Do you think of homosexuality as effeminate? Watch

Napp
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#81
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#81
Not in itself no, although some gays really do follow the stereotype in a rather disturbing way with the obscenely high pitched simpering voice, odd mannerisms .. actually just picture Gok Wan.
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Mactotaur
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#82
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(Original post by Thutmose-III)
I'm very interested in this subject...

What do you think?
A very interesting summation.
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Thutmose-III
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Napp)
Not in itself no, although some gays really do follow the stereotype in a rather disturbing way with the obscenely high pitched simpering voice, odd mannerisms .. actually just picture Gok Wan.
That's precisely my complaint; the media tends to promote the stereotypical gay men like Gok Wan, Alan Carr and Louie Spence. I understand television is a business and they broadcast what will attract eyeballs (and thus advertisers and revenue), but for many people their only images of gay people will come from television. Thus they'll be more likely to assume that all gay men either want to spend their days mincing around to show-tunes soundtracks.

The vast majority of gay men are just normal men; you don't notice them because being normal doesn't attract attention and you probably don't even realise they're gay.
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username1221160
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#84
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#84
I think one of the things that put me off being honest about my own sexuality was the stereotypes of gay men I had, informed by the media and my own encounter with obviously gay men (obvious in the sense that they met my preconceptions).

Getting out there, if anything I found the opposite to be true. Beyond "scene queens" and younger lads, I found that hyper masculinity to be far more prominent than effeminacy. It was more oiled up biceps, hairy chests, motor bikes, desert boots, and 16 stone naked muscular men wrestling. Which suits me just fine.

There was a recent documentary related to this. I haven't seen it, but it looks good.

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thunder_chunky
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#85
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#85
Yes. Just look what they've done to our military:

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Det.Hartigan
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Thutmose-III)
I am certain that effeminate behaviour among gay men is becoming rarer
If anything I have noticed it is becoming more common!
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shadowdweller
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#87
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#87
I think the two are too commonly assumed to be one and the same - there are plenty of camp people who aren't gay, and plenty of gay people who aren't camp. Perhaps effeminate behaviour is simply becoming more common in general, or people just take more notice of it lately.
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Det.Hartigan
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#88
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A previous poster just reminded me of that docu "Do I Sound Gay?" - must watch that.

(Original post by shadowdweller)
I think the two are too commonly assumed to be one and the same - there are plenty of camp people who aren't gay, and plenty of gay people who aren't camp. Perhaps effeminate behaviour is simply becoming more common in general, or people just take more notice of it lately.
I don't think it's that we notice it more...

It has always been there to some degree, but gays obviously feel like it is more acceptable now so we have much more of it. Particularly younger people (those in their early teens) I notice really getting into it. I don't know if this is because it is trendy, them being a 'queen' or just becoming the way you must be seen/heard to be if you are gay.

(I know some will disagree with me on this but) I feel in particular sometimes like asking them to stop talking like a gay with the lisp and the effeminate voice as there is really no need for it.

Talking like that doesn't make them any more gay, just makes them sound stupid since it is obviously something they are just "putting on" for effect.
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shadowdweller
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Det.Hartigan)
I don't think it's that we notice it more...

It has always been there to some degree, but gays obviously feel like it is more acceptable now so we have much more of it. Particularly younger people (those in their early teens) I notice really getting into it. I don't know if this is because it is trendy, them being a 'queen' or just becoming the way you must be seen/heard to be if you are gay.
I would argue that there is at least an element of noticing it more, given the increase in such characters on television, and the increased discussion of it in general - the more aware of something you are, the more you will notice it in general, whether or not it has actually increase. Of course, I'm not arguing that it's exclusively an increase in noticing it, merely that that is a partial factor in the matter.

As I say, it's not just something found with gay people, but perhaps it is a case that 'feminine' behaviour is more acceptable within society now, so people feel more comfortable acting in a way that is perceived to be camp. It's definitely not thought to be a way you must act if you're gay though, as there continue to be at least as many gay people who don't have that particular personality trait.

(Original post by Det.Hartigan)
(I know some will disagree with me on this but) I feel in particular sometimes like asking them to stop talking like a gay with the lisp and the effeminate voice as there is really no need for it.

Talking like that doesn't make them any more gay, just makes them sound stupid since it is obviously something they are just "putting on" for effect.
I would reiterate here that it's not 'talking gay' - as I said before, it's not the case that being camp is exclusive to gay people by any means. And certainly, though some may be putting it on, that's not the case for all of them; I highly doubt everyone does it to seem more gay, it's simply how they naturally act in many instances.
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Reality Check
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#90
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Name:  ay51811481wales-player-gare-e1369249324786.jpg
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One size doesn't fit all.
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Det.Hartigan
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#91
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(Original post by Reality Check)
One size doesn't fit all.
I was actually thinking of Gareth Thomas going through this thread. A prime example of how someone can be gay and not feel the need for any of those nonsensical traits - being overly camp, mincing, the funny voice with the lisp...

(Original post by shadowdweller)
though some may be putting it on, that's not the case for all of them; I highly doubt everyone does it to seem more gay
I have yet to come across one that hasn't been "putting it on" and I have met plenty. Yet look at the above example and he gets on just fine in society without using the gay voice.
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shadowdweller
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#92
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(Original post by Det.Hartigan)
I have yet to come across one that hasn't been "putting it on" and I have met plenty. Yet look at the above example and he gets on just fine in society without using the gay voice.
Surely you have no way to know if someone is putting it on or not? Particularly if you have only met them briefly or in passing.

There is also the point of anecdotal evidence too, of course, as your experiences don't necessarily extrapolate well to the general population.

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chelseadagg3r
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#93
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I don't think there are two types of gay men, no. I think people just have different personalities. It's the same with any gender or sexual orientation.
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Det.Hartigan
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#94
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#94
(Original post by chelseadagg3r)
I don't think there are two types of gay men, no. I think people just have different personalities.
But is it a personality thing, or purely they are putting it on because they feel some need to?


(Original post by shadowdweller)
Surely you have no way to know if someone is putting it on or not?

There is also the point of anecdotal evidence too, of course, as your experiences don't necessarily extrapolate well to the general population.
In some cases, no. But I am also thinking of particularly extreme cases.

We are only talking online so comparisons are not possible, but some of those I have met I would challenge you if you met them also to tell me they were not "putting it on". Think of a man that talks almost like a woman, almost bordering on that of transgender.

While anecdotal, it doesn't always take a linguistics expert to work such things out.
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chelseadagg3r
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#95
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(Original post by Det.Hartigan)
But is it a personality thing, or purely they are putting it on because they feel some need to?
I imagine some may put it on, others don't. Similar to how some people play dumb whereas others don't. Not every single person is putting it on.
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Det.Hartigan
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#96
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
Surely you have no way to know if someone is putting it on or not?
Just re-reading my own post(s), something else to add...

While you mention there is no way to know if they are putting it on, the flip side is that it is so ingrained that it is either a habit or a learned behaviour, but either way - an acquired trait.
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shadowdweller
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#97
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(Original post by Det.Hartigan)
In some cases, no. But I am also thinking of particularly extreme cases.

We are only talking online so comparisons are not possible, but some of those I have met I would challenge you if you met them also to tell me they were not "putting it on". Think of a man that talks almost like a woman, almost bordering on that of transgender.

While anecdotal, it doesn't always take a linguistics expert to work such things out.
It may be the case that some are putting it on, of course - don't get me wrong, I do agree with you there. The argument is more so with whether it's most of them, or merely some; I'm arguing for the latter, whilst from the impression I have, you seem to be arguing for the former?
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Det.Hartigan
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#98
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
The argument is more so with whether it's most of them, or merely some; I'm arguing for the latter, whilst from the impression I have, you seem to be arguing for the former?
Probably correct, but just to clarify (as per my above point), they are not all necessarily "forcibly" putting it on all the time, some probably do it as a long-term habit or learned behaviour but this is just leaning more to the idea that they were not born with it.
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shadowdweller
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#99
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(Original post by Det.Hartigan)
Probably correct, but just to clarify (as per my above point), they are not all necessarily "forcibly" putting it on all the time, some probably do it as a long-term habit or learned behaviour but this is just leaning more to the idea that they were not born with it.
I guess that puts us onto another debate in a sense, of whether any personality trait is inherent a birth, or whether we learn all of them; I can see an argument for either, I suppose, which would put your side of the debate in a different light overall!
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