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    (Original post by neal95)
    They have agents whose job it is to establish contact and try to recoup the money but unfortunately earnings cannot come be taxed in foreign jurisdictions so it's certainly harder than the automatic add on which happens in the uk
    I personally think that there should be stricter regulations in place, but regulating this is close enough to impossible. However if they made tougher sentences (again hard to enforce in a different jurisdiction) then maybe just maybe it could reduce avoidance. I doubt it but i agree something needs to be done.
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    He stated a perfectly reasonable point, as they would be paying higher taxes which are in general paying for their peers education.
    This concept is alarming and needs seriously addressing, someone and many do, simply know full well the degree is "worthless" and they wont pay anything back, hence a hardworking student is in essence paying for their degree, whilst they took a free 3 year ride.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    There's no worthless degree
    Parapsychology
    Art History
    star trek
    philosophy

    I could go on theres so many useless worthless degrees. Worse ones are those who cant even make a decision as to what degree so they do a joint degree... And often they have absolutely no relevance at all to each other...
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Parapsychology
    Art History
    star trek
    philosophy

    I could go on theres so many useless worthless degrees. Worse ones are those who cant even make a decision as to what degree so they do a joint degree... And often they have absolutely no relevance at all to each other...
    Pretty such that parapsychology alone isn't offered as a course, but can be part of a psychology degree.
    Which unis offer Star Trek?
    What makes Philosophy and art history useless?
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    He stated a perfectly reasonable point, as they would be paying higher taxes which are in general paying for their peers education.
    I didn't say his point wasn't reasonable..
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Pretty such that parapsychology alone isn't offered as a course, but can be part of a psychology degree.
    Which unis offer Star Trek?
    What makes Philosophy and art history useless?
    Parapsychology is an extension of the core psychology degree, that many specialize in, again what a waste of time and money.

    Theres very few jobs actually linked to philosophy, why go to a uni and take out debt others will pay off for you, if job prospects are poor. Art history people end up working in a museum and art gallery... You dont need a degree to do that, again wasting tax payers money and wasting your own time. Art is something more of a hobby and again job wise is very poor.
    Start trek was used as an example of how bad some degrees are, that is being done in Georgetown uni obviously not in the uk.
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Parapsychology is an extension of the core psychology degree, that many specialize in, again what a waste of time and money.
    In this case, the degree itself is not what is useless then. It's what they chose to do with it.

    Theres very few jobs actually linked to philosophy, why go to a uni and take out debt others will pay off for you, if job prospects are poor.
    Perhaps because that's where their passion lies? Doesn't mean they cannot still get a well paid job. Most students will have the taxpayer funding their education anyway.
    Art history people end up working in a museum and art gallery... You dont need a degree to do that, again wasting tax payers money and wasting your own time. Art is something more of a hobby and again job wise is very poor.
    If they do end up in a museum/gallery and they're earning a decent salary, they'll be paying back their debt so why is it your problem?
    Start trek was used as an example of how bad some degrees are, that is being done in Georgetown uni obviously not in the uk.
    There's probably good reason why they don't do it here in the uk
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    In this case, the degree itself is not what is useless then. It's what they chose to do with it.


    Perhaps because that's where their passion lies? Doesn't mean they cannot still get a well paid job. Most students will have the taxpayer funding their education anyway.

    If they do end up in a museum/gallery and they're earning a decent salary, they'll be paying back their debt so why is it your problem?

    There's probably good reason why they don't do it here in the uk
    It doesnt matter what the degree is or what they choose to do with it, the clear issue which you seem to miss many will still go to a uni knowing what path to take, and more often than not is a poorly paid job, but its excusable because its their "passion"...
    If someone has a passion for something with poor prospects, do it as a hobby read upon it in your own time, plenty of unis publish online articles books resources. There are thousands of libraries, doing something as a passion is one thing but if the salary is poor why bother. Museum gallery curator is on around 18k... That isnt a good salary.

    Youre missing the issue and going round in circles, there are numerous examples and its clearly an issue whereby, students are attending unis whilst knowing prospects are poor at the end of it. Youre clutching at straws and saying things like "what if they get a good salary", "its their passion". Its clear that situations of poor choices lead to dead end jobs with poor salaries and regrets, this needs to be addressed and stricter regulations need to be made to solve this issue.
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    This loan system needs to be completely redone, and thought about, I and others plan on doing degrees with good salaries , because of this were forced to pay more money for our loans than we initially took out, unless we pay the full sum straight away. The problem is someone doing a degree like fashion buying, generally knows its prospects are poor in terms of salary bar the exception. Lets say they only ever earn 20k, someone who chose a sensible degree with a salary of 40k+ ends up in the longterm really paying for most of the other persons uni debt as well as their own, due to the interest rates. The interest thing is what the government uses to balance out those with poor degrees, with those with good ones.
    This whole post is just rubbish tbh:
    1. Degrees don't lead to salaries. People and their ability to get a job which pays highly does - barring medicine/dentistry/vet med/allied health which automatically lead to jobs post university. I know engineering students with 1sts who can't communicate to save their lives and are thus stuck in low wage jobs like working at a supermarket.

    Degree =/= salary

    2. Fashion buying grad schemes actually pay way more than you're alluding to. So do merchandising, procuring etc schemes. To add, there's nothing stopping a fashion buying grad from getting into any generic management grad job.

    70% of grad jobs don't specify a degree subject and the majority of grads don't go into their field because that would be impossible.

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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    It doesnt matter what the degree is or what they choose to do with it, the clear issue which you seem to miss many will still go to a uni knowing what path to take, and more often than not is a poorly paid job, but its excusable because its their "passion"...
    If someone has a passion for something with poor prospects, do it as a hobby read upon it in your own time, plenty of unis publish online articles books resources. There are thousands of libraries, doing something as a passion is one thing but if the salary is poor why bother. Museum gallery curator is on around 18k... That isnt a good salary.

    Youre missing the issue and going round in circles, there are numerous examples and its clearly an issue whereby, students are attending unis whilst knowing prospects are poor at the end of it. Youre clutching at straws and saying things like "what if they get a good salary", "its their passion". Its clear that situations of poor choices lead to dead end jobs with poor salaries and regrets, this needs to be addressed and stricter regulations need to be made to solve this issue.
    Of course it matters what you do with it. A degree in medicine is worthless to an aspiring lawyer. The issue that you seem to miss is that the degree itself is not what is useless. There have been many threads of Oxbridge grads who are unemployed.
    If someone is truly passionate about something, they can succeed in it with a well paid job. It may not be a 6 figure salary, but if it's enough to support themselves and possibly a family whilst also paying off their loans monthly, what exactly is the problem?
    Poor choices lead to dead end jobs with low salaries ? Yes perhaps. I haven't disputed that. Like I said, the degree itself is not the poor choice which is what you seem to be implying
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    This is nonsense. Most students wouldn't pay it off even they worked until they passed away because of low wages. Taxes increase all the time anyway so it doesn't really benefit tax payers.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    This whole post is just rubbish tbh:
    1. Degrees don't lead to salaries. People and their ability to get a job which pays highly does - barring medicine/dentistry/vet med/allied health which automatically lead to jobs post university. I know engineering students with 1sts who can't communicate to save their lives and are thus stuck in low wage jobs like working at a supermarket.

    Degree =/= salary

    2. Fashion buying grad schemes actually pay way more than you're alluding to. So do merchandising, procuring etc schemes. To add, there's nothing stopping a fashion buying grad from getting into any generic management grad job.

    70% of grad jobs don't specify a degree subject and the majority of grads don't go into their field because that would be impossible.

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    Yeah but surely someone who has bought a £27000 degree should have to pay for it, no matter what job they have. Otherwise they are just stealing.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Yeah but surely someone who has bought a £27000 degree should have to pay for it, no matter what job they have. Otherwise they are just stealing.
    Not everyone can pay it back, even if they wanted to. What the government have, in essence, done is reduce the amount of subsidy from 100% - prior to fees being introduced - to a lower level.

    All this talk of loans and what not is really missing the point: the government are still partially paying for the university education system as they're the ones feeding money to the universities straight up, it is then their responsibity to take on the risk (underwriting) of not all loans being paid back. The governemnt have decided that the amount foregone (i.e. subsidised) is on a risk-adjusted basis not a significant burden on the overall spending budget.

    It would be silly to expect everyone to have the full capability of paying this 'loan' back because whether you like it or not, income distributions will always exist with a few making a lot, the majority making not so much and lower end even less. This goes for ANY degree that people choose to pursue, even the so called 'highly paid' degrees (read: there's no such thing) people harp on about.

    So what we have is still a system of subsidisation but damped out by the 'grad tax' repayment method that's in place at the moment.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Of course it matters what you do with it. A degree in medicine is worthless to an aspiring lawyer. The issue that you seem to miss is that the degree itself is not what is useless. There have been many threads of Oxbridge grads who are unemployed.
    If someone is truly passionate about something, they can succeed in it with a well paid job. It may not be a 6 figure salary, but if it's enough to support themselves and possibly a family whilst also paying off their loans monthly, what exactly is the problem?
    Poor choices lead to dead end jobs with low salaries ? Yes perhaps. I haven't disputed that. Like I said, the degree itself is not the poor choice which is what you seem to be implying
    I haven't got the ability to give a positive rep after doing once already XD so am quoting instead to support what you are saying. In addition, the bolded part is particular eye-opening to those who cannot understand the job market and instead blame the students, when again I say, students didn't ask for it and yet, if any circle keeps happening in this thread, it's not understanding that students are trying to better themselves and to do well in their life. Nothing is wrong with that BUT what is wrong, are the fees that scapegoat students and make themthe root of all evil - NO NO NO

    I can understand that they are those that probably 'waste' as has been mentioned BUT that is why I am saying that tuition fees need to be revisited and changed, so that those who 'waste' need to repay an amount they can reach, and those who succeed and do well, are able to repay an amount they can reach to give back.

    ^ If this happens, then there is no issue SO for goodness sake, can people STOP blaming students XD Present your fight to the people that have the power to actually improve the system, than sending a message - 'I know the system is bad BUT if you can't pay it all, then don't even bother. I know society is prompting you to do your best BUT don't bother, because the pay you will get will not be enough and you will only be scapegoated' - SO! tell prospective teachers not to bother doing a degree because they, EVEN they, can't pay the whole fee EVEN if it will mean schools will lose teachers at a time the country is short on them

    As I repeat what I said before, if anyone read my initial post - before tuition fees happened, the State with taxpayers money put money into education. The system of tuition fees are designed so that the State loans money to students and for students to give that money back (though right now, it is a big ask XD) and when they do, it will mean the State pays nothing virtually - a BIG change to how University education was before, and NOW because students are struggling, the State pays something XD

    If you don't like how much, let's campaign against rising tuition fees and potential lifting of the cap XD Don't head-hunt students on choices they make - it is NOT just students that make bad choices - and if you deny that, well....

    (Original post by samzy21)
    This is nonsense. Most students wouldn't pay it off even they worked until they passed away because of low wages. Taxes increase all the time anyway so it doesn't really benefit tax payers.
    YES! even teachers can'y pay it all off, so! let's sort the system NOT the blame game

    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Yeah but surely someone who has bought a £27000 degree should have to pay for it, no matter what job they have. Otherwise they are just stealing.
    SO! now this topic goes from: students not paying > students are stupid > students are criminals XD wow

    Let me make this clear, from what has already been mentioned in the thread but obviously skipped - degrees are not bought they are earned - there is no bog-standard degree, but given based on ability whether it be a pass, 3rd, 2.2, 2.1 or a 1st

    I am positively sure that students don't like a debt on their shoulders, students actually campaigned against it BUT politicians put their fingers in their ears or lied BUT as a student myself at University, as much as I would prefer not to have so much debt on my shoulder when I have barely started my life's journey, I would like to repay for what I owe BUT as examples have been evidenced in this thread - NOT possible while fees continue to raise, wages not being high enough, finite jobs/places that are degree-worthy - that even teachers can't pay back

    Are you saying teachers are criminals aswell now? Why don't we just scrap the whole education system because teachers can't pay and without teachers, why students XD - We NEED to revise the system to make it sustainable in the current economic climate, so those who leave University get the job that pays and able to pay back - I would just LOVE that
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    Okay so you expect someone like a Mcdonalds worker who has a degree in history to repay there 50k debt? OK THEN
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    I think you will your post is much worse. Degrees do lead to salaries and you are clutching at straws using examples of "engineers" who dont have skills. Yes some dont the majority do. You have missed the point (like so many others) you are using examples which 1/10,000 "fashion" students achieve. You are defending the indefensible by starting "some grads do it so everyone else should have the chance" yeah have the chance but if you fail dont expect others too pay for it. Its abit like market trading if you loose the trade you dont put your hands out to the tax payer and ask for money as the choice was yours in the first place.
    You could say that about literally every degree in existence, apart from my aforementioned exceptions. Finding employment is not an automatic or near automatic process wherein you're offered a job with a set salary for having completed x course of study. That's false. It's a complex and competitive process involving individuals applying to jobs they want to do - which most likely will differ from what they're studying.

    Your perspective is that of the individual, mine is that of the overall funding system. Of course we'll have disagreements.
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    Graduated 2 years ago with a Maths degree when fees were 3k and haven't paid back my loans what you gonna do?
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    You had the choice in year 13 whether to go to university. University is not like secondary education where you HAVE too go, it is a choice. When you understand that you will understand it is bad decisions which lead to these problems. Am i saying only students make bad decision? NO! But large debts by anyone are MOSTLY caused by bad decision making.
    When will you understand, that the only reason student repayments are an issue, stem from the introduction of tuition fees that continue to rise. You have acknowledged that students aren't the only ones that make bad decisions, but students are not in the same position as everyone else, who take on University education to achieve that degree and get a degree-worthy job that is well-paid. Once the students achieves the degree-worthy job, they then contribute as a tax-payer (like everyone else) and repay their loan with the wages they receive. However, with those wages, even in a degree-worthy job, they don't cover the fees entirely.

    I can understand your point, that loans should be repaid. In an ideal world and ideal system, student repayment would not be a big issue, because student repayment would be achievable by having a degree-worthy job. At the moment, it is not achievable, which the Institute of Fiscal Studies has worked out. However, the Government are putting fingers in their ears and believe the answer, is to raise the bar even higher XD is that the fault of students? and again I repeat, should the students be told not to bother? should prospective teachers be told not to bother? - Can you answer this please.

    This is why I argue that the system needs to be revisited. There should be a standard tuition fee that is achievable once a student is earning, in order to repay the benefits they received as a result of University education. If the said student, achieved as a result of University education, then based on the salary that they receive, that they would not of achieved without University education, then they should pay a higher percentage back. The result of this, would be that every student will be able to pay the standard tuition fee for the time they spent there in the choice that they made, while students who worked hard and now reap in the benefits, can now give back to the University education that fed them.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    You could say that about literally every degree in existence, apart from my aforementioned exceptions. Finding employment is not an automatic or near automatic process wherein you're offered a job with a set salary for having completed x course of study. That's false. It's a complex and competitive process involving individuals applying to jobs they want to do - which most likely will differ from what they're studying.

    Your perspective is that of the individual, mine is that of the overall funding system. Of course we'll have disagreements.
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    (Original post by animus01)
    I haven't got the ability to give a positive rep after doing once already XD so am quoting instead to support what you are saying. In addition, the bolded part is particular eye-opening to those who cannot understand the job market and instead blame the students, when again I say, students didn't ask for it and yet, if any circle keeps happening in this thread, it's not understanding that students are trying to better themselves and to do well in their life. Nothing is wrong with that BUT what is wrong, are the fees that scapegoat students and make themthe root of all evil - NO NO NO

    I can understand that they are those that probably 'waste' as has been mentioned BUT that is why I am saying that tuition fees need to be revisited and changed, so that those who 'waste' need to repay an amount they can reach, and those who succeed and do well, are able to repay an amount they can reach to give back.

    ^ If this happens, then there is no issue SO for goodness sake, can people STOP blaming students XD Present your fight to the people that have the power to actually improve the system, than sending a message - 'I know the system is bad BUT if you can't pay it all, then don't even bother. I know society is prompting you to do your best BUT don't bother, because the pay you will get will not be enough and you will only be scapegoated' - SO! tell prospective teachers not to bother doing a degree because they, EVEN they, can't pay the whole fee EVEN if it will mean schools will lose teachers at a time the country is short on them

    As I repeat what I said before, if anyone read my initial post - before tuition fees happened, the State with taxpayers money put money into education. The system of tuition fees are designed so that the State loans money to students and for students to give that money back (though right now, it is a big ask XD) and when they do, it will mean the State pays nothing virtually - a BIG change to how University education was before, and NOW because students are struggling, the State pays something XD

    If you don't like how much, let's campaign against rising tuition fees and potential lifting of the cap XD Don't head-hunt students on choices they make - it is NOT just students that make bad choices - and if you deny that, well....



    YES! even teachers can'y pay it all off, so! let's sort the system NOT the blame game



    SO! now this topic goes from: students not paying > students are stupid > students are criminals XD wow

    Let me make this clear, from what has already been mentioned in the thread but obviously skipped - degrees are not bought they are earned - there is no bog-standard degree, but given based on ability whether it be a pass, 3rd, 2.2, 2.1 or a 1st

    I am positively sure that students don't like a debt on their shoulders, students actually campaigned against it BUT politicians put their fingers in their ears or lied BUT as a student myself at University, as much as I would prefer not to have so much debt on my shoulder when I have barely started my life's journey, I would like to repay for what I owe BUT as examples have been evidenced in this thread - NOT possible while fees continue to raise, wages not being high enough, finite jobs/places that are degree-worthy - that even teachers can't pay back

    Are you saying teachers are criminals aswell now? Why don't we just scrap the whole education system because teachers can't pay and without teachers, why students XD - We NEED to revise the system to make it sustainable in the current economic climate, so those who leave University get the job that pays and able to pay back - I would just LOVE that
    Wish I could rep this more than once. Agree with everything you've said and it was very well put!
 
 
 
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