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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    4. Men are victims over 40% of the time and although overall domestic violence numbers are coming down cases where the men are the victims are on the rise (not just % actual occurrences of dv)

    5. So do you accept that muirfield can only have male members? Or do women get special treatment?

    8. That was the point women are much more likely to get into uni, if current trends continue gender will be more important than wealth for who goes to uni. The fact that women are more likely to go to uni also proves his point.
    4. So women are still more abused, but I do agree that there should be more places to help males.

    5. I do not think that muirfield should have only male members, but that is a completely different thing all together. Women only gyms have had to be made due to the fact that men often make women feel uncomfortable in the gym, due to comments made, or just the general feeling of us not belonging there, whereas muirfield is a prestigious golfing society and the fact that they are not letting women in is (in my eyes) wrong because women have every right to golf there as men do, and it's not like there is a 100year old womens golfing club that they can go join.

    8. I don't really know how to counter this one tbh, women seem to be smarter so more men are being rejected, or more men aren't applying to go to university, I don't know the reason for more women going to university than apart from what I said before, that there is a higher population of women than men, which leads to the statistic of more women going to university. (A really bad answer, I know, if anyone knows any other contributing factors to this it would be interesting to know.)
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    Men can take their shirts off in public while women can't.
    Men get paid more for doing the same job as a woman.
    Women get longer jail time for killing an abusive husband/boyfriend, than a man who abused his wife/girlfriend and ended up killing her. (Not saying murder is okay in either case, but they should have the same sentence as the man)
    In many countries women are still not allowed to drive or vote.
    In schools I am not allowed to have my shoulders showing on a hot day as it is seen as "distracting", but boys are allowed to take their shirts off on school grounds when playing football.

    These are just a few that I can think of.

    Then there's the fact that as a female I am more likely to be raped, abused, sexually harassed in the work place, catcalled, but if I complain about it then people will ask what I was wearing, whether I was drunk, if I clearly said that I wasn't interested, that I am just making a fuss for attention, that I should enjoy the attention because it means that I am attractive.

    (I'm not saying that men don't get raped, abused, sexually harassed, and I understand that if it does happen to a man it is more likely to get brushed under the rug by the law. What I am trying to get across is that it is more likely to happen to a female.)
    Actually that is also indecent exposure under the law.
    This has been debunked many times. It simply isn't true.
    Complete tosh. The CPS has set guidelines for this.
    That is a culture issue not a gender issue.
    That is an issue in your school, not society.

    Any stats to prove this. Or is it all in your head?

    No people don't say that. And actually if it was taken to court a judge would ask the same thing as there has to be mitigating circumstances.

    Look, I'm not saying your claims aren't legitimate. I'm simply saying they are misguided or products of misrepresentation.

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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Big deal. Tbh, everybody should keep their damn clothes on.
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    Personally, I'd rather we all take our clothes off but whatever.
    This is illegal. Doesn't really happen though. What jobs specifically does this occur in, where the man and woman has equal experience/qualifications, does the man get paid more?

    Hmm okay. What about female teachers who have intercourse with a male student? Drastically different sentences there. A man that murders his wife will still probably get a very long sentence.

    Other than Saudi Arabia, what other countries can women not vote or drive?

    Bit stupid I guess. Are the boys allowed to take their tops off in class?
    1. If a guy is allowed to take his shirt off in public, I want the right to take off mine, without my breasts being sexualised.

    2. I don't know about specific jobs, but I know that it does happen regularly and businesses get away with it.

    3.I think that all genders should have equality on jail time. (That sounded really weird, so I'm going to try and explain) So the female teacher should get the same amount of time as the male teacher.4. It's a fair point, I was just naming rights that women don't have across the world.5. No, but a bare chest in the classroom is very different from me wearing a vest because it's hot.
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    (Original post by TooFocused)
    1) That's a right? Lmao ok
    2) Na that's illegal
    1) If I take my shirt off in public I would get arrested for public indecency, if a guy took his shirt off in public nothing would get done. Even though the only difference is that I have more breast tissue than he does. He still has breast tissue. He still has nipples. But it's my body that is the problem.

    2) It may be illegal, but it happens, and businesses get away with it.
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    1. If a guy is allowed to take his shirt off in public, I want the right to take off mine, without my breasts being sexualised.

    2. I don't know about specific jobs, but I know that it does happen regularly and businesses get away with it.

    3.I think that all genders should have equality on jail time. (That sounded really weird, so I'm going to try and explain) So the female teacher should get the same amount of time as the male teacher.4. It's a fair point, I was just naming rights that women don't have across the world.5. No, but a bare chest in the classroom is very different from me wearing a vest because it's hot.
    1. Okay. Let's talk about breasts and the sexualisation of them. Generally, humans are attracted to those which have more signs of the best genes. I.e. Big muscles or an attractive face. This is because these features will mean the best chance of procreation. However, this is subjective from person to person. A woman with visible breasts is more likely to have higher milk production and thus mean the child will be better off. Thus in human minds, the best genes. They are linked to procreation, so that's why they are sexualised. Deal with it.

    2. No, no it doesn't. There is not a scrap of evidence to support this. The wage gap myth is a product of the choices that women make. They will always get paid the equivalent amount as a man but in the correct proportion to the work they put in and the choices they make.

    3. This already does happen. It's the law. The CPS sets guidelines for this.

    4. Nothing to say here.

    5. Well, here's the thing. Imagine if I turned up in rugby shorts and a crop top, I imagine I would be told it's too revealing, same here, there is a question of when clothing is appropriate, you are in school to learn. Not put on a fashion show. The boys playing football are playing intense sport and thus have a reason to take of their tops. Why not wear a normal T-shirt, it won't make much difference.

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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    1) If I take my shirt off in public I would get arrested for public indecency, if a guy took his shirt off in public nothing would get done. Even though the only difference is that I have more breast tissue than he does. He still has breast tissue. He still has nipples. But it's my body that is the problem.

    2) It may be illegal, but it happens, and businesses get away with it.
    I explain this above.

    Again explained above

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    (Original post by IAmNero)
    Actually that is also indecent exposure under the law.
    This has been debunked many times. It simply isn't true.
    Complete tosh. The CPS has set guidelines for this.
    That is a culture issue not a gender issue.
    That is an issue in your school, not society.

    Any stats to prove this. Or is it all in your head?

    No people don't say that. And actually if it was taken to court a judge would ask the same thing as there has to be mitigating circumstances.

    Look, I'm not saying your claims aren't legitimate. I'm simply saying they are misguided or products of misrepresentation.

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    Men don't get called for it though.
    It still happens.
    I have seen example. (It does happen the other way round as well, I realise, look at the jail time female teachers get for sleeping with male students, compared to the other way round, the dude got longer)
    Fair enough.
    It is not just my school, the majority of schools are like this. I am sick of my body being sexualised and being told to cover up. It's a hot day, I would like to wear a vest, there shouldn't be a problem.

    In America (I struggled to find British statistics) 16% of women experienced an attempted or completed rape, compared to 3% of males. In England it is similar. Don't you ****ing dare tell me that it is all in my head, I have had to comfort friends after they've been raped or sexually assaulted, I know that I am a hell of a lot more likely to get raped by a guy, and that terrifies me. I am scared to go out at night alone because of that fact, and you have the audacity to ask me if it's all in my head?

    Yes, actually, people do say that, to a lot of rape victims. There was a short documentary about it, where rape victims were asked what their family and friends had said whenthey told them, their clothes, sober or drunkness, and how firmly they said no was brought up almost every time There does not have to be mitigating circumstances. If it was down to what people were wearing then rape would sky rocket in summer, but it doesn't. If it was down to whether someone was drunk then sober people wouldn't get raped, but do.

    My claims are not misguided or misinterpreted, I know what the **** I am on about.
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    (Original post by IAmNero)
    1. Okay. Let's talk about breasts and the sexualisation of them. Generally, humans are attracted to those which have more signs of the best genes. I.e. Big muscles or an attractive face. This is because these features will mean the best chance of procreation. However, this is subjective from person to person. A woman with visible breasts is more likely to have higher milk production and thus mean the child will be better off. Thus in human minds, the best genes. They are linked to procreation, so that's why they are sexualised. Deal with it.

    2. No, no it doesn't. There is not a scrap of evidence to support this. The wage gap myth is a product of the choices that women make. They will always get paid the equivalent amount as a man but in the correct proportion to the work they put in and the choices they make.

    3. This already does happen. It's the law. The CPS sets guidelines for this.

    4. Nothing to say here.

    5. Well, here's the thing. Imagine if I turned up in rugby shorts and a crop top, I imagine I would be told it's too revealing, same here, there is a question of when clothing is appropriate, you are in school to learn. Not put on a fashion show. The boys playing football are playing intense sport and thus have a reason to take of their tops. Why not wear a normal T-shirt, it won't make much difference.

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    1.No. I will not deal with my body being overly-sexualised by the media and society. yes, I get that what you're saying,but surely men can control their urges?

    2. I still don't believe it's a myth, there have been studies into it.

    3. It does not happen. Male teachers who sleep with female students get a longer jail time than female teachers sleeping with male students. The same way women who commit violent crime get longer jail than males.

    4. N/A

    5. I wasn't wearing the vest to look fashionable, I was wearing it because it was too hot to wear at-shirt. It does make a difference, and my shoulders being visible shouldn't be a problem.
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    4. So women are still more abused, but I do agree that there should be more places to help males.

    5. I do not think that muirfield should have only male members, but that is a completely different thing all together. Women only gyms have had to be made due to the fact that men often make women feel uncomfortable in the gym, due to comments made, or just the general feeling of us not belonging there, whereas muirfield is a prestigious golfing society and the fact that they are not letting women in is (in my eyes) wrong because women have every right to golf there as men do, and it's not like there is a 100year old womens golfing club that they can go join.

    8. I don't really know how to counter this one tbh, women seem to be smarter so more men are being rejected, or more men aren't applying to go to university, I don't know the reason for more women going to university than apart from what I said before, that there is a higher population of women than men, which leads to the statistic of more women going to university. (A really bad answer, I know, if anyone knows any other contributing factors to this it would be interesting to know.)
    5. So why do women have the right to their own place and men do not? You are employing double standards saying women can have women only places and men can not..

    8. There are a lot of reasons for this some say lack of male teachers (when there was more male teachers boys did better this has changed now it is women and girls) and also girls are marked up or boys are marked down with schoolwork. The population argument is pretty irrelevant especially when there are actually more boys born than girls in France it is 107 boys to 100 girls, in the uk there are 1.05 males for every female aged under 14 and 1.04 males under 24
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Maybe if you social conservatives weren't so worshipping of traditional ideas of masculinity very few of these would exist as problems.
    Blaming women and or/feminism just shows a complete lack of self-awareness.

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    How can we worship something that is intrinsically a part of us? 'Traditional' ideas of masculinity are a part of the male psyche and forever will be, despite feminists trying to prove otherwise.
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    1.No. I will not deal with my body being overly-sexualised by the media and society. yes, I get that what you're saying,but surely men can control their urges?

    2. I still don't believe it's a myth, there have been studies into it.

    3. It does not happen. Male teachers who sleep with female students get a longer jail time than female teachers sleeping with male students. The same way women who commit violent crime get longer jail than males.

    4. N/A

    5. I wasn't wearing the vest to look fashionable, I was wearing it because it was too hot to wear at-shirt. It does make a difference, and my shoulders being visible shouldn't be a problem.
    The studies don't compare like for like and different jobs pay differently, the common sense test proves that they get paid equally as a company cares about profits so if women are cheaper then they would be hired more (unless they are less productive).
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    1) If I take my shirt off in public I would get arrested for public indecency, if a guy took his shirt off in public nothing would get done. Even though the only difference is that I have more breast tissue than he does. He still has breast tissue. He still has nipples. But it's my body that is the problem.

    2) It may be illegal, but it happens, and businesses get away with it.
    Since you're a campaigner for women's equality, you should campaign for women to work on building sites, as plumbers, carpenters, bricklayers, fishers, electricians, farmers and mechanics. Surely it is unfair on men for having the burden of working those physically demanding jobs?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    5. So why do women have the right to their own place and men do not? You are employing double standards saying women can have women only places and men can not..

    8. There are a lot of reasons for this some say lack of male teachers (when there was more male teachers boys did better this has changed now it is women and girls) and also girls are marked up or boys are marked down with schoolwork. The population argument is pretty irrelevant especially when there are actually more boys born than girls in France it is 107 boys to 100 girls, in the uk there are 1.05 males for every female aged under 14 and 1.04 males under 24
    I'm not saying men don't have the right to their own place, but with gyms there is an alternative offered for females because men often make us feel uncomfortable in gyms, whereas men don't feel uncomfortable to going to multi-sex gyms because they're not being made to feel uncomfortable or out of place there. There is no alternative to muirfield, no other golfing club that is that old and prestigious for women to turn to.

    To be honest, I don't really know what else to say about universities apart from the fact that the government is ****ing education system over, but that's not really to do with genders and university.
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    As a feminist I agree with what you are saying completely and naturally of course men ARE oppressed too. A feminist is someone who wishes for the equality in all cases whether it being socially, politically whatever, between the sexes. The stereotypes around men need to be abolished just as much as the ones around women. Of course the stereotypes around women just sometimes seem to be more negative and imply weakness, but dismissive of this altogether, the REAL feminist movement is one to attempt to eradicate the concept of a superiority and inferiority between the genders.

    This argument can carry on for long and long balancing and attacking the advantages and disadvantages of your gender and whatnot, however that does not mean that it should be suddenly more one sided. It is a balance that people are seeking and i think the concept of some "FemiNAZI's and some Meninists", who are making this movement more negative. It's all more about finding an equal balance and there is still a heck of a long way to go.
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    (Original post by SirMilkSheikh)
    Since you're a campaigner for women's equality, you should campaign for women to work on building sites, as plumbers, carpenters, bricklayers, fishers, electricians, farmers and mechanics. Surely it is unfair on men for having the burden of working those physically demanding jobs?
    You're trying to have a dig at me here, thinking that I will back down and say no. However, you are wrong, I do believe that women should do these jobs once fully trained and qualified, just like a man. But society does impression girls away from these kinds of jobs with the idea that they are masculine, and therefore not for women. I disagree and say anyone should do those jobs as long as they are trained and qualified.
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    I'm not saying men don't have the right to their own place, but with gyms there is an alternative offered for females because men often make us feel uncomfortable in gyms, whereas men don't feel uncomfortable to going to multi-sex gyms because they're not being made to feel uncomfortable or out of place there. There is no alternative to muirfield, no other golfing club that is that old and prestigious for women to turn to.

    To be honest, I don't really know what else to say about universities apart from the fact that the government is ****ing education system over, but that's not really to do with genders and university.
    You are arguing that a place has to accept people of both genders while arguing a place doesn't, oh so muirfield is successful they lose their right to decide who the can accept, there are plenty of alternatives just because people like them less doesn't mean they do not exist.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You are arguing that a place has to accept people of both genders while arguing a place doesn't, oh so muirfield is successful they lose their right to decide who the can accept, there are plenty of alternatives just because people like them less doesn't mean they do not exist.
    I have never once said that men shouldn't or can't open their own gyms if they want to. But when there isn't alternative, or somewhere just as good for women to go, so they have to accept going toplaces that aren't as good, that's when it becomes unfair.
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    (Original post by ClockworkHobbit)
    You're trying to have a dig at me here, thinking that I will back down and say no. However, you are wrong, I do believe that women should do these jobs once fully trained and qualified, just like a man. But society does impression girls away from these kinds of jobs with the idea that they are masculine, and therefore not for women. I disagree and say anyone should do those jobs as long as they are trained and qualified.
    I thought feminists didn't agree with masculinity and femininity, are women that easily manipulated? The more simple answer is that women wont do those jobs because they don't want to - no matter how hard feminists try, women want to be feminine and men want to be masculine. You can't eradicate a person's biological urge.
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    Is troll thread k?
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    (Original post by SirMilkSheikh)
    I thought feminists didn't agree with masculinity and femininity, are women that easily manipulated? The more simple answer is that women wont do those jobs because they don't want to - no matter how hard feminists try, women want to be feminine and men want to be masculine. You can't eradicate a person's biological urge.
    It depends on the person. I know some men who are very feminine because that's what they like, and I know women who are very masculine because that's what they like. If a woman wants to be a builder then she should be a builder, and if she'd rather become a hairdresser then fine. If people want to label themselves or their jobs as masculine and feminine then they can, but who cares?

    What do you mean about the manipulation? I don't understand what it has to do with what we are on about.
 
 
 
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