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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    There IS NO REFORM. THERE IS NO REFORM. THERE IS NO REFORM
    Yes there has been you half-wit. Caps locking doesn't make it true, look:

    Historical reforms.
    • EU legislation now requires approval by the European Parliament as well as by national ministers in the Council. This is a double-check on anything the EU adopts.
    • Before any proposal is debated by ministers, national parliaments have prior scrutiny (instead of hearing about it afterwards!). Each national parliament has eight weeks to instruct their ministers before they go to Brussels to discuss the proposal.
    • The Council must now deliberate on legislation and vote in public.
    • There is a right of access for the public to EU documents (‘freedom of information’).
    • The Commission President is elected by the European Parliament, straight after European elections. The Commission as a whole can only take office with parliamentary approval, and it can be dismissed by Parliament.
    • There is now an EU Ombudsman, a right of petition for citizens, and a right for the Parliament to set up committees of inquiry into cases of EU maladministration.
    • The EU is legally obliged to respect fundamental rights in everything it does.

    http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/reforming-the-eu/

    The EU is CONTINUOUSLY reforming in an ongoing process. Whats preventing a good deal of reform are parties like ukip and the tories that abscond or block all measures.


    Rest is utter conjecture. Uncertainty?? Tell me what the EU will look like in 5 years? 10 years? Turkey?
    Even if it wanted to (Which it doesnt) turkey would not be able to join as EU expansion has been blocked for at least 5 years by the Juncker administration*. Any country that wants to join needs the full backing of all 28 states. The idea that eastern countries like Poland or Hungary will allow Turkey in is madness.

    The fact that ukip are bringing up Turkey just shows how meaningless their argument is (or rather, how unattractive their free market libertarian model is to the population)





    *http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/politics-juncker.x29
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    It is. Economic analysis heavily steeped in bias no doubt.
    No i dont think you understand what uncertainty means.. its not because businesses are scared of us voting leave... its that they dont know if we are going to vote leave. BIG DIFFERENCE.

    To portray it as businesses are scared we will leave investment has dropped is pure aids narrative. Its that they DO NOT KNOW what the outcome will be.

    Yes I have just made my points, you're talking out your ass to back your agenda - Feel free to answer mine in my previous post
    Please just admit that everything you've been saying is guesswork and you really have nothing of value to add to this discussion. You literally have no idea what you're talking about - even if we vote to leave the negationations will take years causing years of yes, UNCERTAINTY. Also would be interested to see exactly where you think I implied why I think businesses are concerned?

    You haven't made any points, you're just trashing mine with - wait for it - pure conjecture. The hypocrisy is killing me.
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    Bornblue: Don't forget, these are the people we're dealing with:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1M26Q4FBVs
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Yes there has been you half-wit. Caps locking doesn't make it true, look:

    Historical reforms.
    • EU legislation now requires approval by the European Parliament as well as by national ministers in the Council. This is a double-check on anything the EU adopts.
    • Before any proposal is debated by ministers, national parliaments have prior scrutiny (instead of hearing about it afterwards!). Each national parliament has eight weeks to instruct their ministers before they go to Brussels to discuss the proposal.
    • The Council must now deliberate on legislation and vote in public.
    • There is a right of access for the public to EU documents (‘freedom of information’).
    • The Commission President is elected by the European Parliament, straight after European elections. The Commission as a whole can only take office with parliamentary approval, and it can be dismissed by Parliament.
    • There is now an EU Ombudsman, a right of petition for citizens, and a right for the Parliament to set up committees of inquiry into cases of EU maladministration.
    • The EU is legally obliged to respect fundamental rights in everything it does.
    http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/reforming-the-eu/

    The EU is CONTINUOUSLY reforming in an ongoing process. Whats preventing a good deal of reform are parties like ukip and the tories that abscond or block all measures.




    Even if it wanted to (Which it doesnt) turkey would not be able to join as EU expansion has been blocked for at least 5 years by the Juncker administration*. Any country that wants to join needs the full backing of all 28 states. The idea that eastern countries like Poland or Hungary will allow Turkey in is madness.

    The fact that ukip are bringing up Turkey just shows how meaningless their argument is (or rather, how unattractive their free market libertarian model is to the population)





    *http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/politics-juncker.x29
    By reform.. i meant the UK getting changes to things its people want like yano controlling its borders or limiting benefits to new arrivals. I wasn't saying the EU fat cats never change anything.. got to try and justify their bloated salaries somehow i guess

    Turkey has the EU by the balls, you really think if one or two countries rejected their admission to the EU, the EU wouldn't over rule it if it decided best... Its what the EU does

    "Hey little confused country, you change your vote to let Turkey join or we punish you" Easy
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Bornblue: Don't forget, these are the people we're dealing with:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1M26Q4FBVs
    Listening to those sorts of callers makes me lose faith in democracy.
    It's absurd really.
    Hazzer has claimed that the EU health and safety regulations are hurting small businesses and goes on about red tape yet like so many kippers and tories, can't tell me a single piece of red tape he disagrees with or why its bad.

    They go on about these laws we can't make, but won't tell us what they are.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It is about specific regulation!!!! Its is about our sovereignty and the sovereignty of the national parliament
    to make regulation that affect us as a country only ....... For example i disargee with the entire EU Health and safety directive because it affects the smallest of businesses unfairly ... when we could easily pass another Health and safety Act in our national Parliament
    What do you mean it's not about specific legislation? Of course it is. You argued that Eu regulation is hurting small businesses. Well which regulation specifically? Which laws? Which red tape?

    You have no idea, you really don't. You claim the EU is hurting small businesses with health and safety regulations but can't name a single one that does.

    Do you realise how absurd that is? It would be like someone saying 'tory education policy is bad', without being able to cite a single policy they disagree with.

    The answer is you don't know and you're trying to cover up that lack of knowledge by saying 'the whole thing'.
    You're saying the EU health directive harms small businesses, how does it do that? Which laws in particular harm them? How do they harm them?

    Be precises, you're making an argument and not offering the slightest bit of evidence for your point.
    Be precise.

    Tell me which health and safety regulations you disagree with and why you disagree with them and how exactly they harm small businesses.[/QUOTE]

    Here's one ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/33 ) It's part of the EU Health and safety directive and it's on lifts ....

    And another on aerosols ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/40 )

    One of noise ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/82 )

    There are many parts of the EU health and safety directive that are petty and useless that affect the smallest of businesses ? why should the EU makes theses types of regulations that affect the smallest the businesses ... Now tell me " Why can't our national parliament makes theses regulations
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    By reform.. i meant the UK getting changes to things its people want like yano controlling its borders or limiting benefits to new arrivals. I wasn't saying the EU fat cats never change anything.. got to try and justify their bloated salaries somehow i guess
    Well, Cameron has got a change in benefits. They wont reform borders because thats a fundamental right and reason of the EU...

    Turkey has the EU by the balls, you really think if one or two countries rejected their admission to the EU, the EU wouldn't over rule it if it decided best... Its what the EU does

    "Hey little confused country, you change your vote to let Turkey join or we punish you" Easy
    Could you give an example of them doing that?
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)

    Here's one ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/33 ) It's part of the EU Health and safety directive and it's on lifts ....

    And another on aerosols ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/40 )

    One of noise ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/82 )

    There are many parts of the EU health and safety directive that are petty and useless that affect the smallest of businesses ? why should the EU makes theses types of regulations that affect the smallest the businesses ... Now tell me " Why can't our national parliament makes theses regulations
    Let me get this straight, you disagree with health and safety regulations on lifts, aerosols and potentially deafening noises?
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    you're*
    :facepalm:

    Ouch.

    I can't believe I done that.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    :facepalm:

    Ouch.

    I can't believe I done that.
    Need to go take a long, hard look at yourself.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Let me get this straight, you disagree with health and safety regulations on lifts, aerosols and potentially deafening noises?
    I've haven't read the whole health and safety directives .... theses are some of the petty EU health and safety regulations that i disagree with
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)


    Here's one ( https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/33 ) It's part of the EU Health and safety directive and it's on lifts ....
    So having safe lifts is terrible? Do you not think businesses which have lifts should make sure they are fit to work and not dangerous?

    So you're oppsoed to aerosol dispensers being allowed to be marketed? Why is that bad? Deary me this is desperate stuff..
    So you're opposed to workers hearing being protected from extremely loud noises?


    Deary me. So you want to leave the EU so out lifts can be less safe and workers are more at risk from suffering damage to their hearing?

    This is hilarious and scary in equal measure. That this is the basis of you wanting to leave the EU...

    You want to leave the EU so we can have less safe lifts?
    Do you not think people who work in small businesses should be entitled to feel safe when they use a lift?

    You really have no idea, you can't tell me a single policy which hurts small businesses.

    There are many parts of the EU health and safety directive that are petty and useless that affect the smallest of businesses ? why should the EU makes theses types of regulations that affect the smallest the businesses ... Now tell me " Why can't our national parliament makes theses regulations[/QUOTE]
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    I've haven't read the whole health and safety directives .... theses are some of the petty EU health and safety regulations that i disagree with
    SO you haven't even read them!?? Yet you claim they are hurting small businesses.
    You disagree with safe lifts and protection from deafening noises? Deary me what a shoddy, appalling argument you're making.

    You have simply googled health and safety regulation and picked three random ones and can't tell me why they are bad.

    So you think having safe lifts and protection from deafening noises is 'petty'?

    Sigh.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Need to go take a long, hard look at yourself.
    The apparent hypocrisy I present, in front of all to see. :cry2:

    You're not very consoling and considerate.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    I've haven't read the whole health and safety directives .... theses are some of the petty EU health and safety regulations that i disagree with
    Why do you disagree with them if their only purpose is to protect workers and consumers?

    I wouldn't call health and safety regulations on something as potentially dangerous as an elevator petty
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Why do you disagree with them if their only purpose is to protect workers and consumers?

    I wouldn't call health and safety regulations on something as potentially dangerous as an elevator petty
    Aye, there's plenty of reasons to dislike the EU. The fact that they ensure we have safe elevators is not one of them.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Why do you disagree with them if their only purpose is to protect workers and consumers?
    y
    Untrammeled capitalist egoism.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Well, Cameron has got a change in benefits. They wont reform borders because thats a fundamental right and reason of the EU...



    Could you give an example of them doing that?
    The EU breaking rules and moving goalposts to get its way? Im sure there are hundreds, the one thats springs to mind is withdrawing the dublin convention and blackmailing countries to accept quotas of "refugees". I am not aware if the countries that rejected this were subject to massive fines and punishment although remember reading about it

    Unlimited power, answer to no one
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    (Original post by nverjvlev)
    Please just admit that everything you've been saying is guesswork and you really have nothing of value to add to this discussion. You literally have no idea what you're talking about - even if we vote to leave the negationations will take years causing years of yes, UNCERTAINTY. Also would be interested to see exactly where you think I implied why I think businesses are concerned?

    You haven't made any points, you're just trashing mine with - wait for it - pure conjecture. The hypocrisy is killing me.
    So you think its conjecture and guesswork to say the treasuries figures are steeped in bias (Who are pro Stay and have just spent £9.3m of taxpayers £'s on STAY propaganda) that the average family will be £4300 a year worse off by 2030

    The same treasurer who cant even forecast accurately 3 months down the line, never mind something for 2030. The same guy who revises his forecasts every 6 months. The Treasury who's economic forecasts have been shambolic

    I have even seen some pro EU folk criticising his forecast lol
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Bornblue: Don't forget, these are the people we're dealing with:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1M26Q4FBVs
    I can't listen, it's too cringy.
 
 
 
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