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    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    Women are now allowed to work/enter education as a woman's role is no longer just to stay in the home however by wearing hijab they are not completely leaving behind their religion/culture for the life of work/education. Thus making the hijab liberating, Muslim women can do anything Muslim men/ women in the west can do but they can also still maintain the teachings of Islam (hijab).
    So its impossible to be a Muslim and a non-hijabi...?

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    (Original post by chemting)
    What I don't get is instead of fighting for women's right to have education/job, why is it "more liberating" for making women have education through a veil - instead of solving the problem, you're just perpetuating it... and its not easier to enter education - its obvious that its a woman: what man will want to hide his way into getting an education/job via the use of veil...

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    That was just one way in which 'some' Muslim women may find the hijab liberating, mainly women from conservative/traditional backgrounds/countries. Obviously this problem needs to be solved as it has been in the west but in msny countries it is still not happening therefore women can use their hijab as a way into the world of work/education. (I hope im making sense)
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hello!

    First of all, I'd like to say this thread is very hard to make for me since I've always portrayed myself as a 'proud' Muslim. I have been feeling depressed for the past, say, 4 years of my life. I'm turning 18 in the summer, and I have never felt so ugly, so depressed, so not my self. Imagine realising that you're not going to be able to do what you want in life... that you're living just to wait for death. That is how I feel. I feel completely trapped.

    My parents are conservative, very strict, very scary. My father moreso than my mother. My extended family are like that as well, you do one thing that they don't like and you're put under fire by the whole ****ing country. I have aunts and uncles here as well, and if I were to take it off all Hell would break loose.

    I just can't try and find justifications for some of the things in Islam. Like this verse in the Quran:
    "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great." (4:34)
    This verse is in the Quran, it is not a hadith so you can say "oh that's just someone talking ****", it is the unadulterated word of God Himself.

    I just don't see a reason for covering my hair, I can be modest in my thoughts, I can be modest without a hijab. I love God and I hope he forgives me but I just don't understand why? If He made me the way I am and He loves me, why does He order men to rinse their hands from my touch?
    "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" (5:6)Am I created dirty?

    I just don't see how this could be 'misinterpreted'. And it's not even just Islam itself, it is the Muslim community. The backwards thinking, the hypocrisy, the oppression hidden behind smiles and empty arguments to trick yourself into believing it's the right thing to do. I don't want to lie to myself, and to God and to my family and say I want to represent this and I believe in this and it makes me happy. It doesn't. I am depressed. I feel like ****. I feel like I am losing purpose. I feel like my dreams are too far to reach.

    And I can't ignore it any more. It's been 4 years of constant **** and right now I am itching in my own skin. I am suffering so much and I know it might never end. Because I would be ridiculed and looked down upon and disowned by my own community/ family, nobody would want to marry me, I'm going to be pointed at my mothers who tell their children not to be like me. People are going to scowl in disgust when they hear my name. And I am a person who craves validation. If someone doesn't like me, I go out of my way to make them like me, so that would absolutely destroy me.

    Funny how a cloth on your head can do that to ya huh? But I don't know how to live my life the way I want and not to hurt or be hurt by those I love and those I call "family". I just need help. I don't need someone telling me I will go to Hell. God is merciful and will forgive my sins. You are not God.

    Any words of reassurance? Advice? Anything?
    The hijab isn't compulsory in Islam and there is no verse from the Qur'an that says so. My advice would be, given the attitude of your family, to wait until you're financially independent before doing it, otherwise they might kick you out and leave you homeless like has happened to many ex-Muslims and Muslims who refuse to comply to the so-called commandments of Allah. Once you have your own money and your own house they can't threaten you with leaving you on the street.
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    (Original post by chemting)
    So its impossible to be a Muslim and a non-hijabi...?

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    There are also many other ways in which women can still maintain their religion even if they do not wish to wear the hijab..
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    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    Women are now allowed to work/enter education as a woman's role is no longer just to stay in the home however by wearing hijab they are not completely leaving behind their religion/culture for the life of work/education. Thus making the hijab liberating, Muslim women can do anything Muslim men/ women in the west can do but they can also still maintain the teachings of Islam (hijab).
    Most modern translations of the Qu'ran do not say that wearing a veil is compulsory.

    You don't have to wear a veil to be Muslim.

    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    That was just one way in which 'some' Muslim women may find the hijab liberating, mainly women from conservative/traditional backgrounds/countries. Obviously this problem needs to be solved as it has been in the west but in msny countries it is still not happening therefore women can use their hijab as a way into the world of work/education
    If the hijab is compulsory, then it cannot be liberating.

    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    (I hope im making sense)
    I'm afraid you don't make any sense.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    You've ot it the wrong way round. God is testing us so we see the results. God isn't doing the test for his benefit.
    This doesn't make sense. If God knows the answers in advance then it cannot be a test, no matter what way you look at it. Us humans already see the consequences of our actions because of cause and effect.
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    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    That was just one way in which 'some' Muslim women may find the hijab liberating, mainly women from conservative/traditional backgrounds/countries. Obviously this problem needs to be solved as it has been in the west but in msny countries it is still not happening therefore women can use their hijab as a way into the world of work/education. (I hope im making sense)
    You're still ignoring the root cause imo. The only choice doesn't necessarily make it liberating (fair enough in the west its a different issue and I'm glad you recognise its not the same everywhere)

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    (Original post by Josb)
    If the hijab is compulsory, then it cannot be liberating.
    QE2 made a thread about this and it was found that apparently even though it is compulsory in Islam (its not imo), women still choose to wear it...

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    (Original post by Josb)
    Most modern translations of the Qu'ran do not say that wearing a veil is compulsory.

    You don't have to wear a veil to be Muslim.


    If the hijab is compulsory, then it cannot be liberating.
    At which point did I state the hijab is compulsory, I just talked about Muslim women and the majority of Muslim women wear the hijab.

    You just stared before that the hijab is not compulsory. Also I disagree I do not know if the 'hijab' (as you refer to the scarf worn on a woman's head) is compulsory or not. But many women who wear the hijab find it liberating, are you suggesting that just because the scarf may be 'compulsory' the way in which millions of women feel about the hijab is a lie?
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    Hey, I hope you're doing better.

    I'm a Christian not a muslim but I believe religion should be something that makes you happy, to feel safe by trusting in God and help you to lead a good life and follow the right path.
    If wearing a hijab makes you that unhappy, then maybe you should stop wearing it. You have free will, and therefore it is your choice. Especially if it is affecting you so much,
    If you still want to be a muslim, then you can still follow islam without wearing it. Many muslims don't.
    If you don't want to be a muslim for the reasons you said, then no one should stop you. But make sure you think about it, because it is a big decision, and you should talk to someone who is close to you and you trust that can give you some advice.

    All the best.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    ...why would an all-knowing god need to test somebody...? the whole point of "testing" is to learn, so oes that imply that an all-knowing god has more to learn about? isn't that contradictive? ("yes" )
    Knowing what will happen does not mean that God is preventing or causing that thing to happen.
    God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else. It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time.
    Our freedom is not restricted by God's foreknowledge. Our freedom is simply realised ahead of time by God.
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    (Original post by NeverGrowUp)
    Knowing what will happen does not mean that God is preventing or causing that thing to happen.
    God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else. It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time.
    Our freedom is not restricted by God's foreknowledge. Our freedom is simply realised ahead of time by God.
    1) still, then: god isn't testing anybody
    2) if a reality is pre-determined, which would be necessary if god knows the end result of every situation by virtue of this fact, then we dont have free will. the universe is simply playing out exactly as it is destined to. destiny =/= free will - it's the opposite. if I'm destined to do something and I'm destined to choose a certain path, then that's not me deciding it on a choice basis. if I was always going to do it then I had no choice in the matter.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The hijab isn't compulsory in Islam and there is no verse from the Qur'an that says so. My advice would be, given the attitude of your family, to wait until you're financially independent before doing it, otherwise they might kick you out and leave you homeless like has happened to many ex-Muslims and Muslims who refuse to comply to the so-called commandments of Allah. Once you have your own money and your own house they can't threaten you with leaving you on the street.
    It is compulsory, this guy doesn't have a clue.
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    We can all say what we beleive to be right or wrong but in the end you have to decide.

    You should think about this in quiet with no distractions and think of the positives and negatives to both of your options.

    Good luck with your decision.

    With regards to how to do it should you decide to do it... Just whip it off! Be honest with your family and most importantly be honest with yourself.

    It's not going to be easy. Best of luck.
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    (Original post by NeverGrowUp)
    Knowing what will happen does not mean that God is preventing or causing that thing to happen.
    God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else. It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time.
    Our freedom is not restricted by God's foreknowledge. Our freedom is simply realised ahead of time by God.
    How is it "test"? If god knows the result...

    If god knows what will happen then we can't do something else that god didn't know about.

    Its not a test. Its god putting us in this world already knowing what would happen and its just a game: unless god doesn't know what will happen in advance...

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    (Original post by h333)
    There is no compulsion in islam sister. But If I was you I will make sure entirely the reasons for taking it off and be true to yourself on why you want that. Also, I would also advice you to watch some videos of people like Mufti Ismael Menk, Ali Dawah Naseeha sessions etc.

    After you fully understand and you would still choose to take it off then honestly no one can really stop you. It is not as if you will be no longer a muslim but just that you will choose not follow one of the obligatory rules. So Allah will judge you on that and no one has the right to judge you but Allah alone. Also Allah is all merciful. Who knows in the future you may want to return and wear the hijab again when you experience the world or mature more In shaa Allah.

    Be careful of commiting major sins that may take you away from Allah/God with time as this is the plan of the shaitaan.

    May Allah guide and keep you on the straight path and grant you all happiness and well being sister.
    This
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    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    At which point did I state the hijab is compulsory, I just talked about Muslim women and the majority of Muslim women wear the hijab.

    You just stared before that the hijab is not compulsory. Also I disagree I do not know if the 'hijab' (as you refer to the scarf worn on a woman's head) is compulsory or not.
    I apologise if I wrongly deciphered your grammar.

    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    But many women who wear the hijab find it liberating, are you suggesting that just because the scarf may be 'compulsory' the way in which millions of women feel about the hijab is a lie?
    Many Muslims try to conciliate their oppressive beliefs with the society they live in. Rather than leaping into the void and abandoning the hijab, they prefer to say that it is in fact "liberating" in order to find a modern meaning to the veil. I suppose that not everybody has the strength to question their upbringing, confront their family, and be ostracised from their community.
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    (Original post by chemting;[url="tel:64634099")
    64634099[/url]]How is it "test"? If god knows the result...

    If god knows what will happen then we can't do something else that god didn't know about.

    Its not a test. Its god putting us in this world already knowing what would happen and its just a game: unless god doesn't know what will happen in advance...

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    Imagine you have a best friend. You love him and he loves you (not in love; best friend type of love). You know everything about him, right? You know what shows he watches, you know what foods he likes to eat when you go resteraunts but not only that ... He has three/four favourite sweets. He loves them. He has them everyday and over time, you obviously notice this. And of course, as best best best friends you know their employment and how much money they might carry with them on an average night out.

    One day, you and your friend enter a new sweet shop with every sweet in the world and you immediately know that your friend has ONLY enough money to buy those three/four sweets. I mean, he COULD buy ANY of the hundreds of sweets available but you just KNOW that he's gonna get those BEFORE he has even bought them.

    Just like that, when God created mankind he knew exactly what actions the individual will do across his whole life and whether or not he is a good or bad muslim. He knows exactly what actions he will make before he does them.

    So this life is a test with the results pre-determind before we are born. This pre-determination is based purely on the actions we make and they are known by God before we make the actions.

    This is the philosophy that muslims believe in, in conjuction with the idea that God is All-Knowing. In fact, the whole idea of it depends on the idea that God is All-Knowing and so therefore if you disagree with that, then fair-dos.

    Ooohhhh! And I almost forgot. If you're thinking "If God KNOWS what we're gonna do. Why doesn't God just send us straight to heaven/hell BEFORE we live our lives?"

    It's because no crime can be punished without it actually happening. You can't punish someone for something they didn't do.
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    Do what you want. Your family don't control you, and I really do feel sorry for your parents having such a narrow mindset. I'd wait until you're financially independent to do so though.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    I apologise if I wrongly deciphered your grammar.


    Many Muslims try to conciliate their oppressive beliefs with the society they live in. Rather than leaping into the void and abandoning the hijab, they prefer to say that it is in fact "liberating" in order to find a modern meaning to the veil. I suppose that not everybody has the strength to question their upbringing, confront their family, and be ostracised from their community.
    Maybe this is the case for many but again I must disagree. My mother is a convert to Islam and at the beginning she chose not to wear the scarf however after time she chose to wear it and tells me it's not oppressive but liberating. She didn't choose to wear it because she thought it was compulsory she wore it because of the way it made her feel. Again I must emphasise no one forced her my father's family are Muslim but none of the women wear a scarf making it completely her own choice. Like wise many of my friends are Muslim and most of those who didn't wear the scarf previously have started to adopt it due to the way it makes them feel. Again none of these girls were forced. However you do make a valid point many women are forced into hijab and maybe adding this label of liberation helps them come to terms with this. But I do think it is important to not ignore the fact that hijab and the scarf Is an ACTUAL source of liberation for many Muslim women.
 
 
 
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