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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    That makes no sense...if Allah was evil then why would we worship him??
    And don't ask me, I'm not that religious anymore.
    Good question, if I believed Allah was real I'd say the answer is in your question. He wants to be worshipped.

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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    That makes no sense...if Allah was evil then why would we worship him??
    And don't ask me, I'm not that religious anymore.
    People worship whatever they want. Allah, Jesus, idols, multiple gods.
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    (Original post by macsalaama)
    You're biased and selective yourself. Shias use hadiths too and practices like Mutah which Sunnis seem to despise was in fact allowed by Muhammad himself at a point. Whether it was abolished or not is where the difference lies. That's just one example.

    As I said, the doctor analogy is pretty weird and I don't see how it's comparable. Maybe use a historian or other academic profession.

    The rulings were made by men, to be implemented by men so they can dictate men (and women).
    Going along with the example you gave, what's your thoughts on apostasy and should those who leave Islam be sentenced to death?

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    You're biased and selective yourself.

    Mutah is not part of islam, nor there is any authentic hadeeth.

    If all the conditions are met then the punishment described under the sharia should be implemented in a Islamic state which does not exist right now. And Allah knows best.

    Bet you don't even know all the conditions
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    (Original post by Kraixo)
    If all the conditions are met then the punishment described under the sharia should be implemented in a Islamic state which does not exist right now.
    What do you mean by this? I'm genuinely curious. (The Islamic country not existing)
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Congrats.
    Thank you but may I ask what it is for?

    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    I know this wasn't directed at me but my stance on the above were pretty conservative eventhough in my heart I saw nothing wrong with homosexuality and apostasy. (Most of the time I would just put it on the back of my mind). I believed it was blasphemes to think parts of the religion were wrong (shows God is infallible) so I told myself everything in the Quran and authentic Hadith were right, until I rejected it all. My views on gender equality and non-Muslim were normal though.
    That is very interesting, thank you for sharing Because one of my friend (who I converted to be an art enthusiast so I'm guilty of that conversion haha), used to believe in the salafist version of islam and he ate that sh*t up for soo long until one day he got the hots for a girl and decided he didn't need to believe in that stuff 😂. I didn't know him prior to being irreligious but by how he explained it he was similar to you in that nothing is wrong with homosexuality and apostasy but he would just force himself to believe they were wrong because of his interpretation. And because of this conflict in his mind he would be discriminating even more to 'prove' to himself how strong his faith was or something.

    Did you convert to another religion or are you irreligious now?
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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    When did I mention anything about faith. I never used the word nor implied imagination and faith were the same thing.

    However faith by definition is the strong belief in doctrines based on spiritual conviction rather than proof. Or in other words: Belief without evidence.

    I cant speak for you however I tend to only believe in things with evidence behind them. If we find evidence suggesting an existence of a deity I will start believing in one, till then I wont. As it stances its highly improbable for a deity to exist never mind a personal god.

    Also dont assume the reason I left Islam is due to knowledge. I read the Quran and Hadith and was extremely religious. I left because I knew too much, I saw the faults and errors within the belief system.

    No hate btw but respect other peoples beliefs rather than assuming they left based on lack of knowledge. I know you didn't mean to but thats a very arrogant way of looking at things.

    Enjoy your day.

    i'm sorry if you thought i was being arrogant but see i assumed that because the only reason anyone would leave islam would be either due to lack of knowledge or misunderstandings.. ik you are pobably annoyed that i keep arguing about your business but i really wanna know the exact reason why you left islam. Either it will give me an idea of where i am wrong in life or give me an oppurtunity to help you get rid of your misunderstadnings. ik someone who became an atheist after he started uni. later someone helped him clear out his misunderstandings and now he is a scholar. Oh and if you don't wanna talk about it just say it out loud. its fine if you wanna keep it personal. just tryna help in any way i can
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    (Original post by Kraixo)
    You're biased and selective yourself.

    Mutah is not part of islam, nor there is any authentic hadeeth.
    Of course I am, although I can see the "good" points the "bad" ones outweigh them.

    "It was narrated that Ibn 'Umar said:

    "When 'Umar bin Khattab was appointed caliph, he addressed the people and said: 'The Messenger of Allah permitted temporary marriage for us three times, then he forbade it. By Allah, If I hear of any married person entering a temporary marriage, I will stone him to death, unless he can bring me four witnesses who will testify that the Messenger of Allah, allowed it after he forbade it'." " This one isn't Sahih but Hasan(good)

    "
    Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) said:

    Two are the Mut'as which were not permissible but only for us, i. e. temporary marriage with women and Tamattu' in Hajj. " Sahih Muslim




    If all the conditions are met then the punishment described under the sharia should be implemented in a Islamic state which does not exist right now. And Allah knows best.

    Bet you don't even know all the conditions
    The conditions are very basic.
    Openly leaving Islam and criticising Islam/Allah/Muhammad are enough to get you killed. Also, let's not kid ourselves with tired old excuse "there is no real Islamic State so the rule doesn't apply". Countries that implement Sharia law will execute apostates (and others like homosexuals) even if you're not open about it.

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    (Original post by hilrho)
    Thank you but may I ask what it is for?



    That is very interesting, thank you for sharing Because one of my friend (who I converted to be an art enthusiast so I'm guilty of that conversion haha), used to believe in the salafist version of islam and he ate that sh*t up for soo long until one day he got the hots for a girl and decided he didn't need to believe in that stuff 😂. I didn't know him prior to being irreligious but by how he explained it he was similar to you in that nothing is wrong with homosexuality and apostasy but he would just force himself to believe they were wrong because of his interpretation. And because of this conflict in his mind he would be discriminating even more to 'prove' to himself how strong his faith was or something.

    Did you convert to another religion or are you irreligious now?
    Common courtesy and I literally have no problems with Muslims at all. Just certain parts of the deen.

    Interesting. I've never discriminated against anyone else, and definitely wouldn't do it to "prove" anything, but i can see why some people would do so.

    I am irreligious. I've been taught Islam was right for so long that I have no interest in searching for another faith. I don't feel the need to be spiritual or anything.
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    - Growing up and learning to question.
    - Questioning God's existence and not finding the arguments for his existence very convincing.
    - Realising just how nonsensical a lot of aspects of religion are, not just in Islam but in monotheism in general. Like praying even though prayer has no demonstrable effects, assuming that the creator of time and space actually cares about whether or not the meat in that burger you're eating was slaughtered a certain way, or whether or not you mutter a string of magic words every now and again, or whether or not you even believe in him. Why would a God be so petty?
    - And then to hammer home my point about God being petty we have Heaven and Hell. It makes God seem like a mafia boss who, depending on whether you make him happy or mad, will either throw you a party with copious amounts of strippers and alcohol, or break your arms and then throw you in a lake with cement shoes. But at least with the mafia boss example there's a purpose behind his actions, what's the purpose in God making us spend an eternity in Heaven or Hell?
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Common courtesy and I literally have no problems with Muslims at all. Just certain parts of the deen.
    Aah I see it was because I said I converted, aww thank you And yeah of course you wouldn't - I don't think just because someone leaves Islam doesn't mean they don't retain respect for people of that faith.

    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Interesting. I've never discriminated against anyone else, and definitely wouldn't do it to "prove" anything, but i can see why some people would do so.

    I am irreligious. I've been taught Islam was right for so long that I have no interest in searching for another faith. I don't feel the need to be spiritual or anything.
    I can understand that. I think the more parents shove their religion down the kids throats the more you start resenting it. I was raised around the world and I used to celebrate most religious/cultural celebrations and I think even though my mother believes in nothing, I was always spiritual now that I think about it. I was never an atheist, but more of a spiritual agnost as in I liked to believe there's something there but I couldn't prove it so I don't know. So confusing!

    How does your family feel about you not believing in it? Did they force you into practicing it a lot?
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    It's very understandable why many ex-muslims have left their religion because to be fair, not all muslims have a true grasp on what Islam is and some uneducated muslim parents decide to preach it incorrectly by teaching hate towards those who aren't a mirror image of them. As well as this, there are many aspects of the quran which are being taught to muslims as though they're word for word rules to abide by when really - just like any other piece of literature - the quran uses all sorts of literary devices.
    These are typical excuses conjured up by the religious to make their religion look perfect and those who leave the religion to be somehow in the wrong. The fact of the matter is that many ex-Muslims are extremely knowledgable about Islam and have still left it because they see the errors and contradictions in the Quran and the larger ones concerning the concept of Allah.
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    (Original post by macsalaama)
    Why should you need a human for guidance?
    Why should you need thousand year old scripture that condones murder for guidance?
    Why should you need someone/thing you never have any contact with for guidance?
    Why should you need strangers for guidance over friends/ family?
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    (Original post by Saeedpoppa)
    - Realising just how nonsensical a lot of aspects of religion are, not just in Islam but in monotheism in general. Like praying even though prayer has no demonstrable effects, assuming that the creator of time and space actually cares about whether or not the meat in that burger you're eating was slaughtered a certain way, or whether or not you mutter a string of magic words every now and again, or whether or not you even believe in him. Why would a God be so petty?
    I feel this argument would only makes sense if God was limited in His attributes or if you were to sort of equate the personality of humans with God. Just my opinion.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    These are typical excuses conjured up by the religious to make their religion look perfect and those who leave the religion to be somehow in the wrong. The fact of the matter is that many ex-Muslims are extremely knowledgable about Islam and have still left it because they see the errors and contradictions in the Quran and the larger ones concerning the concept of Allah.
    lol, habibi, it's really not that deep stop twisting my words. Kay?
    Yalla bye.
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    Can't be a Muslim if I don't believe in any of the six pillars of Islam. I'd much rather be a Deist which is free of any issues raised by the very nature of God.

    Although Deism is very similar to believing in nothing but personally I am still a Deist because you don't have to believe in angels or prophets or some writing, and most importantly you don't have to believe in fate which is a ridiculous notion given the imperfect world we live in filled with the suffering of many many innocents.


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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    In Islam it is not believed that only muslims will go to Jannah. In fact it seems completely irrational to say that when god has allowed so many other faiths to co-exist in the world. Everyone is judged on their way of life and their loyalty to their religion. In the end most majority religions follow the idea of one god.
    I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. The Quran is full of verses saying that the unbelievers will abide in hell. Are you really going to make me, a non-Muslim, produce the verses saying this from your own holy text?

    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    Men aren't allowed to beat women. What the heck have you been reading?
    He has been reading the Quran, why don't you take a quick look at 4:34
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    (Original post by hilrho)
    Aah I see it was because I said I converted, aww thank you And yeah of course you wouldn't - I don't think just because someone leaves Islam doesn't mean they don't retain respect for people of that faith.



    I can understand that. I think the more parents shove their religion down the kids throats the more you start resenting it. I was raised around the world and I used to celebrate most religious/cultural celebrations and I think even though my mother believes in nothing, I was always spiritual now that I think about it. I was never an atheist, but more of a spiritual agnost as in I liked to believe there's something there but I couldn't prove it so I don't know. So confusing!

    How does your family feel about you not believing in it? Did they force you into practicing it a lot?
    My parents never forced me to practice or anything, it was actually quite the opposite. I would always tell them they have to pray etc. I started practice after always going to the mosque and befriending the practising Muslims there.

    I haven't told them about me not believing. Eventhough they don't pray, wear hijab I know there would be problems with me leaving the faith (weird I know) maybe just because what people would think.
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    lol, habibi, it's really not that deep stop twisting my words. Kay?
    Yalla bye.
    I'm not twisting your words, just informing you that those who leave Islam don't always do so because they're uneducated or ignorant. It is possible to know a lot about Islam and still reject it.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. The Quran is full of verses saying that the unbelievers will abide in hell. Are you really going to make me, a non-Muslim, produce the verses saying this from your own holy text?



    He has been reading the Quran, why don't you take a quick look at 4:34
    Seeing as this argument is solely up to interpretation, here's my take on it (and I've grown up in a family with similar view to mine):

    Religion should = logic.
    Is it logical that just muslims go to heaven?
    No.
    Unbelievers doesn't necessarily mean non-muslims. An unbeliever is a person who does not believe in God. Of course if they've not been exposed to the idea of God then they have their own situation.
    I mean, it's fine to be agnostic because it's a state of confusion.
    Every person gets judged on how they lead their religious life-style or non-religious life style.

    And again, beating wives is irrational, read the arabic version with 500 AD understanding of arabic.
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    Afterall, the quran is a historic piece of writing that may have some errors.
    So you don't believe that it's the word of Allah, unchanged over the centuries, that is divinely protected from alterations? Congratulations, you're a kafir now. :teehee: :lol:

    Either that or there's another explanation which I'll look up when I'm not revising about osmosis.
    One sign of when to concede a point is when you find yourself confronted with an argument that you have no answer to, but instinctively feel/want that an answer will materialise at a later date. It's no use looking it up later on IslamQA or some other site and coming back with a prescribed response - it would just show that you subscribe totally to a religion that you don't understand in its entirety.
 
 
 
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