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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    I'm not sure that we do, we're certainly not in the kind of position of power as a group that would make these things universal in the way that they are.

    Do you have anything further on this?
    What I'm saying is I don't think males are causing any more harm than women themselves.

    There are many stereotypes that both men and women subscribe to a lot of the time:
    • "My husband should be the provider" - Coincidentally, as a man, I subscribe to this, but I understand it is not always possible 100% of the time. My girlfriend and I earn a very similar income.
    • Diamonds are forever - De Beers marketing campaign started somewhere around 1930s (I think) which would have women question any ring that didn't have a diamond and make many a man unable to afford a diamond ring inadequate.
    Those are just two and they do not only affect women but also men.a
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    (Original post by d-_-b)
    What I'm saying is I don't think males are causing any more harm than women themselves.

    There are many stereotypes that both men and women subscribe to a lot of the time:
    • "My husband should be the provider" - Coincidentally, as a man, I subscribe to this, but I understand it is not always possible 100% of the time. My girlfriend and I earn a very similar income.
    • Diamonds are forever - De Beers marketing campaign started somewhere around 1930s (I think) which would have women question any ring that didn't have a diamond and make many a man unable to afford a diamond ring inadequate.
    Those are just two and they do not only affect women but also men.a
    The husband as a provider is linked with the woman as carer, a role we all associate with because of it as a long standing gender role. One that we are socialised into - women only biologically have to give birth and recover from that and then they can be right back to work.

    The diamonds are forever campaign, were the executives that made that male? Certainly the people running the business would have been male.
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    Radical Feminsim, yes.
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    Those who think feminism is no longer needed tend to hold sexist values themselves. A common item on a prejudice scale is often along the lines of "Racism against blacks is no longer a problem in the US, or sexism no longer exists in the Western world".

    Such beliefs are often held by those who are prejudice because they simply don't see the sexism, to them it's just justified behaviour/ attitudes. To them it's perfectly rational.

    I'm quite tempted to post a sexism questionnaire on TSR and see how people do. I can hazard a guess there'll be quite a relation between those who make anti-feminism threads and sexist attitudes.


    I did post an implicit measure to a man on here once, didn't hear back about his result. One wonders why...
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    The husband as a provider is linked with the woman as carer, a role we all associate with because of it as a long standing gender role. One that we are socialised into - women only biologically have to give birth and recover from that and then they can be right back to work.

    The diamonds are forever campaign, were the executives that made that male? Certainly the people running the business would have been male.
    Yes, women are the carers throughout history. I don't know to which religious beliefs you subscribe but it is even so in Christianity (to which I subscribe).

    Therefore, it is fair to deduce centuries ago it's very likely women were a lot stronger than they are today (on average), as they would have tended to children and worked around the house and in the fields from time-to-time.

    Somehow, and I don't know how, it's become all about the clothes, the make-up, the managerial position etc. I don't think any sane man would ever have prevented his wife from working at a bank in the 1600s for example. I do agree that the bank may very well not have allowed it (just making an example, I have no historical basis for this).

    Where I live there are very few households that can survive unless both mom and dad had a full-time job. A lot of men can no longer reasonably provide for their women, because the world is a lot more competitive now and some jobs have seceded to technology as well. Sometimes I think people don't understand this. It's all good if you also want to hold a high paying job in light of equal rights, but then also be a provider. Many women want it going for them both ways.

    Yes, those would have been men at De Beers I believe. Influencing people through the media (women in this case) in order to put pressure on their other halves (the men).

    This is one of the reasons I think it would be ideal if men could be the sole breadwinners in a relationship, my girlfriend agrees with me. That way I can work and pay the bills and she can look after the children, because too much of modern society is being raised by the television.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    There never is a point - the forum is plagued with them and they get nowhere.
    Because feminists are stubborn

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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Those who think feminism is no longer needed tend to hold sexist values themselves. A common item on a prejudice scale is often along the lines of "Racism against blacks is no longer a problem in the US, or sexism no longer exists in the Western world".

    Such beliefs are often held by those who are prejudice because they simply don't see the sexism, to them it's just justified behaviour/ attitudes. To them it's perfectly rational.

    I'm quite tempted to post a sexism questionnaire on TSR and see how people do. I can hazard a guess there'll be quite a relation between those who make anti-feminism threads and sexist attitudes.


    I did post an implicit measure to a man on here once, didn't hear back about his result. One wonders why...
    But sexism is subjective, so it's a double edged sword

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    Honestly women in Africa, South Asia and the Middle East need feminism a lot more than Western women.
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    The short answer: no
    The long answer: To say that feminism in “the 1st world” is no longer needed shows a clear lack of understanding of what feminism means or entails. Feminism is the movement which fights for female liberation and, as you might’ve guessed; equality. And while at first glance women and men do /seem/ equal, with a smidge of critical thinking and a few minutes spent actually listening to women, you’ll soon find feminism is still sorely needed by women all over the world.

    I do need to point out though that if you are a man, your opinion on feminism doesn’t mean s**t. You’re not a woman, so you will never be able to fully understand the experiences of women. What you can do is sit down and listen, and if you actually care about women you’ll trust their stories and respect their experiences.

    Female oppression has definitely lessened in the past hundred or so years, that’s very true. We can vote, work, divorce an abusive partner, have abortions when we need and want to(Sadly not everywhere, not even in the “1st world”) and many other basic human rights! Thing is though women are still facing oppression on every level of society. We have the classic example of women earning less than men even though they’re doing the same job and have the same amount of experience (in sweden it has been reported that women earn around 17% less than men, for example), this a clear injustice, and yet it’s still happening.
    In Sweden it was estimated(based on calls to women’s helplines and law bureaus) that 70 rapes a day go unreported. Why do they go unreported? Fear and lack of knowledge. “What did you wear? Did you drink? Did you lead him on? Is he your boyfriend/husband?” pretty much every rape victim that comes forward is shamed, humiliated or just plain not believed. This is what is often called rape culture at work. Rape culture says that a woman doesn’t know when she’s been assaulted, that it’s the victim’s fault because it’s “their responsibility” to not do anything that could EVER put them at risk, instead of men’s responsibility(A vast majority of rapes are committed by men, no matter the gender of the victim) to not ****ing rape. (this website explains it in a really good way, and provide lots of good links to examples!)

    This is probably getting a bit to long for a simple forum post so i'll just finish by saying that as long as every single woman i've ever met has a story in which men touched them without permission, yelled something at them in the street or simply refused to take a no because they have been taught they are entitled to women and their bodies, then i'd say feminism is pretty ****ing needed.

    (also like?????? oppression isn't a contest?????? "they need feminism more"????? it's entirely possible to fight for women in for example saudia arabia and sweden at the same time????)
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    (Original post by julydays)
    The short answer: no
    The long answer: To say that feminism in “the 1st world” is no longer needed shows a clear lack of understanding of what feminism means or entails. Feminism is the movement which fights for female liberation and, as you might’ve guessed; equality. And while at first glance women and men do /seem/ equal, with a smidge of critical thinking and a few minutes spent actually listening to women, you’ll soon find feminism is still sorely needed by women all over the world.

    I do need to point out though that if you are a man, your opinion on feminism doesn’t mean s**t. You’re not a woman, so you will never be able to fully understand the experiences of women. What you can do is sit down and listen, and if you actually care about women you’ll trust their stories and respect their experiences.

    Female oppression has definitely lessened in the past hundred or so years, that’s very true. We can vote, work, divorce an abusive partner, have abortions when we need and want to(Sadly not everywhere, not even in the “1st world”) and many other basic human rights! Thing is though women are still facing oppression on every level of society. We have the classic example of women earning less than men even though they’re doing the same job and have the same amount of experience (in sweden it has been reported that women earn around 17% less than men, for example), this a clear injustice, and yet it’s still happening.
    In Sweden it was estimated(based on calls to women’s helplines and law bureaus) that 70 rapes a day go unreported. Why do they go unreported? Fear and lack of knowledge. “What did you wear? Did you drink? Did you lead him on? Is he your boyfriend/husband?” pretty much every rape victim that comes forward is shamed, humiliated or just plain not believed. This is what is often called rape culture at work. Rape culture says that a woman doesn’t know when she’s been assaulted, that it’s the victim’s fault because it’s “their responsibility” to not do anything that could EVER put them at risk, instead of men’s responsibility(A vast majority of rapes are committed by men, no matter the gender of the victim) to not ****ing rape. (this website explains it in a really good way, and provide lots of good links to examples!)

    This is probably getting a bit to long for a simple forum post so i'll just finish by saying that as long as every single woman i've ever met has a story in which men touched them without permission, yelled something at them in the street or simply refused to take a no because they have been taught they are entitled to women and their bodies, then i'd say feminism is pretty ****ing needed.

    (also like?????? oppression isn't a contest?????? "they need feminism more"????? it's entirely possible to fight for women in for example saudia arabia and sweden at the same time????)
    In Sweden it was estimated(based on calls to women’s helplines and law bureaus) that 70 rapes a day go unreported. Why do they go unreported?
    Fear and lack of knowledge. “What did you wear? Did you drink? Did you lead him on? Is he your boyfriend/husband?” pretty much every rape victim that comes forward is shamed, humiliated or just plain not believed

    This just proves how stupid you are, i'm not even sure if i need to expalin why. People with a brain will see this, maybe in 15 years when you understand how things work you will too. Idiot.
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    (Original post by Tomlarg)
    In Sweden it was estimated(based on calls to women’s helplines and law bureaus) that 70 rapes a day go unreported. Why do they go unreported?
    Fear and lack of knowledge. “What did you wear? Did you drink? Did you lead him on? Is he your boyfriend/husband?” pretty much every rape victim that comes forward is shamed, humiliated or just plain not believed

    This just proves how stupid you are, i'm not even sure if i need to expalin why. People with a brain will see this, maybe in 15 years when you understand how things work you will too. Idiot.
    lol ok
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Those who think feminism is no longer needed tend to hold sexist values themselves. A common item on a prejudice scale is often along the lines of "Racism against blacks is no longer a problem in the US, or sexism no longer exists in the Western world".

    Such beliefs are often held by those who are prejudice because they simply don't see the sexism, to them it's just justified behaviour/ attitudes. To them it's perfectly rational.

    I'm quite tempted to post a sexism questionnaire on TSR and see how people do. I can hazard a guess there'll be quite a relation between those who make anti-feminism threads and sexist attitudes.


    I did post an implicit measure to a man on here once, didn't hear back about his result. One wonders why...
    Dude, don't you want people to make use of their own personal freedoms and choice?
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    (Original post by TrueDetective01)
    Dude, don't you want people to make use of their own personal freedoms and choice?
    I don't understand what you're trying to say.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Honestly women in Africa, South Asia and the Middle East need feminism a lot more than Western women.
    And children dying of starvation in Africa need more attention than those from deprived backgrounds in the UK. Does that mean we should ignore the Uk children? No.

    I honestly think that's piss poor logic.
    Let's not target any social issues in our country because there's a lot worse out there? Why not focus on both? There's no limit to caring.
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    (Original post by IAmNero)
    But sexism is subjective, so it's a double edged sword

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Only to the extent where all moral behaviours are considered subjective, in that they influence across cultures and time. We can argue that many immoral behaviours are only subjectively immoral, but that's not a sufficient excuse.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    I don't understand what you're trying to say.
    Your whole post reeks of wanting to put forward more laws and legislatures to combat inequality
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    (Original post by TrueDetective01)
    Your whole post reeks of wanting to put forward more laws and legislatures to combat inequality
    Well you aren't that perceptive because you're wrong.

    We need to target the implicit sexism. That's what makes a difference, not laws, but attitudes and values.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Well you aren't that perceptive because you're wrong.

    We need to target the implicit sexism. That's what makes a difference, not laws, but attitudes and values.
    And how do you propose changing attitudes and values?
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    And children dying of starvation in Africa need more attention than those from deprived backgrounds in the UK. Does that mean we should ignore the Uk children? No.

    I honestly think that's piss poor logic.
    Let's not target any social issues in our country because there's a lot worse out there? Why not focus on both? There's no limit to caring.
    My main point was that women have equal rights in UK in most cases (apart from the bit about salaries). In other places esp in the Middle East, South Asia and Africa women are banned from going to school, advised to cover up, forced into marriage and circumcised. Things like that happen here but there are laws against forced marriage, female circumcision and you need to tell the council if you're being homeschooled. Those women in Asia and Africa need the concept of feminism a MILLION times more because you don't have laws protecting them. I'm not saying give up on feminism completely over here but honestly, women sometimes get more rights than men and that is simply sickening.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    My main point was that women have equal rights in UK in most cases (apart from the bit about salaries). In other places esp in the Middle East, South Asia and Africa women are banned from going to school, advised to cover up, forced into marriage and circumcised. Things like that happen here but there are laws against forced marriage, female circumcision and you need to tell the council if you're being homeschooled. Those women in Asia and Africa need the concept of feminism a MILLION times more because you don't have laws protecting them. I'm not saying give up on feminism completely over here but honestly, women sometimes get more rights than men and that is simply sickening.
    You've basically just repeated what I said? Why has it got to be relative? If there's a problem, there's a problem. The fact that there exists a country worse off than us doesn't make it any less of a problem. I find the social issues children from deprived backgrounds face to be a problem in our country, the fact that an African child is worse off doesn't make that any less of a problem. The fact that a child in Africa doesn't have access to basic food, water and health care is an issue yes. But accepting that our own deprived children have issues in our country does not diminish the seriousness of the child's struggles in Africa.

    When do women get more rights than men?
 
 
 
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