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    Prisoners should be allowed to vote and it's not even particularly close. There is no good reason for restricting their right.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    By that logic every person would be granted the right to vote, including prisoners and babies. It's a nonsense argument

    Neuroscience tells us that the brains of 16 year olds are not fully developed and are prone to irrational and short-term decision-making. They are also more easily influenced and swayed. Add to that they have limited life experience.

    This a cynical attempt to win votes. No more, no less.
    Not to mention lords and lunatics
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So why exactly are you not arguing for voting rights from birth, why is it that a 16 year old should be able to vote but not a 15 year old? 15 not 14, 14 not 13...1 not 0?
    Because I can't get it past the party?

    I don't see why a 16-year-old who has formed an opinion should be disenfranchised, despite the fact that they are quite possibly more knowledgeable than the average adult. This sort of engagement should be encouraged, rather than attempting to build resentment.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Because I can't get it past the party?

    I don't see why a 16-year-old who has formed an opinion should be disenfranchised, despite the fact that they are quite possibly more knowledgeable than the average adult. This sort of engagement should be encouraged, rather than attempting to build resentment.
    So should a particularly engaged 10 year old be allowed to vote, with then the rest of the 10 year olds being dragged along, told who to vote for by their parents, and then probably building up an even stronger resentment for other parties than they would otherwise?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So should a particularly engaged 10 year old be allowed to vote, with then the rest of the 10 year olds being dragged along, told who to vote for by their parents, and then probably building up an even stronger resentment for other parties than they would otherwise?
    The chances of a sufficiently engaged 10-year-old are pretty tiny, but let's not pretend that vote intimidation cannot happen at any age.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    The chances of a sufficiently engaged 10-year-old are pretty tiny, but let's not pretend that vote intimidation cannot happen at any age.
    There is a difference between intimidation and simply following an instruction and being indoctrinated either directly or indirectly because of it, it is naturally more likely to be more successful on younger people (up to a certain age, which is likely at the very least 16 but likely older) and being intimidated into voting one way or another.

    Let's say 12-14 somewhere then for engagement then instead.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    By that logic every person would be granted the right to vote, including prisoners and babies. It's a nonsense argument

    Neuroscience tells us that the brains of 16 year olds are not fully developed and are prone to irrational and short-term decision-making. They are also more easily influenced and swayed. Add to that they have limited life experience.

    This a cynical attempt to win votes. No more, no less.
    Tbf, I support the right of prisoners to vote too.

    I think by the age of 14 people can form opinions, certainly if its not compulsory voting (which I do separately support) I suspect the disinterested youngsters won't vote anyway, so there wouldn't be that much difference at all.

    16 year olds can join the army. Idiots of all ages can be easily swayed.

    Tell me this then, if you're impartial, were there to be a system implemented that only accepted votes of those 16+ who were knowledgeable of politics BUT they swung to the Left, would you support it?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There is a difference between intimidation and simply following an instruction and being indoctrinated either directly or indirectly because of it, it is naturally more likely to be more successful on younger people (up to a certain age, which is likely at the very least 16 but likely older) and being intimidated into voting one way or another.

    Let's say 12-14 somewhere then for engagement then instead.
    And this doesn't happen at all age groups?

    It's a long-running joke that people in Wales inherit their tendency to vote Labour from their parents, even with the voting age at 18.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Tell me this then, if you're impartial, were there to be a system implemented that only accepted votes of those 16+ who were knowledgeable of politics BUT they swung to the Left, would you support it?
    That's an oxymoron (and they're morons).
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Prisoners should be allowed to vote and it's not even particularly close. There is no good reason for restricting their right.
    Except for their antisocial behaviour, lack of information about the outside world, susceptibility to manipulation through easy prisoner-oriented pledges, etc. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    And this doesn't happen at all age groups?

    It's a long-running joke that people in Wales inherit their tendency to vote Labour from their parents, even with the voting age at 18.
    It's a matter of susceptibility. What proportion of 10 year olds do you think would take what their parents say to be true with no questions asked, and the same at 20?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Except for their antisocial behaviour, lack of information about the outside world, susceptibility to manipulation through easy prisoner-oriented pledges, etc. :rolleyes:
    What is gained by removing the right to vote from prisoners? There is no link between their behaviour and the right to vote. They have plenty of information (after all, isn't it usually the right who complain that some prisons have - gasp - televisions), and being able to vote in their own interests is what basically everyone else does anyway (if you remove suffrage from people 'manipulated' to voting in what they perceive to be their own interests then you get approximately six people who vote Tory).
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Tbf, I support the right of prisoners to vote too.

    I think by the age of 14 people can form opinions, certainly if its not compulsory voting (which I do separately support) I suspect the disinterested youngsters won't vote anyway, so there wouldn't be that much difference at all.

    16 year olds can join the army. Idiots of all ages can be easily swayed.

    Tell me this then, if you're impartial, were there to be a system implemented that only accepted votes of those 16+ who were knowledgeable of politics BUT they swung to the Left, would you support it?

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    Are we talking about a general political test for everyone, or a test just for those in the 16-17 bracket? What would the test consist of?
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    As people have brought up votes for people under the age of 16, perhaps we should introduce Demeny Voting
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    What is gained by removing the right to vote from prisoners? There is no link between their behaviour and the right to vote. They have plenty of information (after all, isn't it usually the right who complain that some prisons have - gasp - televisions), and being able to vote in their own interests is what basically everyone else does anyway (if you remove suffrage from people 'manipulated' to voting in what they perceive to be their own interests then you get approximately six people who vote Tory).
    What's the link between their behaviour and fines, unpaid work, isolation, separation from the other sex, etc.? They're all forms of punishment and I'm simply one of the many who believe that antisocial behaviour should lead to a temporary loss of control over the society (for what it's worth in democracy, lol). The same principle is applied when a parent neglects the child, which is then taken away from his care.

    Yeah, right… :rolleyes: As if the widely accepted truth wasn't that the left get votes through left-wing populism while the right achieve the same with sensible policies and economic growth.
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    (Original post by cBay)
    As people have brought up votes for people under the age of 16, perhaps we should introduce Demeny Voting
    What a daft idea. Muslims and Gypsies would soon take over. :laugh:
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    That's an oxymoron (and they're morons).
    http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Are we talking about a general political test for everyone, or a test just for those in the 16-17 bracket? What would the test consist of?
    Test? Not sure, perhaps some basics on what a deficit is, which party has view x etc.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Test? Not sure, perhaps some basics on what a deficit is, which party has view x etc.
    And is that just for 16 year olds or across the board?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    What's the link between their behaviour and fines, unpaid work, isolation, separation from the other sex, etc.? They're all forms of punishment and I'm simply one of the many who believe that antisocial behaviour should lead to a temporary loss of control over the society (for what it's worth in democracy, lol). The same principle is applied when a parent neglects the child, which is then taken away from his care.
    No. The others are applied because they create benefits for society in the future (fines can provide the cost of rebuilding, imprisonment protects society, all act as a deterrent etc). None of these benefits are provided by removing the right to vote. When the parent neglects the child, the parent has shown themselves to be incapable of making decisions which do not harm the child. This is not the case with prisoners and voting.

    Yeah, right… :rolleyes: As if the widely accepted truth wasn't that the left get votes through left-wing populism while the right achieve the same with sensible policies and economic growth.
    While we're throwing around 'widely accepted truth', no. The widely accepted truth is that the right succeed by deluding voters based on their lies about how economics works and through anti-immigration populism while the left have their views based in sound philosophy and economics.
 
 
 
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