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    There needs to be better job opportunities so they don't see prostitution as their only option.

    Most of us can agree there isn't anything 'right' about prostitution
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    I gave my reasoning, in most cases I don't believe someone freely decides to become a prostitute. You cannot compare prostitution to working at Mc Donalds because by saying that you're are undermining the normality of sex. An exchange for sex isn't the same as handing over a happy meal, is it? You don't reproduce by eating chicken nuggets, do you? You can't be intimate by eating a cheese burger, can you? it's not the same. Sex is natural, people do it all the time, by selling something that nature intended for you to do anyway most likely kills the pleasure and normality of sex for prostitutes. I believe it affects them more personally than a job in Mc Donald's does, even if they grew up not wanting to work there are purely do it for the money.

    Making it out like it's just like any other job is wrong, it's not.
    I think a lot of prostitues freely decide to become a prostitue, I am not disagreeing what you are saying that it is morally wrong but a lot of prostitues would choose to be a prostitute over a retail job. Mainly because prostitues make x10 more than what retail jobs would make. So it is really down to the money.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Also I don't even know if I can call myself a feminist anymore. I won't call myself an egalitarian either, because I've always hated those people "I'm not feminism, I'm an egalitarian"

    I believe in equality, but 3rd wave feminism has many things wrong with it, mostly it's priorities... and whilst I agree mostly with 2nd Wave, I'm not a middle class white woman. 1st wave is obviously I agree with as it was the birth of the movement...so yeah...

    I'm not labelling myself anything.
    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Stop it, you know I didn't mean it like that

    Tbf I was getting bit annoyed XD
    I just thought it was funny and made the comment based off of that. I wasn't planning on debating you or anything
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    (Original post by Mazzy95)
    Well exactly - thus the legalization of regulated brothels and selling sex within escorting services would hopefully be safer for prostitutes as they wouldn't have to go out in the streets or invite people back to their personal homes.
    Yes but the opening post was should we make prostitution legal..... It already is. Should we adapt that law wasn't in the post


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Yes but the opening post was should we make prostitution legal..... It already is. Should we adapt that law wasn't in the post


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    A tad pedantic. I was agreeing with your post, not stating that the original post was accurate in it's questioning.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I am good friends with a prostitute and she actually says she enjoys it and doesn't feel a lack of self-respect for doing it, nor does she find it humiliating. So, by definition, in no way can she be said to be degrading herself. I'm sure many escorts feel this way, and the same certainly goes for a lot of porn stars. Moreover, if some prostitutes do find it humiliating, this is surely due to the social stigma related to it, which could be alleviated by it becoming seen as more respectable.That is just your entirely subjective opinion. Could you define what you mean by "exploitation" and explain how it differs in this instance from any and all exchanges it could ubiquitously be applied to (for example, paying someone to deliver pizzas, where they are being used as nothing more than a transportation/delivery device)?This is almost exactly the same argument many people use against homosexual relationships or gay marriage (in that it "degrades" marriage). Why should the whole world have to adhere to how you personally feel sex should be?
    My opinion is my opinion, exploitation for me is the fact that these women (ok some are willing to) are placing their bodies up to be misused as though it's a business proposition or transaction rather than a body. That's my view you can think what you like.
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    (Original post by _Charlotte15)
    My opinion is my opinion, exploitation for me is the fact that these women (ok some are willing to) are placing their bodies up to be misused as though it's a business proposition or transaction rather than a body. That's my view you can think what you like.
    Hi,
    Just wanted to let you know there was an article in today's Times by Janice Turner that was very very pro the Nordic model ie very much in agreement with you.

    It certainly made me think. However the main problem I had with it is that the women described in the article were most definitely not my personal experience.
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    Funnily enough the quality of porn is so brilliant nowadays that some of the time I just get the escort to show me porn on my iPad and then do a bit of cleaning in her sexy outfit and whatnot.

    That's not too degrading is it?
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    I think a lot of prostitues freely decide to become a prostitue, I am not disagreeing what you are saying that it is morally wrong but a lot of prostitues would choose to be a prostitute over a retail job. Mainly because prostitues make x10 more than what retail jobs would make. So it is really down to the money.

    While money is the obvious reason for prostitutes from poor countries ,in the case of the English women I've been with it seems to be more likely to be either because they are genuine sluts or just plain lazy.*

    That's not a criticism. I myself am incredibly lazy.


    *Im referring to escorts here NOT the poor desperate women who work the streets and have been abused for much of their lives.
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    How is allowing people to do something oppressive?
    Forcing someone into something is, telling someone they can't do something is oppressive but giving someone the choice is not.

    Is there really a big difference between prostitution and someone who simply dates a rich person for the money?
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    Here's my favourite experience which I think has some bearing on some of the comments.

    One night a very attractive ,very smartly dressed 25 or 26 year old English escort turned up at my house. I didn't choose her as I wasn't online at the time.

    Anyway I always ask the woman why she does what she does as I really don't want to exploit anyone -honest!Plus I want the mobile phone numbers of the 4 %of genuine nymphomaniacs.

    And she said that she does it for the money and she owns two hairdressing shops and wants to be as wealthy as possible by the time she's 30.

    Now this could of course have been a lie but I got the distinct impression that it was true. Anyway we started talking about money and during the course of the conversation she said that poor people are just lazy.

    Now this got me a bit excited not least because my mother was always poor but always working. So things got a bit heated.

    Then she turned to me and said, " What do you do then anyway "

    And I said "Well believe it or not I bet on football for a living"

    And she said,without missing a beat mind,

    "Ha!Well that's not something you will be able to tell your grandchildren is it?"

    Bloody hell.I knew women don't rate gamblers but I didn't realise just how low down we rate.
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    (Original post by _Charlotte15)
    My opinion is my opinion, exploitation for me is the fact that these women (ok some are willing to) are placing their bodies up to be misused as though it's a business proposition or transaction rather than a body. That's my view you can think what you like.
    In that rational all physical labour is the same


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    It already is legal, except street walking and brothel keeping. I'm not in favour of legalising street walking as it's less safe for sex workers, however there is an argument for legalising brothel keeping as it could do a better job of keeping the sex workers safe.
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    (Original post by ellie0497)
    There needs to be better job opportunities so they don't see prostitution as their only option.

    Most of us can agree there isn't anything 'right' about prostitution
    Many do it out of choice, not because it's their only option. And I don't think you speak for "most of us" in any shape or form. Whether it's right or not is just your own personal opinion.
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    The real debate is over whether we should adopt the Nordic model (which only decriminalises the selling of sex) or whether we should decriminalise all aspects of the sex industry.

    I'm about 65% credent that we should decriminalise all aspects of the sex industry. Supporters of the Nordic model argue that it has reduced the scale of the industry (usually citing a 2010 report by the Swedish government, which could not establish causation), whilst decriminalisation (in New Zealand, for instance), has increased its scale.

    Both assertions are disputed by supporters of full decriminalisation. and they may argue that sex work is more tolerable as a result of full decriminalisation, so even if decriminalisation has led to an increase in the scale of the sex industry, this is not necessarily a large mark against full decriminalisation.

    A study backed by the New Zealand government found that while not everything has got better due to decriminalisation in New Zealand, it has also not got worse, and that for some sex workers, things had improved, and that there is no evidence to suggest that prostitution increased since decriminalisation in any case.

    A report by the Christchurch School of Medicine found that some sex workers felt that decriminalisation had made their lives a lot better, and some didn't see a change. Thus, the net impact for those working in the industry seems to be positive.

    In Rhode Island, where indoor prostitution was accidentally decriminalised, rape and STD prevalence fell indoors, despite no other crime seeing the same decline, suggesting that the decline was not due to increased policing, for example. A plausible explanation is that, as supporters of full decriminalisation argue, sex workers have more control, are less rushed and are less stressed.

    Conclusion

    A reduction in the scale of the sex industry is probably a good thing, but this is not certain. There seems to be scanty evidence that the Nordic model has actually reduced the scale, and scanty evidence that full decriminalisation has increased the scale, and even if it has, this may not be as bad as it seems. On top of that, decriminalisation in New Zealand seems to have led to some improvements in some areas. So, overall, I would favour the full decriminalisation of the sex industry.

    As Amnesty International, however, found, legalisation would be a bad option:

    If sex work is legalized, it means that the state makes very specific laws and policies that formally regulate sex work. This can lead to a two tier system where many sex workers operate outside these regulations and are still criminalised - often the most marginalised street based sex workers. Decriminalization places greater control into the hands of sex workers to operate independently, self-organise in informal cooperatives and control their own working environments in a way that legalization often does not.

    During our consultation with sex workers, most of those we spoke to supported decriminalization but were frequently nervous about the implications of legalization. This was not only because of their mistrust of law enforcement authorities but also because of fears that if the wrong model of legalization is adopted, it may disempower them or even lead to criminalization and abuse.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Hi,
    Just wanted to let you know there was an article in today's Times by Janice Turner that was very very pro the Nordic model ie very much in agreement with you.

    It certainly made me think. However the main problem I had with it is that the women described in the article were most definitely not my personal experience.
    And your point is? I don't know what I'm supposed to respond to that, your clearly in favour of it, but from your previous post I'm inclined to think your just taking the mickey.
 
 
 
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