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    Genuine question but for these boys are there guidelines on instances where one can ignore this rule and touch a woman?

    A few examples...

    If a woman unrelated to them falls over, can they help them up?

    If they had to help a female colleague carry a small but very heavy item in such a way that their hands might touch?

    If they were injured and a female was the one trained in first aid? Or vice versa.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    The point he was making was that the reasoning behind refusing the handshake was because the women are dirty.

    No there isn't.
    There are many other ways I can show respect.
    No, actually in this instance the only way to show respect is by showing willingness to do so in the way which the system you're in asks you to. By not doing so it just shows that you're not willing to make the tiniest sacrifice in order to show your respect.

    Additionally, I bet you wouldn't defend a woman who goes into a mosque wearing a crop top and a skirt and no headscarf.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Good on you, I think that cheek kissing is a little strange but I am fine with it as it hurts no one and it is a sign of friendship and a nice greeting
    Thing is I find it strange but it is their way so you don't make a fuss you simply kiss back and smile.

    But I was told it's how friends greet each other and I am seen as their friend so I certainly wouldn't try and offend them.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Thing is I find it strange but it is their way so you don't make a fuss you simply kiss back and smile.

    But I was told it's how friends greet each other and I am seen as their friend so I certainly wouldn't try and offend them.
    Exactly, they do it to be respectful to us in their own way, so I will be respectful to them
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Lol how ridiculous.
    We are actually told to respect the laws of the land we live in.

    So please don't go round telling others what Muslims 'think' as if you can read our minds.
    At least I'm not telling "Mashallah" to boy who refuses to handshake the person who provided education to him, which is disrespectful of tradition and custom of the land he is living in, see the difference?
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    Btw its not the fault of the boy, its the responsibility of the parents who should understand what citizenship means.
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    At least I'm not telling "Mashallah" to boy who refuses to handshake the person who provided education to him, which is disrespectful of tradition and custom of the land he is living in, see the difference?
    Yes Masha Allah for sticking to his beliefs. Something which some Muslims are too scared to do outside their homes.
    They are other ways he could've shown respect e.g. getting her chocolates, a gift etc.
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    I'm actually on the Swiss side here, it's culture, and they want to preserve their culture. Some things doesn't have to be written in Law book for it to be followed in daily life.

    I'm pretty sure Swiss people try to cover up when they go to Iran or certain Arabic countries as a respect for their culture.

    It's like you take it or leave it. If you don't want to shake hand, go study, live in Saudi, full of understanding muslims

    I have a few issues. Firstly, not all cultural practices are deserving of respect. I'm not saying I have an issue with shaking hands, but there have been many cultural practices in the past that have been sexist for example. The freedom to rebel against cultural practices has allowed us to do away with such cultural practices. So I think it is important to be able to be free to reject cultural practices.

    Secondly, one of the things I like about the UK is that we have a very liberal attitude. For example, in the UK, a woman may cover her head with a hijab, but she may also choose to not cover he head with a hijab. In Saudi Arabia that choice is not given.If we were to force women to not wear hijabs, we would be no better than Saudi Arabia. I think what should really separate a liberal country apart from Saudi Arabia is not that we enforce different cultural practices upon people, but rather that we give people the freedom to reject cultural practices.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Yes Masha Allah for sticking to his beliefs. Something which some Muslims are too scared to do outside their homes.
    They are other ways he could've shown respect e.g. getting her chocolates, a gift etc.
    It's so lame to say Mashallah for sticking to his beliefs, that's the thinking like that fuels ISIS, you can brainwash and say Jihaaad, hurrey, go kill kaffir, bomb Europe.... it's still a belief, they do it as a result of beliefs. Just because you stick with whatever thing you have belief in doesn't automatically makes you praiseable person.

    One can have a belief brining dog to mosque everyday, is it disrespectful for muslims, yes, does it corrupt law of country, possible no, should that person do it?
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    Fantastic, Europe and the west wouldnt have half the problems we do if we had applied our attitudes and customs more rigorously like this instead of the opposite way.

    Accept us, our ways, or F OFF back to wherever you came crawling from!
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I have a few issues. Firstly, not all cultural practices are deserving of respect. I'm not saying I have an issue with shaking hands, but there have been many cultural practices in the past that have been sexist for example. The freedom to rebel against cultural practices has allowed us to do away with such cultural practices. So I think it is important to be able to be free to reject cultural practices.

    Secondly, one of the things I like about the UK is that we have a very liberal attitude. For example, in the UK, a woman may cover her head with a hijab, but she may also choose to not cover he head with a hijab. In Saudi Arabia that choice is not given.If we were to force women to not wear hijabs, we would be no better than Saudi Arabia. I think what should really separate a liberal country apart from Saudi Arabia is not that we enforce different cultural practices upon people, but rather that we give people the freedom to reject cultural practices.
    I can totally understand you points, and I agree with them. It's not that I hate muslims, I am muslim myself (more or less).

    What I have problem with is, Muslims "demand for exclusions" , their "entitlement" especially in western society. Muslims know what to expect when they come here, they know they will see half naked man in summer, women in bikini top and shorts, they know their kids will be shown people movies where people kissing and touching in schools....

    it's like, lets say Iraqi family don't go to Saudi because they are Sunni, but comes to UK because UK tolerate and accepting (even thou its Christian majority).
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I have a few issues. Firstly, not all cultural practices are deserving of respect. I'm not saying I have an issue with shaking hands, but there have been many cultural practices in the past that have been sexist for example. The freedom to rebel against cultural practices has allowed us to do away with such cultural practices. So I think it is important to be able to be free to reject cultural practices.

    Secondly, one of the things I like about the UK is that we have a very liberal attitude. For example, in the UK, a woman may cover her head with a hijab, but she may also choose to not cover he head with a hijab. In Saudi Arabia that choice is not given.If we were to force women to not wear hijabs, we would be no better than Saudi Arabia. I think what should really separate a liberal country apart from Saudi Arabia is not that we enforce different cultural practices upon people, but rather that we give people the freedom to reject cultural practices.
    PRSOM.

    Also what's this about Saudi Arabia not "giving the choice"...?



    Though, I don't think anyone can "force" the royal princess to wear the hijab, but they do have strict dress codes. And this is certainly not representative of "Middle Saudi Arabia"...
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    Lol a nun would do the same thing if she had to shake male's hand but it's fine because they're not muslims
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    It's so lame to say Mashallah for sticking to his beliefs, that's the thinking like that fuels ISIS, you can brainwash and say Jihaaad, hurrey, go kill kaffir, bomb Europe.... it's still a belief, they do it as a result of beliefs. Just because you stick with whatever thing you have belief in doesn't automatically makes you praiseable person.

    One can have a belief brining dog to mosque everyday, is it disrespectful for muslims, yes, does it corrupt law of country, possible no, should that person do it?
    Why are we associating hand shaking with terrorism here? Last time I checked they were two very different things.
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    (Original post by GCSEstudentt)
    Why are we associating hand shaking with terrorism here? Last time I checked they were two very different things.
    No she was associating "Mashallah stick to your beliefs" to terrorisms... not so different.
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    It's so lame to say Mashallah for sticking to his beliefs, that's the thinking like that fuels ISIS, you can brainwash and say Jihaaad, hurrey, go kill kaffir, bomb Europe.... it's still a belief, they do it as a result of beliefs. Just because you stick with whatever thing you have belief in doesn't automatically makes you praiseable person.

    One can have a belief brining dog to mosque everyday, is it disrespectful for muslims, yes, does it corrupt law of country, possible no, should that person do it?
    Masha Allah again to them.
    No that's not the same thinking. Please stop making stupid comparisons.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-muslim-family

    'Switzerland has suspended the citizenship process for the family of two teenage Muslim brothers after the boys’ refusal to shake hands with their female teachers sparked a national debate over religious freedoms.

    The brothers, aged 14 and 15, had informed education officials in the northern municipality of Therwil that physical contact with women who are not family members violated their faith.

    They were then exempted from a Swiss custom of pupils shaking teachers’ hands, with Therwil officials instructing them to avoid contact with male teachers as well to avoid gender discrimination.

    But the compromise sparked a heated response from leading Swiss politicians including the justice minister, Simonetta Sommaruga, who insisted that “shaking hands is part of [Swiss] culture”.

    On Tuesday, authorities in the canton of Basel-Country where Therwil is located, said that naturalisation proceedings for the family had been put on hold.'

    Glad to see some common sense being applied to situations like this

    Hope we get to see more of this in the future
    This is one of the best stories I've read in a long time

    PRSOM


    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    The Swiss are offended and stopped naturalisation proceedings because some people refused to shake the hand of someone else?

    That's extremely petty and child like.
    If "right wingers" refused to shake hands with a Muslim person in Iran you would be saying kick them out and send them to jail so stfu
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    It begs belief that right wingers would go to a place they hate and interact with people that they hate?
    And straight away you change the subject. The fact is you love Muslims more than any other group in society, you represent the left and liberal voter perfectly. "**** equality, Muslims are more important"
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    I can totally understand you points, and I agree with them. It's not that I hate muslims, I am muslim myself (more or less).

    What I have problem with is, Muslims "demand for exclusions" , their "entitlement" especially in western society. Muslims know what to expect when they come here, they know they will see half naked man in summer, women in bikini top and shorts, they know their kids will be shown people movies where people kissing and touching in schools....

    it's like, lets say Iraqi family don't go to Saudi because they are Sunni, but comes to UK because UK tolerate and accepting (even thou its Christian majority).
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you hate Muslims. My main problem is that culture is very much like religion. People often merely follow their culture of their parents and much like religion, people are very easy to take offence. Should I avoid criticising a religion because it may offend people who follow that religion? Or should I behave in a certain way as dictated by a culture so as to not offend people who follow that culture?

    I still think it is difficult as not all Muslims in the UK necessarily choose to be born here. Many Muslims who do refuse to shake hands often happen to be Muslims who are born and raised here or even sometimes are British converts. So whilst in this case in OP it is a matter of citizenship, it often isn't, and the people refusing to shake hands are often British citizens born and raised here.

    That said, breaking social and cultural norms has consequences in pretty much every society, and considering there is already plenty of anti-Muslim bigotry and issues of integration, I wouldn't really recommend Muslims to break such societal and cultural norms.
 
 
 
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