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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    But to be Muslim but also friendly to the LGBT you kind-of have to ignore your religion's tenets, don't you? And that's the point; you can only be a good person in that area by ignoring what your religion teaches, which means that the religion is flawed in that area

    It's not like the link between Islam and homophobia is random and coincidental; polls show that Muslims have much lower levels of tolerance for homosexuality and all the countries that execute gay people are Islamic

    There's a predictable relationship between the two; the more strict and "more Islamic" a person or group is, the more homophobic they tend to be.
    islam does condemn homosexuality but im not homosexual, my friends aren't muslims so their belief is different to mine so theres no point. also if i were to do something that is against christianity or another religion, the believers of that religion wouldn't go "Jesus said that so now i will kill you"

    and islam teaches us to love one another and peace and justice etc, so yh
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    I think the point she is making is until recently (and still in many places of the UK) homsexuality is persecuted, it may no longer receive quite so heavy a sentence, but it is only in recent history that it has become a legal practice, and that's ignoring the widespread hostility in the 70s, 80s, and 90s which saw people get beat up regularly as a way of doing it under the legal radar.
    And I'm saying her point is dishonest. It is dishonest to raise the UK's history of LGBT persecution as a justification for the Islamic world's current attitude to them.

    The West has been evolving towards acceptance, we see no such evolution in the Islamic world and if anything, things are getting worse.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Hear me out? Better to get straight to the facts. Google PEW muslim opinion polls if you want evidence that supports my views on Islam, or have read of the Quran.
    Thank you,Bradly x
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I know right it seems Neoconservative/Jewish/Atheists are very busy booking mosques inviting people over to spout hatred and pretending to be Muslims
    Not a laughing matter :spank:
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    Technically speaking it is compassionate for homosexuals punished by death in this world..it spares them punishment for said sin in the hereafter.
    So a real death is compensated for in the fictional hereafter? I don't think so.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    And I'm saying her point is dishonest. It is dishonest to raise the UK's history of LGBT persecution as a justification for the Islamic world's current attitude to them.

    The West has been evolving towards acceptance, we see no such evolution in the Islamic world and if anything, things are getting worse.
    I do agree with you, but you must understand the attacks made here seem to sugggest some sort of genetic predisposition of Arabs or something under the guise of Islam, Christianity is just as bad in its persecution of homosexuals. Are you that surprised many liberal Muslims in this country are quite annoyed at you calling them and their cultures barbaric because they disagree with homosexuality when it is only until recently that the West has changed its mind?
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    (Original post by sfaraj)
    islam does condemn homosexuality but im not homosexual, my friends aren't muslims so their belief is different to mine so theres no point. also if i were to do something that is against christianity or another religion, the believers of that religion wouldn't go "Jesus said that so now i will kill you"

    and islam teaches us to love one another and peace and justice etc, so yh
    I do think that approach needs to be probed a bit. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good that you are open-minded to your gay friends. This is more from my perspective as an atheist; your religion does call for homosexuals to be executed which I think you intuitively understand is completely unfair.

    So if your religion was to become the dominant one in England and we became an Islamic state, your religion would require that there would be punishments for LGBT people. I suppose what I'm getting at is, doesn't that cause you to question why your religion has that view of homosexuality? And to consider whether it is flawed in that way, and what that flaw implies for it as a whole (and all the monotheistic Yahwehite religions... Islam, Christianity and Judaism)
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    Same-sex marriages were just legalised in the UK in 2014. Before that it was illegal. How horrific
    How does this negate the fact that Islam teaches Gay people should be killed?
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    Are you that surprised many liberal Muslims in this country are quite annoyed at you calling them and their cultures barbaric because they disagree with homosexuality when it is only until recently that the West has changed its mind?
    First of all, it isn't just Islam's attitude to homosexuals that makes it a barbaric set of beliefs.

    Secondly, the west has shown a consistent record in developing its morals, and its society, out of the economic poverty and moral backwardness of the mediaeval period. That involves continually change. Islam, on the other hand has failed to allow its peoples to develop economically, and has left them in the seventh century as far as compassion and decency are concerned.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Not a laughing matter :spank:
    Not for you to decide (you taught me that)

    But yes the belief that impulsion have that all this reporting of facts about their faith and their attitudes is perpetrated by a Neoconservative/Jewish/Atheists/Illuminati/LizardPeople conspiracy is very much a laughing matter.

    But as it's you I'll still have the spanking
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    How does this negate the fact that Islam teaches Gay people should be killed?
    You saying thats it's wrong doesn't change anything either.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    My friend has a pretty healthy libido and in theory someone might find it hot to have so many prospective sexual partners (and Arab guys can be pretty attractive... at least before they hit 30 when they go downhill quickly).

    But the reality is he said it was disgusting, there was something really wrong about the character of their sexual desire for other males. He said it seemed really deformed and repulsive, and vaguely threatening (i.e. they might be violent).

    Presumably he perceived it in that way because it's completely unnatural for men who are normally heterosexual to do that, and so the same-sex desire they have, such as it is, is deformed and mentally ill. The men become less civilised, as if they're just a bunch of dogs on heat rather than human beings.

    Massively ironic given Islam claims to civilise sexual impulses and make people less animalistic. In reality Islam creates mental illness and sickness where healthy sexuality should be
    Yes, venture onto any sex chatroom for Pakistan or other Islamic countries and you'll see what your friend is saying. Lots and lots of people seem to be into incest too (I guess that's what happens when the only pair of tits you get to see are the ones you drank from). And I recall hearing that rape porn is especially popular in Islamic countries.

    The more sex is perceived as dirty, the more dirty it becomes (which, on an entirely different note, is one reason why all consensual sex industry should be legalized).
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    You saying thats it's wrong doesn't change anything either.
    Nope don't get your reply
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    First of all, it isn't just Islam's attitude to homosexuals that makes it a barbaric set of beliefs.

    Secondly, the west has shown a consistent record in developing its morals, and its society, out of the economic poverty and moral backwardness of the mediaeval period. That involves continually change. Islam, on the other hand has failed to allow its peoples to develop economically, and has left them in the seventh century as far as compassion and decency are concerned.
    Are you sure it's Islam and not lack of resources, technlogy and wealth in general? Saudi, Qatar, all seem pretty rich to me. It's not an economic argument clearly, but one of values, and while there are numerous abuses in the Arab world i'd like to draw attention to (disgusting treatment of animals and dogs is one of them) these are equally explained by backwards technology and lack of exposure to education (notice how these views are more in rural areas, in India for example as well).

    Arguably some radical sects of Islam do prevent such exposure, but so do Christian ones. There's just no gap for them to exploit because our governments are stronger and have more loyalty from strong people.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Not for you to decide (you taught me that)

    But yes the belief that impulsion have that all this reporting of facts about their faith and their attitudes is perpetrated by a Neoconservative/Jewish/Atheists/Illuminati/LizardPeople conspiracy is very much a laughing matter.

    But as it's you I'll still have the spanking
    I don't see anyone else talking about the Jewish conspiracy here but you. I didn't have you down as a member of the tin foil hat gang
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    You saying thats it's wrong doesn't change anything either.
    So we shouldn't say anything at all?

    Actually it does change things. If the Western world agreed with the Islamic world that homosexuality was wrong and should be punished with death, then things would 100% not be likely to change.

    As it is, we can at least embarrass them with their barbarity and many young people in the Islamic world look to the West and see how we don't persecute LGBT. They also see the Western world's freedom for just an ordinary guy and girl to be with each other and to practice normal and healthy heterosexuality

    In comparing the barbarity of the Islamic world's view of sexuality against the West's approach, they can see how wrong it is and attitudes are changed. Over time it is those changing attitudes that will lead to real change
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I don't see anyone else talking about the Jewish conspiracy here but you. I didn't have you down as a member of the tin foil hat gang
    Then you need to look harder. I was after all replying to a different poster
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    I do think that approach needs to be probed a bit. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good that you are open-minded to your gay friends. This is more from my perspective as an atheist; your religion does call for homosexuals to be executed which I think you intuitively understand is completely unfair.

    So if your religion was to become the dominant one in England and we became an Islamic state, your religion would require that there would be punishments for LGBT people. I suppose what I'm getting at is, doesn't that cause you to question why your religion has that view of homosexuality? And to consider whether it is flawed in that way, and what that flaw implies for it as a whole (and all the monotheistic Yahwehite religions... Islam, Christianity and Judaism)
    good point, but im not an lgbt supporter but nor am i homophobic, personally i just don't care. sure my religion says no but i dont feel affected so i don't take lgbt into consideration. also it depends on how tight your belief is for that controversial topic, if someone was lgbt but not muslim then idk but if they were muslim lgbt then still idk

    i dont think its right to punish lgbt people, its a personal decision and punishments can only be given by god (ik your atheist but yh you get me) if someone if lgbt so leave them, my school has an lgbt society, is full of muslims but i have still not seen any homophobic behaviour so....yh
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    My point is that you also come from a culture that didn't like homosexual peeps. Well you didn't, your ancestors or relatives certainly did.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ties.gayrights
    Right, but my culture is no longer like that, it hasn't hung gay people for at least 150 years, and I'm very glad about that, so what is this feeble attempt at whataboutery attempting to refute?
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    (Original post by Virgili)
    Are you sure it's Islam and not lack of resources, technlogy and wealth in general? Saudi, Qatar, all seem pretty rich to me
    That's pure luck they happened to be on top of massive oil reserves.

    Wait and see how things change after the West develops fusion energy and moves over to electric cars. The Arab oil countries haven't developed a real, productive underlying economy and mostly blow their money on luxuries.

    So within a generation after the West stops needing oil, the Arab oil countries will sink back into poverty as they lack all the underlying necessities (technological innovation, intellectual freedom, etc) for a productive 21st century economy.
 
 
 
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