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    (Original post by kabbage)
    I've seen a lot of posts about how immigrants are taking our jobs and how the British end up unemployed. This is wrong on so many levels mostly because people refuse to look on both sides of the argument.

    It's clear that these jobs are always on low pay jobs that don't require a qualification. I haven't seen an immigrant with a medical degree ever come from another country and become a doctor in a British hospital. I have friends who moved here and who's parents have qualifications, however find it very difficult to get a job in their field and end up taking low paid jobs.

    The jobs that these immigrants are taking are low paid jobs, so the problem isn't the immigrants, it's the lack of education in this country.

    Additionally, immigrants tend to make jobs. One of my friends immigrated here and set up a business which ended up employing hundreds of people. Immigrants can be job creators.
    Not the greatest argument I have ever read for immigration.

    Whatever. The point surely is that it ought to be possible to CONTROL immigration, and allow in those who will be of benefit to the country. So highly skilled people get in, unskilled Eastern Europeans don't.

    But we can't do that while we remain in the EU, and even if we left it would require some very difficult negotiations.

    Those who argue for unlimited immigration need to understand that it is a numbers game. And the consequence of successive government's inability to get a grip on this (not only caused by EU membership, Blair didn't impose controls on Eastern European unlike almost everyone else) will negatively impact on them.

    Unless of course they already own a property and don't intend to ever use the NHS...
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    No, it will not.
    McDonalds and Starbucks pay low wages because the work can be done by anyone and there will always be people who need a job.

    It has nothing to do with immigration.
    The only, slight fly in the ointment of your argument is that I use Starbucks every day, all over the place and I can count the number of non immigrant staff on the fingers of one hand.

    Seriously. There are hardly any. It is extraordinary. They do a good job mostly, but they are not native English speakers, that is for sure.
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    (Original post by ULT)
    Don't ask him that, its too complex for his frail old brain to understand.
    Its comical when people blame the immigrants for EVERYTHING like they are second class citizens.

    (Original post by paul514)
    Migrants don't effect my profession and neither am I talking about individual professions I'm talking in the main about unskilled labour
    No i did not direct it at you (i see how it came across like that) i was also speaking in general. You however dont have a reply i would not bother correcting my grammar you know full well what i said.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    So if there are 70 workers for 80 jobs then the companies don't compete for them?
    If you seriously think companies like Mcdonalds will have a auction for uneducated workers you are having a LAUGH. Even if all the immigrants left, there will still be more supply than demand. I seriously cannot believe you are 31 with such childish views. Did you get a education or did you miss that part out?
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Its comical when people blame the immigrants for EVERYTHING like they are second class citizens.
    Loool trust me, i dont think he's educated at all

    He's simple minded and cannot fathom that these problems are much more complex. His little mind can't process that.

    Classic bigot.
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    (Original post by ULT)
    lol a Trump supporter talking about education here
    So like 30-40% of Americans are all stupid? I think what you just said suggests a lot more about a lack of education. Also, I doubt that there are many 'uneducated' people on TSR, including you probably.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    If you seriously think companies like Mcdonalds will have a auction for uneducated workers you are having a LAUGH. Even if all the immigrants left, there will still be more supply than demand. I seriously cannot believe you are 31 with such childish views. Did you get a education or did you miss that part out?
    If all the immigrants left then all those low aid jobs would be filled by non immigrants.

    What is wrong with that?

    Why do we hoover in graduates from Poland and Romania to do unskilled work and pay dole to people who could very easily ask "do you want fries with that?"

    But prefer to sit on their arses and let the Poles do all the work?

    We need to combine immigration controls with welfare reform. Sorted!
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Is that not partly because we are moving increasingly away from factory type work into more of a service sector economy?
    There could indeed simply be fewer factory jobs to go around. In fact, I'm sure you're right as the UK manufactures a fraction of what it did in the 1970's and 1980's. But I think my point still largely stands.

    Let's take the construction industry as an example. It's an industry that provides a million plus skilled jobs - carpenters, bricklayers, plasterers etc. Many of those occupations have been subjected to downward wage pressure as a result of more workers coming in from the EU. That's not the sole cause but it's certainly a major drag on wages.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    If you seriously think companies like Mcdonalds will have a auction for uneducated workers you are having a LAUGH. Even if all the immigrants left, there will still be more supply than demand. I seriously cannot believe you are 31 with such childish views. Did you get a education or did you miss that part out?
    There are far more than 2 million migrants in the uk over 600,000 people just from the eu registered for a national insurance number last year

    Edit - 2 million is the number of unemployed people in the uk

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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    If all the immigrants left then all those low aid jobs would be filled by non immigrants.

    What is wrong with that?

    Why do we hoover in graduates from Poland and Romania to do unskilled work and pay dole to people who could very easily ask "do you want fries with that?"

    But prefer to sit on their arses and let the Poles do all the work?

    We need to combine immigration controls with welfare reform. Sorted!
    It's a simple dynamic. The average monthly salary in Poland and Romania is 756 and 423 euros respectively. The average in the UK is 2337 euros. So working in the UK, even in low skilled jobs, is extremely attractive for Poles and Romanians. For Brits, low skilled jobs often don't pay as much as they can get from sitting at home on welfare doing FA all day. Absolutely, welfare needs complete reform.
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    I agree. I think the main problem lies with the people. They claim that immigrants come and take their jobs, but the truth is, they're doing jobs that no British person wants to do. It's a superiority complex that is quintessentially British. We won't do the menial jobs, as we feel that we are above it. Personally, as long as it puts food on the table I'd do it.

    Another problem is the training and treatment of professionals in this country. Yes, this country's professionals are expertly trained, but they are treated like an outcast, especially doctors and teachers. The most selfless people in this country, and best trained, are being insulted and treated in the most abhorrent way. They are all packing up and leaving, which is allowing trained people to come into this country and replace them. The problem lies with the people's idol nature and the governments lack of appreciation towards the most selfless, best qualified people in this country.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    If all the immigrants left then all those low aid jobs would be filled by non immigrants.

    What is wrong with that?

    Why do we hoover in graduates from Poland and Romania to do unskilled work and pay dole to people who could very easily ask "do you want fries with that?"

    But prefer to sit on their arses and let the Poles do all the work?

    We need to combine immigration controls with welfare reform. Sorted!
    Because these people do NOT want to work. Immigrants come from countries were even £1 is alot of money and they are thankful for even jobs such as toilet cleaning because they can send money home.

    Natives just moan about the job as they dont see it as "up to their standard" why do you think these employers hire immigrants? You answered your own statement "Prefer to sit on their arses and let the immigrants do the work"

    (Original post by paul514)
    There are far more than 2 million migrants in the uk over 600,000 people just from the eu registered for a national insurance number last year

    Edit - 2 million is the number of unemployed people in the uk
    Okay lets kick them all out - I would love to see how the UK fares. Some of the highest earners and tax payers in this country are "immigrants" you illiterate ****. I will use the car cleaning example again - They make money from that albeit They make very little, the native wont do that because scrounging on benefits is far more relaxing then getting up at 6am and washing cars you cant afford. Do you know how degrading it is for them to do these jobs - Do they moan? No.
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    Single mothers are the problem.

    They can only exist because of a welfare state and will raise low IQ criminals and cost the taxpayer billions.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Because these people do NOT want to work. Immigrants come from countries were even £1 is alot of money and they are thankful for even jobs such as toilet cleaning because they can send money home.

    Natives just moan about the job as they dont see it as "up to their standard" why do you think these employers hire immigrants? You answered your own statement "Prefer to sit on their arses and let the immigrants do the work"



    Okay lets kick them all out - I would love to see how the UK fares. Some of the highest earners and tax payers in this country are "immigrants" you illiterate ****. I will use the car cleaning example again - They make money from that albeit They make very little, the native wont do that because scrounging on benefits is far more relaxing then getting up at 6am and washing cars you cant afford. Do you know how degrading it is for them to do these jobs - Do they moan? No.
    And I said kick them all out where? I'm in favour of immigration, controlled immigration we don't need to import people to do low skilled jobs we have plenty of people who are able and willing to do them.

    We have 2 million unemployed people and 3 - 5 million people depending on which source you want to choose who want to work more hours.

    Your assertion that people who are unemployed or underemployed don't want to work is stupid and offensive.


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    Immigrants aren't the problem - It's the xenophobic and lazy people that are the problem
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    (Original post by JSmiggy)
    I agree. I think the main problem lies with the people. They claim that immigrants come and take their jobs, but the truth is, they're doing jobs that no British person wants to do. It's a superiority complex that is quintessentially British. We won't do the menial jobs, as we feel that we are above it. Personally, as long as it puts food on the table I'd do it.

    Another problem is the training and treatment of professionals in this country. Yes, this country's professionals are expertly trained, but they are treated like an outcast, especially doctors and teachers. The most selfless people in this country, and best trained, are being insulted and treated in the most abhorrent way. They are all packing up and leaving, which is allowing trained people to come into this country and replace them. The problem lies with the people's idol nature and the governments lack of appreciation towards the most selfless, best qualified people in this country.
    I think your first paragraph is an oversimplification. Immigrants don't ONLY do the jobs hat no British person wants to do. The don't just work the low skilled "low wage jobs. As I've already mentioned many immigrants, especially EU immigrants, come to do skilled work, for instance as construction workers. And it's here, in these skilled areas and on into the professional areas that wages are driven down.

    As to your second paragraph, I'll leave my thoughts on teachers and doctors off the table.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    And I said kick them all out where? I'm in favour of immigration, controlled immigration we don't need to import people to do low skilled jobs we have plenty of people who are able and willing to do them.

    We have 2 million unemployed people and 3 - 5 million people depending on which source you want to choose who want to work more hours.

    Your assertion that people who are unemployed or underemployed don't want to work is stupid and offensive.
    Well thats what it came across as, and we wouldnt need to if the native actually did the work in the first place.

    Yeah you have said this before, and out of the 3-5 million how many are native? And how many are immigrants? Out of the 2 million un-employed how many are willing to do the labour (clean toilets, serve fries?)

    Its not an assertion, im just sick of people acting like "immigrants" are the problem for everything. People treat people who werent born in England like second class citizens. They are not too blame for anything, if anything alot of the "immigrants" are contributing more to England then some of these racist natives will earn in their life time. That is what pisses me off. Stop ****ing complaining about "immigrants" this and that get a job or get a better qualification or make your own job. They manage to do it why cant the native????
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Well thats what it came across as, and we wouldnt need to if the native actually did the work in the first place.

    Yeah you have said this before, and out of the 3-5 million how many are native? And how many are immigrants? Out of the 2 million un-employed how many are willing to do the labour (clean toilets, serve fries?)

    Its not an assertion, im just sick of people acting like "immigrants" are the problem for everything. People treat people who werent born in England like second class citizens. They are not too blame for anything, if anything alot of the "immigrants" are contributing more to England then some of these racist natives will earn in their life time. That is what pisses me off. Stop ****ing complaining about "immigrants" this and that get a job or get a better qualification or make your own job. They manage to do it why cant the native????
    It wasn't how it came across it was how you wanted to perceive it because of your preconceptions of people who don't have a pro unfettered migration stance.

    How do you expect me to quantify how many unemployed/under employed are migrants?

    What relevance does it even have? I'm not griping about unemployed migrants almost all of them come here to work.

    Also I don't blame individual migrants for anything I blame the system that doesn't discriminate between which migrants are needed and which aren't.

    Also you made an assertion we need migrants for unskilled jobs..... Any evidence for that?


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Also I don't blame individual migrants for anything I blame the system that doesn't discriminate between which migrants are needed and which aren't.

    Also you made an assertion we need migrants for unskilled jobs..... Any evidence for that?
    You have this assumption that im talking about you as an individual, i frankly do not care if YOU do or do not blame them im talking about the masses of people against immigration.

    What evidence do you need? Do you not go outside your house? Its not about "we" its about the owners of the business. If they want migrants over British people then its their choice. Their business their rules not the rules of some uneducated morons who think they have an entitlement to every and any job.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    Well thats what it came across as, and we wouldnt need to if the native actually did the work in the first place.

    Yeah you have said this before, and out of the 3-5 million how many are native? And how many are immigrants? Out of the 2 million un-employed how many are willing to do the labour (clean toilets, serve fries?)

    Its not an assertion, im just sick of people acting like "immigrants" are the problem for everything. People treat people who werent born in England like second class citizens. They are not too blame for anything, if anything alot of the "immigrants" are contributing more to England then some of these racist natives will earn in their life time. That is what pisses me off. Stop ****ing complaining about "immigrants" this and that get a job or get a better qualification or make your own job. They manage to do it why cant the native????
    Your brazen racism is becoming a real bore. It's amazing to me how you can make sweeping generalization after generalization about all these bone idle n'er do well natives. If anybody were to generalise in such a way about immigrants your face would melt so why do you think you have a license to stuff millions of Brits in a box marked "5hit"?
 
 
 
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