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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    The concept is simple and sound why Capitalism is far superior.

    Capitalism works on the basis of "positive reinforcement". There is always something to strive for. You feel rewarded because you own, your house etc..

    Socialism kills desire because there is nothing to strive for and you dont own anything, you rent a house etc..
    Unless you have a night-watchman state (which is going to be have to be funded via tax) there is no point trying to get that house because the gang leader of the area can just demand you hand over your house to him. You would end up being serf to the guy with the biggest stick. Strong property rights that people can rely on requires a strong state to enforce them.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    You fail to understand totally how economics works, like them planks at no10, that are running this country into the ground using a economic model that generates no wealth and a system that rewards laziness at the working classes expense.

    And to put the icing on the cake you are paying taxes which goes to the military that bombs every country in the world while letting the enemy's they create into the country thus creating more division and chaos, so that they can rule over you in your confusion.

    Also they are turning the country into a repressive police state under the lie "its for you own protection"
    Ah okay so let's live in A society with no police, no prisons, no courts, no government, no roads, no public infrastructure, no one to collect your bins, no one to manage the sewage system, no one to operate street lights because hey NO TAXES!!
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Ah okay so let's live in A society with no police, no prisons, no courts, no government, no roads, no public infrastructure, no one to collect your bins, no one to manage the sewage system, no one to operate street lights because hey NO TAXES!!
    So long as we have the cement we can lay roads, dont need to tax the cement do we..

    Dont need a middle man coming in saying I used my eye site on your cement so I am taking 40% of it do you?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Unless you have a night-watchman state (which is going to be have to be funded via tax) there is no point trying to get that house because the gang leader of the area can just demand you hand over your house to him. You would end up being serf to the guy with the biggest stick. Strong property rights that people can rely on requires a strong state to enforce them.
    Yeah but these uber wealthy people who don't want to pay tax because it's theft will volunteer to pay for it remember...
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    The concept is simple and sound why Capitalism is far superior.

    Capitalism works on the basis of "positive reinforcement". There is always something to strive for. You feel rewarded because you own, your house etc..

    Socialism kills desire because there is nothing to strive for and you dont own anything, you rent a house etc..
    Capitalism has things to strive for but most workers will never be able to get them as the bourgoisie oppresses them. Socialism doesn't kill desire, it isn't about ensuring everyone has the same amount, its about allowing people to earn what they have created through their labour, it is more meritocratic than capitalism.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Capitalism has things to strive for but most workers will never be able to get them as the bourgoisie oppresses them. Socialism doesn't kill desire, it isn't about ensuring everyone has the same amount, its about allowing people to earn what they have created through their labour, it is more meritocratic than capitalism.
    Rubbish just ****ing complete crap mate.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    Rubbish just ****ing complete crap mate.
    Afraid that isn't an argument.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Afraid that isn't an argument.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    I think I'm wasting my time replying to you, I asked you to elaborate and you could not. People can draw their own conclusions. Asking you to explain what you meant is not emotional and neither is questioning the disgraceful levels of wealth inequality caused by capitalism.
    Replace these terms with arguments of substance and we can continue:

    "ethically abhorrent"
    "equally cruel"
    "too deluded to contemplate."

    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Sounds dangerously socialist.
    In what way?
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    (Original post by otester)
    Replace these terms with arguments of substance and we can continue:

    "ethically abhorrent"
    "equally cruel"
    "too deluded to contemplate."



    In what way?
    "Ethically abhorrent" - How can you justify giving people, who have largely earnt their wealth by exploiting workers or through inheritance, the choice over who should get a road.

    "Too deluded to contemplate" - Preceding this there is a point about how impractical it is to ask working people to build a road by themselves, what an efficient system your capitalism is!

    There were points in there which you have still failed to address while instead you pick out terms which are part of the argument and ask me to replace them with the argument from which they have come. Please don't evade these points in your next response.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    "Ethically abhorrent" - How can you justify giving people, who have largely earnt their wealth by exploiting workers or through inheritance, the choice over who should get a road.

    "Too deluded to contemplate" - Preceding this there is a point about how impractical it is to ask working people to build a road by themselves, what an efficient system your capitalism is!

    There were points in there which you have still failed to address while instead you pick out terms which are part of the argument and ask me to replace them with the argument from which they have come. Please don't evade these points in your next response.
    Exploited workers? How?

    Why is it impractical?
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    Strange how battery farming is a result of capitalism unfettered - where farms are forced to squeeze as much money out of their livestock by putting them in cages whereas free range is the result of regulations on farmers - and yet you are using it as a metaphor for socialism. Furthermore, if you think capitalism leads to freedom you are wrong, it leads to large corporations controlling their workers and reduced social mobility, therefore the image of a battery farm would be better suited to showing how capitalism enslaves the worker.
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    (Original post by otester)
    Exploited workers? How?

    Why is it impractical?
    The capitalist exploits their workers by not paying them a wage equal to that which they have produced through their labour. Think about it like this, you go to work and you make £20 worth of a good or service, the capitalist cannot pay you £20 because he needs to make a profit, therefore he will pay you less than you have produced.

    It is impractical because of something called specialisation. The idea is that you have different people with different skills who produce their own goods - the road - and sell it to the consumer. To have the consumer build the road by themselves would require them buying very expensive capital equipment that has limited uses or spending a lot of time building a road when they could be working.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Strange how battery farming is a result of capitalism unfettered - where farms are forced to squeeze as much money out of their livestock by putting them in cages whereas free range is the result of regulations on farmers - and yet you are using it as a metaphor for socialism. Furthermore, if you think capitalism leads to freedom you are wrong, it leads to large corporations controlling their workers and reduced social mobility, therefore the image of a battery farm would be better suited to showing how capitalism enslaves the worker.
    Incorrect, I have the choice between battery or free range chickens, I choose free range of my own volition.

    Corporations can only control workers and reduce social mobility with the use of the state or consent.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    The capitalist exploits their workers by not paying them a wage equal to that which they have produced through their labour. Think about it like this, you go to work and you make £20 worth of a good or service, the capitalist cannot pay you £20 because he needs to make a profit, therefore he will pay you less than you have produced.

    It is impractical because of something called specialisation. The idea is that you have different people with different skills who produce their own goods - the road - and sell it to the consumer. To have the consumer build the road by themselves would require them buying very expensive capital equipment that has limited uses or spending a lot of time building a road when they could be working.
    Exploitation is a neutral term.
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    (Original post by otester)
    Incorrect, I have the choice between battery or free range chickens, I choose free range of my own volition.

    Corporations can only control workers and reduce social mobility with the use of the state or consent.
    Free range chicken wouldn't exist in a completely free market because all firms would be encouraged to battery farm their chicken. We saw a relevant example with the horse meat scandal where companies would lie to consumers just to ensure they could maximise profits.

    True, however corporations will always seek to use the help of the state to pass laws and there is no capitalism which can stop this.
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    A compromise must be reached. The Nordic countries have an odd combination of the 2 systems, but it works quite well over there. Too far to the left OR the right end rather badly. Too far to the left, look at Communism. Too far to the right, look at Nazism. Neither system is perfect.
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    (Original post by Tetragon213)
    A compromise must be reached. The Nordic countries have an odd combination of the 2 systems, but it works quite well over there. Too far to the left OR the right end rather badly. Too far to the left, look at Communism. Too far to the right, look at Nazism. Neither system is perfect.
    I disagree, there hasn't really been a communist system yet, Soviet Russia was an authoritarian state not a communist state it replaced capitalists with government officials which made little difference - probably made it worse. The Scandinavian countries are far ahead on economic issues however they have problems with migration.
 
 
 
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