is it okay for a boy to use self defence during a conflict with a girl?

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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    So you don't think women are viewed as physically weaker? Are you serious mate :rofl:
    Of course they are on average, don't put words in my mouth, but that's not the reason hitting women is seen as so abhorrent. Otherwise a smaller man being hit by a larger man would be seen with the same hatred; It's not, it's seen as bad, but not as bad as a man hitting a woman.

    Society has evolved with women being more valuable then men because of how reproduction in a tribe/society works, that's biology, we've just never moved past that attitude.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    That would count as unaggravated assault and thus you would get in trouble for hitting someone who wasn't threatening you.
    If she can get away with it then so can I.
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    (Original post by hxylxy)
    Fellow students, I am sick of girls that try to act big and start fights with boys, knowing full well that the boy is unlikely to retaliate because of the stigma with patrichal violence.

    Watched a video today on a group of girls in America that started picking on a man on the subway. They threw insults at him, stole his hat and stepped on it. They had also began pushing him, shouting at how rude he was for not being quick enough on giving his seat up for a pregnant women. The video showed it all. Not once does this guy retaliate.

    Tensions became high when he had said that they were making unnecessary noise on the bus and had walked away towards another seat. The girls followed him. One girl in particular got into his face and had slapped his head repeatedly and his face. No one once intervened. He retaliated and gave this girl one of the juiciest slap I had ever seen. That one slap got the whole subway on a frenzy. One passenger had defended the man whilst others criticised his action. The video ended with girl that had gotten slapped sitting on the chair whilst the boy was in an argument with another passenger.

    This is what I don't understand. I am a female student. I do not condone public fighting but I do accept self defence. Girls all want equality but there are many girls that like to choose when equality can be used in certain situations. I believe in wholistic equality not equality whenever it suites me....

    My saying goes, if you want to slap somebody, be ready to be slapped back...
    What do you guys think about this situation and what are your views on the matter??
    if a girl can give a punch she can take one
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Of course they are on average, don't put words in my mouth, but that's not the reason hitting women is seen as so abhorrent. Otherwise a smaller man being hit by a larger man would be seen with the same hatred; It's not, it's seen as bad, but not as bad as a man hitting a woman.

    Society has evolved with women being more valuable then men because of how reproduction in a tribe/society works, that's biology, we've just never moved past that attitude.
    On a completely unrelated note, why do people keep referring to psychology as biology? This is the 3rd time I've seen this now and it's irritating to say the least. You do realise that psychology is the study of human mind and behaviour that encompasses both biological, cognitive and social elements don't you? What you are discussing is a core psychological debate, not a biological debate. It's far more likely to show up in a psychological journal. Such a pet peeve of mine.

    Also, you are making up an evo-psychological theory off the top of your head aren't you? Why don't you do some research first? It is actually reasonable what you're saying but you can't just make it up and pretend it's fact or established theory. You need to do some research.

    I'd say this also, evolutionary psychology is massively overemphasised by lay people for some reason. It is a very small part of a much broader picture. And often does add up.

    You are using the "tribe" explanation to say why women are more valuable, because they bare offspring. But then surely males in tribes are just as valuable, due to them being the main provider of resources, food? And also being the main protectors of the tribe?

    Both are equally as valuable to the survival of the tribe. That theory, if it exists that is, is insufficient.


    Also, you say it's an injustice but then you provide an evolutionary theory which you use to justify it? If it is such an instinctual process as you seem to think, then why are you also referring to it as unjust?

    Also in a previous reply you've referred to it as "socially ingrained" which suggests that you don't think it's wholly biological anyway. You know there's a social influence at work.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    On a completely unrelated note, why do people keep referring to psychology as biology? This is the 3rd time I've seen this now and it's irritating to say the least. You do realise that psychology is the study of human mind and behaviour that encompasses both biological, cognitive and social elements don't you? What you are discussing is a core psychological debate, not a biological debate. It's far more likely to show up in a psychological journal. Such a pet peeve of mine.

    Also, you are making up an evo-psychological theory off the top of your head aren't you? Why don't you do some research first? It is actually reasonable what you're saying but you can't just make it up and pretend it's fact or established theory. You need to do some research.

    I'd say this also, evolutionary psychology is massively overemphasised by lay people for some reason. It is a very small part of a much broader picture. And often does add up.

    You are using the "tribe" explanation to say why women are more valuable, because they bare offspring. But then surely males in tribes are just as valuable, due to them being the main provider of resources, food? And also being the main protectors of the tribe?

    Both are equally as valuable to the survival of the tribe. That theory, if it exists that is, is insufficient.


    Also, you say it's an injustice but then you provide an evolutionary theory which you use to justify it? If it is such an instinctual process as you seem to think, then why are you also referring to it as unjust?

    Also in a previous reply you've referred to it as "socially ingrained" which suggests that you don't think it's wholly biological anyway. You know there's a social influence at work.
    Yeah, you're right it is evo-psychology but that is pretty closely intertwined with biology so I don't think it's wholly wrong to say that.

    Also I'm not sure of the theories name and no I don't have source, but this isn't something off the top of my head although I'm sure you you aren't going to believe that, which is fair enough. I wouldn't either. It's just something our biology teacher shared with us once.
    You're assuming that the ability to provide is as important as the ability to reproduce, I seriously doubt it is. You're also assuming that the remaining men couldn't compensate the providing or protecting. If the men are lost, the next generation wont be effected, you'll have just as many children as one man can impregnate multiple women at any one time. However obviously women can't get pregnant multiple times at once, so the next generation is stunted.

    Just because something has a basis in evolutionary psychology, doesn't make it just or even applicable to modern day society. The justification is for that thought existing in society, not for it to be upheld. Women don't need to be protected anymore because the stakes aren't as high as they were back in tribal times. Women aren't any more useful to society then men are.
    We aren't evolved for the lifestyles we live in today, because society has changed so rapidly. Doesn't mean we have to stick to our base instincts, I'd like to think we're past that stage.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    If an average sized man was beating up a 5 foot 5 man weighing 7 and a half stone it most likely would.
    I don't think so.

    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Of course they are on average, don't put words in my mouth, but that's not the reason hitting women is seen as so abhorrent. Otherwise a smaller man being hit by a larger man would be seen with the same hatred; It's not, it's seen as bad, but not as bad as a man hitting a woman.Society has evolved with women being more valuable then men because of how reproduction in a tribe/society works, that's biology, we've just never moved past that attitude.
    A man hitting a woman is almost akin to hitting a child.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    I don't think so.

    A man hitting a woman is almost akin to hitting a child.
    When a child acts up, it's fairly socially acceptable to slap it. I'm not complaining that it isn't socially acceptable to hit a woman tho, just that I'd like to be granted the same social protection as well.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Yes, I've never been in a street fight, like most women I know? :s

    Well that's probably because the other person retaliated.

    Have you been in a fight then sweet cheek?
    Anyway anyone with a pulse who gets hit will hit back.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    When a child acts up, it's fairly socially acceptable to slap it. I'm not complaining that it isn't socially acceptable to hit a woman tho, just that I'd like to be granted the same social protection as well.
    I suppose its to do with a parents responsibility over a child, giving them more of a right to discipline their child as they see fit.

    But that didn't come to mind when I was drawing comparisons.
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    Personally, I'm a little old fashioned in that I would (almost) always refrain from hitting a woman. However, if I'm under attack and I feel I'm in danger, I will respond physically if necessary, regardless of the gender of my assailant.

    However, with all this talk of gender equality, I think it is immensely hypocritical of people to condemn hitting a woman when they would excuse or even celebrate a woman hitting a man under the same circumstances. Ladies, if you instigate a fight and throw a punch or a kick at a man, don't play the victim card if one gets thrown right back at you.
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    I just find it super hard to understand the way the media portrays women slapping men. It's seen as 'funny' and deserved... For example, (cliche scene)man is found cheating, his wife finds out and at the heat of the moment slaps him. The man would be seen to deserve it, and the majority of people wouldn't blink an eyelid at the violence that had just taken place because he Had it coming right??

    however, if it was the other way round, there would have been a public outcry....
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    The only requirement for self defence under law is that you perceived a risk of imminent harm, or harm had been inflicted, and reacted in a way that would be considered by a reasonable person as proportional (paraphrase). There is no gender in that statement therefore any man has a right to hit any woman as a reasonable response.

    Practically speaking its socially stigmatised but i dont understand why, there is no legitimate moral argument against self defence other than pacifistic ideologies (in which case the issue would never arise) nor is their legal resistance to the right to defend oneself. Simply put, i think any person should defend themselves against any other person irrespective of gender if its so required.
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    (Original post by hxylxy)
    Fellow students, I am sick of girls that try to act big and start fights with boys, knowing full well that the boy is unlikely to retaliate because of the stigma with patrichal violence.

    Watched a video today on a group of girls in America that started picking on a man on the subway. They threw insults at him, stole his hat and stepped on it. They had also began pushing him, shouting at how rude he was for not being quick enough on giving his seat up for a pregnant women. The video showed it all. Not once does this guy retaliate.

    Tensions became high when he had said that they were making unnecessary noise on the bus and had walked away towards another seat. The girls followed him. One girl in particular got into his face and had slapped his head repeatedly and his face. No one once intervened. He retaliated and gave this girl one of the juiciest slap I had ever seen. That one slap got the whole subway on a frenzy. One passenger had defended the man whilst others criticised his action. The video ended with girl that had gotten slapped sitting on the chair whilst the boy was in an argument with another passenger.

    This is what I don't understand. I am a female student. I do not condone public fighting but I do accept self defence. Girls all want equality but there are many girls that like to choose when equality can be used in certain situations. I believe in wholistic equality not equality whenever it suites me....

    My saying goes, if you want to slap somebody, be ready to be slapped back...
    What do you guys think about this situation and what are your views on the matter??
    Link to the video?
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    (Original post by Excuse Me!)
    Link to the video?
    The video isn't on YouTube. Don't think it would be allowed on it tbh. I was at college and one of the girls were showing it around via either her Twitter or Instagram. Have a look possibly on Twitter, there are soo many disgusting amateur videos on there.
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    Slapping back isn't self defence, it's retaliation/a counter attack.

    Self defence is protecting yourself, so perhaps holding someone back or pushing them away.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Of course it's okay, if you say otherwise you're sexist
    Exactly.

    Can't wait for the day a girl hits me. There's a Falcon Punch with her name on it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    Agreed, if you're a girl and you swing for a man, be prepared for them to retaliate. And vice versa.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Quite simple. Retaliation is not a form of self-defence, I highly doubt it would stand up in court.
    I'm sure it would stand up if it was the other way round though (meaning, a woman defending her self/retaliating after being hit)
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    How does one prove though they were not going to hit again?

    I mean in this scenario, everyone saw them abusing him, then a slap comes. If he immediately slaps back he can so easily just say I was in danger, they didn't let off me, they were going to slap me again. How could you prove otherwise? Retaliation if you wait hours or a day find the guy then beat him, sure. But in an immediate situation how can you ever argue the person was retaliating rather than just using violence to counter act possible future acts of violence against him- or herself.
    Lol idk m8, I never said he was retaliating, I'm just pointing out the difference.
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    Bill Burr makes the very good point that women shouldn't hit strange men as they don't know their backstory.
    "Manhattan McDonalds beat down" shows why?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTx4LLHxMyM
 
 
 
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