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    The boys in action.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy2VnIiwKhE

    Look sharp, especially Wilshere/Sterling, maybe shows the possible upsides to long injuries (not as burnt out)

    Spurs boys also looked sharp.
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    (Original post by damidude)
    Taking Wilshere is as absurd as leaving out Rooney tbh.
    So pretty sensible then? Not sure I agree - wilshere when fit is one of the best England have, but he's not fit and throwing him into the rapid turn around of an international tournament when his comeback has barely started is asking for tears.


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    So pretty sensible then? Not sure I agree - wilshere when fit is one of the best England have, but he's not fit and throwing him into the rapid turn around of an international tournament when his comeback has barely started is asking for tears.


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    He's got a month and 3 friendlies though
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    So pretty sensible then? Not sure I agree - wilshere when fit is one of the best England have, but he's not fit and throwing him into the rapid turn around of an international tournament when his comeback has barely started is asking for tears.


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    (Original post by difeo)
    He's got a month and 3 friendlies though
    I'd take Wilshere - but I understand people's concerns, especially given his history.

    Tournaments are so condensed, too. Will he manage three games in 7 days, or whatever it is? It's the same with Sturridge. If Sturridge starts and plays a full 90, he arguably won't be able to start a game three days later.

    I'd take the pair of them, though. After all, it's harder NOT to advance from the group then it is to advance - so I'd look to play a second string in the final game IF qualification is sewn up.
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    (Original post by difeo)
    He's got a month and 3 friendlies though
    3 friendlies isn't really much to get him back up to the sort of speed needed for an international tournament - he gets through all of those he'll have played 4 games in 12 months. Say England make it to the final - that's 7 matches in 4 weeks; even the group stage alone is 3 matches in 9 days. This is honestly the perfect example of rushing someone back before they're ready.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    I'd take Wilshere - but I understand people's concerns, especially given his history.

    Tournaments are so condensed, too. Will he manage three games in 7 days, or whatever it is? It's the same with Sturridge. If Sturridge starts and plays a full 90, he arguably won't be able to start a game three days later.

    I'd take the pair of them, though. After all, it's harder NOT to advance from the group then it is to advance - so I'd look to play a second string in the final game IF qualification is sewn up.
    Sturridge's performances haven't dropped when coming back from injury, the main issue is that he's injury prone. Wilshere might not even be fit. I think he's overrated too and I'm not sure where he plays in the side if England play a 4-2-3-1 as Alli surely has to play 10 and Dier has to be one of the holding midfielders.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    Sturridge's performances haven't dropped when coming back from injury, the main issue is that he's injury prone. Wilshere might not even be fit. I think he's overrated too and I'm not sure where he plays in the side if England play a 4-2-3-1 as Alli surely has to play 10 and Dier has to be one of the holding midfielders.
    Think Woy played Wilshere at the base of a 4-4-2 diamond, perhaps he would change to that formation?
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    (Original post by samir12)
    Think Woy played Wilshere at the base of a 4-4-2 diamond, perhaps he would change to that formation?
    Considering some combination of Cahill, Smalling and Stones would be the starting centre half partnership, it doesn't offer them much protection at all does it? It'd be silly to not have Dier in the squad after the season he's had.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    3 friendlies isn't really much to get him back up to the sort of speed needed for an international tournament - he gets through all of those he'll have played 4 games in 12 months. Say England make it to the final - that's 7 matches in 4 weeks; even the group stage alone is 3 matches in 9 days. This is honestly the perfect example of rushing someone back before they're ready.
    Plus he's already been fit for a month and a half, starting 2 Premier League games and 3 under 21 games. That's 2.5 months, significantly longer than a pre-season. He gets through all the friendlies and he'll have played 8 games in 2 months. And if he doesn't, if he gets injured before the first game, well we're allowed to replace him, so there's no risk.

    Not to mention there's no requirement to play every game. As Mackay says, we could easily have qualified by the third group game, which is against the weakest opposition anyway, so he can be rested there.
    And the round of 16 game (provided we don't come 3rd): if we win the group it's against 3rd from A/C/D (something like Romania/Ukraine/Czech Republic), if we come second it's vs 2nd from F(Austria/Hungary/Iceland). So if he needs a rest there instead, he can as those are games we should be winning regardless.

    (Original post by Mackay)
    I'd take Wilshere - but I understand people's concerns, especially given his history.

    Tournaments are so condensed, too. Will he manage three games in 7 days, or whatever it is? It's the same with Sturridge. If Sturridge starts and plays a full 90, he arguably won't be able to start a game three days later.

    I'd take the pair of them, though. After all, it's harder NOT to advance from the group then it is to advance - so I'd look to play a second string in the final game IF qualification is sewn up.
    We've got great options up front so there's no pressure to be starting him every game like there was in 2014. He could easily only start 1 or 2 in the entire tournament and otherwise just come off the bench.
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    (Original post by ozzyoscy)
    It's not a case of picking 6 strikers because I'd want 6 strikers, but because they're too good to exclude right now. I'd rather Rashford and Deeney than Bertrand and Lallana. There's no superb left-backs except potentially Rose, so I don't see moving someone comptetent there making much of a difference, and this is only in a worst-case scenario anyway.

    Deeney has 7 assists as well, and can play deeper in midfield and is a guy who wins headers. I'm picking him over Carroll or Rooney rather than strictly an alternative to out-and-out finishers.

    As you said, some strikers are specialists and only play up front. I think them being wide in a 4-3-3 is an option if not a preference. You'd never do that anyway unless you're down in the last 15 minutes.

    Many squads include players because they can play in several position. Dier is being included because he can play at centre-back, so Roy's only bringing 3 central defenders. I hear no complaints, just acknowledgement.

    A right-footed player on the left can immediately play a short pass along the touchline or to the central midfield, or a long pass diagonally, or simply clear it. You can say a player doesn't play left-back, but if a manager puts him there regularly, suddenly he's a 'centre back/left back' etc. on any profile or stat page. There are numerous examples through the decades of this happening. Smalling, Milner and co. have all covered there at some point and not done badly. We're talking cover, not a starting XI.
    I suppose the choice is more Defoe vs Rashford. They'd occupy the exact same role in the squad, a poacher coming off the bench if we need a goal, and would never be the front 2 playing together. As you said, Defoe is experienced, Rashford is an unknown for the opposition, but is that really enough reason to take both?
    Looking at the last Euros, Defoe played just 15 minutes, and this time around the strikers ahead of him in the pecking order are a lot better than they were then, so I don't see there being anywhere near enough minutes for both of them.

    Agree to disagree on that I guess. Personally, seeing Milner or Smalling on the teamsheet at left back against any decent pacey winger would make me a lot more worried than if it was Bertrand. It's only one single injury until we are talking starting XI rather than cover.
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    (Original post by difeo)
    We've got great options up front so there's no pressure to be starting him every game like there was in 2014. He could easily only start 1 or 2 in the entire tournament and otherwise just come off the bench.
    Indeed. That's what I'd be looking to do - and maybe with Wilshere, too. If he starts the first two games, he could be afforded a rest against Slovakia, and arguably in our first knockout game. We've got other options aside from him.

    It'll be interesting to see the three men who will drop out. I actually think Townsend has a real chance of making the tournament, considering he offers natural width and pace, which arguably nobody else does. Lallana is a tricky player who can be deployed further in field, Sterling is a wide man but has been off the boil, Milner is a jack of all trades, Vardy can be deployed out wide but that's a waste of his talents etc.
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    Time and time again we've taken a not 100% fully match fit player and put into our first XI and it's never worked out well for us.
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    I think we'll see England enjoy a similar tournament to Euro 2004, personally. I see a lot of parallels in the squad - aside from our current defence being vastly inferior. Even in 2004 in Portugal, we couldn't keep clean sheets. But we were full of goals.

    I expect we'll see similar.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    I think we'll see England enjoy a similar tournament to Euro 2004, personally. I see a lot of parallels in the squad - aside from our current defence being vastly inferior. Even in 2004 in Portugal, we couldn't keep clean sheets. But we were full of goals.

    I expect we'll see similar.
    I don't know. Our 04 squad was strong:

    James
    Neville - Campbell - Terry - Cole
    Bex - Gerrard - Scholes - Cole
    Rooney - Owen/Lamps (with 5-man midfield)

    Not many you'd swap in for our current lot except Owen and maybe James. Our squad strength looks better now at least.
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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    I don't know. Our 04 squad was strong:

    James
    Neville - Campbell - Terry - Cole
    Bex - Gerrard - Scholes - Cole
    Rooney - Owen/Lamps (with 5-man midfield)

    Not many you'd swap in for our current lot except Owen and maybe James. Our squad strength looks better now at least.
    Yeah, I'm not comparing the players like for like. I'm just saying there was an abundance of goals in that 2004 team, and I can see the same in this squad with Vardy, Kane, Rooney, Sturridge, and midfielders like Alli and Sterling capable of finding the net.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Yeah, I'm not comparing the players like for like. I'm just saying there was an abundance of goals in that 2004 team, and I can see the same in this squad with Vardy, Kane, Rooney, Sturridge, and midfielders like Alli and Sterling capable of finding the net.
    Fair enough. I'd be tempted to play 3 strikers in some of our matches.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Time and time again we've taken a not 100% fully match fit player and put into our first XI and it's never worked out well for us.
    This isn't remotely similar. Beckham in 2002 and Rooney in 2006 only picked up the injury about 6 weeks before the tournament, and at the same stage of preparation as we're at now (~20 days before the first game), the stage of recovery they where at was "he jogs for the first time since breaking his foot" for Beckham and "he can put pressure on his foot now" for Rooney.
    Whereas Wilshere's been fit for 6 weeks and played 5 games.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Yeah, I'm not comparing the players like for like. I'm just saying there was an abundance of goals in that 2004 team, and I can see the same in this squad with Vardy, Kane, Rooney, Sturridge, and midfielders like Alli and Sterling capable of finding the net.
    Agree on everything apart from the bold lol.
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    (Original post by samir12)
    Agree on everything apart from the bold lol.
    don't be salty
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    (Original post by difeo)
    This isn't remotely similar. Beckham in 2002 and Rooney in 2006 only picked up the injury about 6 weeks before the tournament, and at the same stage of preparation as we're at now (~20 days before the first game), the stage of recovery they where at was "he jogs for the first time since breaking his foot" for Beckham and "he can put pressure on his foot now" for Rooney.
    Whereas Wilshere's been fit for 6 weeks and played 5 games.
    Which 5 games are these? I've only found these:

    Sunderland - 6 minutes
    Man City - 66 minutes
    Aston Villa - 69 minutes

    Being fit and being able to run is not the same thing as being match fit.
 
 
 
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