends and comrades testify that he was leader of uncommon courage, commitment and loyalty. He was also a creature of his time and circumstance – although many made different choices – and it is barely conceivable that he would have ever seen the inside of a prison cell if it hadn't been for the conflict in which he was caught up. In another time and place, maybe he would simply have become a great poet, politician or – perhaps more likely, if prosaically - a coachbuilder (after school he was apprenticed to this trade).

    Take a look at yourself. His "martyrdom" added years to the IRA campaign. And what did all that achieve except murder, bloodshed hatred and suffering?
    Equality of, civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for Catholics.
    The furthering of a struggle that has plagued our land for 800 years.

    Which isn't over yet, that is for sure.
    Of course not.
    "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace" Padraig Pearse
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Bobby Sands was arrested after a gun battle with the RUC after the bombing of Balmoral in retaliation for the McGurk's Bar bombing one week earlier, which had killed 15 Catholic civilians.



    In March 1978 some prisoners refused to leave their cells to shower or use the lavatory because of attacks by prison officers, and were provided with wash-hand basins in their cells. The prisoners requested showers installed in their cells, and when this request was turned down they refused to use the wash-hand basins.

    At the end of April 1978 a fight occurred between a prisoner and a prison officer in H-Block 6. The prisoner was taken away to solitary confinement, and news spread across the wing that the prisoner had been badly beaten. The prisoners responded by throwing out the furniture in their cells, and the prison authorities responded by removing the remaining furniture from the cells leaving the prisoners in cells with just blankets and mattresses.
    The prisoners responded by refusing to leave their cells, and as a result the prison officers were unable to clear them. This resulted in the blanket protest escalating into the dirty protest, as the prisoners could not leave their cells to "slop out" and started smearing excrement on the walls of their cells.



    After the introduction of internment in 1971, Long Kesh—later known as HM Prison Maze—was run like a prisoner of war camp. Internees lived in dormitories and disciplined themselves with military-style command structures, and held lectures on politics. Special Category, or political, status meant prisoners were treated similarly to prisoners of war; for example, not having to wear prison uniforms or do prison work.
    In 1976, as part of its policy of "criminalisation", the Thatcher's government brought an end to Special Category Status for newly convicted paramilitary prisoners.

    This 'criminalisation' attempted to deny exactly what was going on in the North - a war. That's why they call it the 'Troubles' - they couldn't face the fact that they were facing a war in their 'colony'.

    The hunger strike centred on five demands:
    1. the right not to wear a prison uniform;
    2. the right not to do prison work;
    3. the right of free association with other prisoners, and to organise educational and recreational pursuits;
    4. the right to one visit, one letter and one parcel per week;
    5. full restoration of remission lost through the protest.
    is a hero and role model for people like you is, as I said, a disgrace.
    He was a hero. It was evident to the journalists and Cardinal that visited that "it seems they prefer to face death rather than to submit to being classed as criminals. Anyone with the least knowledge of Irish history knows how deeply this attitude is in our country's past."

    It is clear that he was an extraordinary individual and his friends and comrades testify that he was leader of uncommon courage, commitment and loyalty. He was also a creature of his time and circumstance – although many made different choices – and it is barely conceivable that he would have ever seen the inside of a prison cell if it hadn't been for the conflict in which he was caught up. In another time and place, maybe he would simply have become a great poet, politician or – perhaps more likely, if prosaically - a coachbuilder (after school he was apprenticed to this trade).



    Equality of, civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for Catholics.
    The furthering of a struggle that has plagued our land for 800 years.


    Of course not.
    "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace" Padraig Pearse
    [/QUOTE]

    I guess you are yourself the product of this sad, centuries long history of bitterness and internecine hatred.

    But it is no excuse, you are a human being and should have basic human decency.

    Bobby Sands was instrumental in starting the tit for tat murders that killed hundreds of innocents on both sides of the sectarian divide before he was even imprisoned. Then his hunger strike reignited murderous Republicanism and kept it going for decades.

    That is not to include the people he personally murdered, as in the below picture. Colin Nichol, RIP.

    Bobby Sands never aimed for reconciliation, for understanding, for peace. He worked for death. A truly evil man.

    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    Name:  12241197_1495435400760326_2757213281411088734_n.jpg
Views: 158
Size:  49.1 KB
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    I guess you are yourself the product of this sad, centuries long history of bitterness and internecine hatred.
    Hatred? I and republicans have no hatred apart from that of the English establishment, and the hundreds of years of oppression and genocide - both of the Irish people and culture - they have inflicted upon Ireland.

    Bobby Sands was instrumental in starting the tit for tat murders that killed hundreds of innocents on both sides of the sectarian divide before he was even imprisoned.
    Bobby Sands started nothing.
    The loyalist terror groups that murdered innocent Catholics while trying to claim them as 'IRA men' started this and at times dragged republicans into it.
    Of those killed by the PIRA, 7% of them were sectarian killings, compared to 90% of loyalist terror groups' killings.

    "With regard to propaganda and media characterisations of the conflict as a "grim cycle of tit-for-tat sectarian violence", the government made strenuous efforts to encourage the media to portray both sides as being equally involved in sectarian killings, and to not state the religion of the victims in order to conceal the fact that they were overwhelmingly Catholic.
    These tactics were intended to actively misrepresent Loyalist terror and cultivate the impression that Catholics and Protestants are senselessly killing each other in some sort of tribal vendetta.
    The truth is that almost all of the sectarian killings have been one-sided. Unlike Loyalist ideology, a cornerstone of Republican ideology is anti-sectarianism, and the IRA do not select targets on the basis of religion. Sectarian killings - that is, killing people simply because of their religion - is the hallmark only of the Loyalist death squads." - see Death Squad: The Anthropology of State Terror

    Then his hunger strike reignited murderous Republicanism and kept it going for decades.
    In May 1966, The UVF carried out three attacks on Catholics in Belfast. In the first, a Protestant civilian (Matilda Gould) died when UVF members tried to firebomb the Catholic-owned pub beside her house but accidentally struck her home. In the second, a Catholic civilian was shot dead as he walked home. In the third, the UVF opened fire on three Catholic civilians as they left a pub, killing one and wounding the other two. At the time, the IRA was not engaged in armed action, and did not until 1970.

    In 1969 a student civil rights group—People's Democracy - held a march between Belfast and Derry and was repeatedly attacked by loyalists. At Burntollet it was ambushed by 200 loyalists and off-duty RUC officers.That night, RUC officers went on a rampage in the Bogside area of Derry; attacking Catholic homes, attacking and threatening residents, and hurling sectarian abuse. Residents then sealed off the Bogside with barricades to keep the police out, creating "Free Derry".

    In 1971, internment without trial was introduced, and on Monday 9 August, 1971, at 4.30am, Irishmen from all over the Six Counties were taken from their homes and interned in Long Kesh concentration camp.Catholics were discriminated against since 1920, were not given equal voting rights or able to own their own home. The RUC regularly harassed Catholic civilians and on several occasions during protests joined loyalist mobs in fighting and beating Catholic civil rights protesters.

    In January 1972 in Derry - Bloody Sunday - The PIRA's greatest propaganda victory.

    These events triggered the re-emergence of the IRA in their splinter groups of the Officials and more radical Provisionals - not this crap you've come up with.

    That is not to include the people he personally murdered, as in the below picture. Colin Nichol, RIP.
    You have no proof that Bobby Sands 'personally murdered' him. He knew as much about bomb-making as you do - he was the part of the ASU handling the 'getaway', which is why he was found with a handgun.

    Bobby Sands never aimed for reconciliation, for understanding, for peace. He worked for death. A truly evil man.
    You know nothing about Bobby Sands.
    Thatcher was truly evil in sending him and 9 others to their deaths while her own MPs and constituents called on her to end the strike, and by ordering the deaths of thousands of sailors on the ARA General Belgrano while in neutral waters.

    He worked at Alexander's Coach Works for less than a year, under constant harassment from his Protestant co-workers, which according to several co-workers he ignored completely, as he wished to learn a meaningful trade. He was eventually confronted after leaving his shift in January 1971 by a number of his colleagues wearing the armbands of the local Ulster loyalist tartan gang. He was held at gunpoint and told that Alexander's was off-limits to "Fenian scum" and to never come back if he valued his life. This event, by Sands' admission, proved to be the point at which he decided that militancy was the only solution.

    Violence was the last resort - what would you do if your parents' home was attacked and damaged by a loyalist mob and they were forced to move - TWICE?

    As I've said before, Bobby did not seek out violence. He was a creature of his time and circumstance and it is barely conceivable to his family that he would have ever seen the inside of a prison cell if it hadn't been for the conflict in which he was caught up. In another time and place, maybe he would simply have become a great poet, politician or – perhaps more likely, a coachbuilder.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Name:  12241197_1495435400760326_2757213281411088734_n.jpg
Views: 158
Size:  49.1 KB
    Memes like that are stupid and simplistic. Could easily make one of those for every party.


    Must say though Cameron will be hard to replace for the Tories. He just looks so 'prime ministerial' and is almost as good as Blair was at the dispatch box. Not that I like him but he's your best asset Imo.

    Osborne on the other hand....
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Name:  12241197_1495435400760326_2757213281411088734_n.jpg
Views: 158
Size:  49.1 KB
    True - something we agree on!

    "The fact that bourgeois labour parties have already been formed in all the advanced capitalist countries and that unless a determined and relentless struggle is waged all along the line against these parties, or groups, trends etc. it is all the same. There can be no question of a struggle against imperialism or of Marxism, or of a socialist labour movement... (wherever Marxism is popular amongst the workers, this political trend, 'this bourgeois labour party' will invoke and swear by" Marxism) - Lenin

    Btw what's your stance on Palestine?
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Memes like that are stupid and simplistic. Could easily make one of those for every party.


    Must say though Cameron will be hard to replace for the Tories. He just looks so 'prime ministerial' and is almost as good as Blair was at the dispatch box. Not that I like him but he's your best asset Imo.

    Osborne on the other hand....
    That's very true I've been looking at that. Only Hilary Benn and John McDonnell (to a smaller extent) actually look prime ministerial - Corbyn? I like him but he doesn't look like a prime minister.
    Then again, I wouldn't have said that about Donald Trump and look where he is
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Memes like that are stupid and simplistic. Could easily make one of those for every party.


    Must say though Cameron will be hard to replace for the Tories. He just looks so 'prime ministerial' and is almost as good as Blair was at the dispatch box. Not that I like him but he's your best asset Imo.

    Osborne on the other hand....
    Why the change of subject, we're talking about Labour here? Practise what you preach.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.