Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The Uk's main market is outside Europe and they (The EU) decide who we trade with. We actually import more than export to the EU. Anyone with ambition will see the bigger global position and not just Europe. We will still be in Europe but not controlled by them (The EU). Being bullied into staying in the EU is all about money supply and not democracy.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I've tried explaining this so many times but none of you Brexiters are willing to take it in. We leave the EU. We pull out of the single market. Trade decreases. Trade negotiations are exploited. Less investment. Shop prices go up. Inflation. Job losses. The pound falls. So much of our meat, fruit and vegetables is imported from the EU, and because the cost of importing it will increase if we leave, then so will food prices.
    How about foreign countries outside of the EU no longer subjected to the Common External Tariff, so competition increases, driving down regional monopolies, decreasing food prices?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    How about foreign countries outside of the EU no longer subjected to the Common External Tariff, so competition increases, driving down regional monopolies, decreasing food prices?
    and collapsing the UK farming industry.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)
    It'd be a real shame to destroy a progressive, mutually-beneficial union because some nationalists want to wave their cocks around, but I could see it happening. The polls have always been close, and Vote Leave seem to have bottomless pits of money to throw at advertising their cause. They also seem to lack any principles whatsoever, judging by all the lies they've managed to make common belief.
    I'm curious ,which lies has leave managed to make common belief? I tried to work out what you meant and it's probably me but I just don't know .

    And I'm not sure what you mean by progressive but I guess that's ok.


    And I'm bound to point out that of course many outers are poor white uneducated English people who the politicians have scandalously ignored for many many years.

    Do you really blame these people for making the most of their one chance to make their voices heard?
    Edit actually you probably don't. You just don't want them to get what they want,just like the politicians
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by moggis)
    I'm curious ,which lies has leave managed to make common belief? I tried to work out what you meant and it's probably me but I just don't know .

    And I'm not sure what you mean by progressive but I guess that's ok.
    Here's a list of 9.

    By progressive, I mean that the EU has always introduced evidence-based policy that works. Our government is the opposite, spending £billions on policies that we knew wouldn't work before they introduced them, and we saw after they introduced them that they didn't work.

    And I'm bound to point out that of course many outers are poor white uneducated English people who the politicians have scandalously ignored for many many years.

    Do you really blame these people for making the most of their one chance to make their voices heard?
    Edit actually you probably don't. You just don't want them to get what they want,just like the politicians
    I'm a poor, white English person, and I'm the only person in my extended family with A levels. You're right, though, and I think it's really sad. The EU has been investing in the poorest areas of the country for decades, and they've introduced and protected workers' rights for the people that need it the most. Meanwhile our government has left half of the country to rot, and is actively trying to repeal huge portions of our rights, and yet they've somehow managed to convince these poor idiots that it's the EU that's out to get them.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Yeh, because Parents always put their children first in a divorce.
    This isn't a divorce.

    We joined a customs union that has pretensions to becoming a federal superstate against the wishes of its own people.

    Not a marriage.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Here's a list of 9.

    By progressive, I mean that the EU has always introduced evidence-based policy that works. Our government is the opposite, spending £billions on policies that we knew wouldn't work before they introduced them, and we saw after they introduced them that they didn't work.



    I'm a poor, white English person, and I'm the only person in my extended family with A levels. You're right, though, and I think it's really sad. The EU has been investing in the poorest areas of the country for decades, and they've introduced and protected workers' rights for the people that need it the most. Meanwhile our government has left half of the country to rot, and is actively trying to repeal huge portions of our rights, and yet they've somehow managed to convince these poor idiots that it's the EU that's out to get them.

    Having gone through the list of lies I think they're a load of red herrings.

    Obviously I can't read people's minds so this is just what I think to be likely from 1000s of comments I've read over the years and I really really don't think 90% of the people who will vote out will be doing so because of those lies.

    In fact I think those lies are aimed at floating voters if anything.

    The thing about those lies is that the other side can easily say they are lies and provide the facts. So what's the problem? Politicians lie. Almost everyone knows that.


    Yes the EU has done a lot for poor people in Europe.Especially the ones that have been able to move here.

    But I can tell you categorically that if I was a poor white uneducated Englishman there is only one thing I could even think of voting for. OUT.

    Yes,they may well be worse off financially but of course what the remainers just don't get is its not all about MONEY.!!!!

    Unfortunately however too many of them are disenfranchised.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)

    By progressive, I mean that the EU has always introduced evidence-based policy that works. Our government is the opposite, spending £billions on policies that we knew wouldn't work before they introduced them, and we saw after they introduced them that they didn't work.
    Where exactly was the "evidence" on which the policy to introduce the single currency (without a concomitant political union) was "based"?

    And how has it "worked."?

    Are you so ill informed that you don't realise that this TERRIBLE decision has been a total catastrophe for Europe. Seriously??

    How will Greece pay back its debt? What is the "evidence based" plan for that policy?

    Is Germany ever going to write it off? Yes or no? Well?

    (Original post by JordanL_)

    I'm a poor, white English person, and I'm the only person in my extended family with A levels. You're right, though, and I think it's really sad. The EU has been investing in the poorest areas of the country for decades, and they've introduced and protected workers' rights for the people that need it the most. Meanwhile our government has left half of the country to rot, and is actively trying to repeal huge portions of our rights, and yet they've somehow managed to convince these poor idiots that it's the EU that's out to get them.
    The EU doesn't have any money to invest in the UK. Not a single Euro. Not one It is ALL our money. You do realise that?

    Your side has no confidence in your own ideals, or the power of your own principles to influence the British electorate .

    You don't think you can persuade enough of them to vote for a Government to spend OUR money in a morally effective way.

    So you are relying on the unelected Eurocrats to dispense (a part not all) of OUR money sent to the EU back to us as development funds.

    I call that "sad", mate.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by moggis)
    Having gone through the list of lies I think they're a load of red herrings.

    Obviously I can't read people's minds so this is just what I think to be likely from 1000s of comments I've read over the years and I really really don't think 90% of the people who will vote out will be doing so because of those lies.

    In fact I think those lies are aimed at floating voters if anything.

    The thing about those lies is that the other side can easily say they are lies and provide the facts. So what's the problem? Politicians lie. Almost everyone knows that.
    You think large-scale lying in a political campaign isn't a problem because the other side can point out the lies? Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The leave campaign has spent many millions perpetuating these lies, key figures like Boris Johnson are blatantly lying on TV on a regular basis, and these lies are being picked up and spread all over social media by idiots that don't check their facts. The remain campaign doesn't have the money to combat lying on this scale.


    Yes the EU has done a lot for poor people in Europe.Especially the ones that have been able to move here.

    But I can tell you categorically that if I was a poor white uneducated Englishman there is only one thing I could even think of voting for. OUT.

    Yes,they may well be worse off financially but of course what the remainers just don't get is its not all about MONEY.!!!!

    Unfortunately however too many of them are disenfranchised.
    If it isn't about money, what's it about? Sovereignty certainly isn't going to put food on the tables of us poor white uneducated Englishmen. Too many EU regulations? Those poor white uneducated Englishmen unfortunately don't realise that the legislation Vote Leave want to repeal to save themselves some money is legislation protecting those poor white uneducated Englishmen from being exploited by their employers and their government. Turkeys voting for Christmas.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    Where exactly was the "evidence" on which the policy to introduce the single currency (without a concomitant political union) was "based"?

    And how has it "worked."?

    Are you so ill informed that you don't realise that this TERRIBLE decision has been a total catastrophe for Europe. Seriously??

    How will Greece pay back its debt? What is the "evidence based" plan for that policy?

    Is Germany ever going to write it off? Yes or no? Well?
    How dramatic. The Euro was an unfortunate mistake, but a catastrophe? Nah, not really. It barely even affects us because we aren't a part of the Eurozone. Pick out something more relevant to criticise.

    The EU doesn't have any money to invest in the U. Not a single Euro. Not one It is ALL our money. You do realise that?
    I do. That makes no difference. The EU takes that money from our government and puts it into the parts of the country that needs it. Our own government has abandoned us, while the EU hasn't. I really don't care who the money belongs to, just that it gets to where it's really needed, and the EU makes it happen. But it truly is awful that the EU take it and give it to the poor, rather than the government doling it out to the elites in the form of more tax cuts...

    Your side has no confidence in your own ideals, or the power of your own principles to influence the British electorate .

    You don't think you can persuade enough of them to vote for a Government to spend OUR money in a morally effective way.

    So you are relying on the unelected Eurocrats to dispense (a part not all) of OUR money sent to the EU back to us as development funds.

    I call that "sad", mate.
    You're absolutely right. The British electorate has repeatedly voted for a government that harms not just me, but most of the rest of the country too. People are far too easily manipulated, a lot of Tory voters are poor and don't even realize what they're voting for. So you're damn right I'll rely on the unelected Eurocrats that have done more good for this country than any British government in my life time.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Can someone explain to me, i read how we would adopt the euro in 2020, if we stay. Does this mean we will no longer have the pound? And does this mean every country part of EU will just use the euro?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)
    How dramatic. The Euro was an unfortunate mistake, but a catastrophe? Nah, not really. It barely even affects us because we aren't a part of the Eurozone. Pick out something more relevant to criticise.
    Don't you care about the Greek people then? I thought we were all "Europeans" and the dreadful old nation state was so last week?

    The point I am making is that your so called "evidenced based policies" aren't working out too well for some of the citizens of the wonderfully "progressive" European Union you champion.

    Check out the levels of unemployment:

    Greece’s G.D.P. and Unemployment Rates in EuropeFirst quarter 2015 average; *Britain is the three-month average through February.Source: Eurostat

    The ONLY reason we are doing well comparatively is that we didn't join the Euro! The non plus ultra of EU "evidence based" "progressive" policy.

    Despite the advice of the all those amazingly clever and prescient economists at the time telling us it would be a disaster if we didn't join the Euro. The very same economists who are telling everyone now that it will be a disaster is we leave the EU.


    (Original post by JordanL_)



    You're absolutely right. The British electorate has repeatedly voted for a government that harms not just me, but most of the rest of the country too. People are far too easily manipulated, a lot of Tory voters are poor and don't even realize what they're voting for. So you're damn right I'll rely on the unelected Eurocrats that have done more good for this country than any British government in my life time.
    Fair enough, you don't trust the British people.

    But you admit the total failure of the left in British politics in so doing. Your side of the political debate is finished, per your admission.

    And even if you ever do get to elect a "progressive" government here, like the Greeks did with Syriza, to what purpose will it be? The EU will slap it down. Destroy it, like they did to the Greek electorate.

    A right wing drunk, (the architect of all the Starbucks, Google, etc tax dodge deals throughout the EU) Jean Claude Juncker is your "progressive" hope.

    How marvellous!

    :rolleyes:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Don't believe the biased mainstream media. The urge for a Brexit burns within millions of our hearts.

    We Can Win This Referendum!

    • Specialist Advisor
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    The Almanis prediction market predicts that there is an 85% chance that the UK will vote to stay in the EU: Will the UK vote to remain a member of the European Union in its forthcoming referendum (the "Brexit" vote)? If you disagree, make a prediction to move the crowd average! It's worth noting that over the last 4 months the crowd average has hovered around the 75% mark, similar to the bookies odds.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    If nobody actually knows what will happen, then why would you vote to leave?
    There you have the Remain campaign in a nutshell. What a pitiful, craven, cowardly argument you all make. With nothing positive to say about our country, you implicitly accept what we all know, that the EU is a failing clusterf'ck.
    Beyond reform.

    But we can't leave because of fear. Not that bacon will cost 5 pence a pack more, but that there will be a housing crash, the worst depression since the hungry forties in the nineteenth century, with starvation and riots in the streets and a third world war.

    (Original post by tanyapotter)

    Much of the Brexit campaign is based on lies, illicit political agendas and emotion.
    The entire Remain campaign is based on lies and emotion. The emotion called fear.
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    As I've said before, free trade + membership of a 500-million-strong single market + freedom to travel, live, work in the EU without restrictions + job security + funding for scientific research and development (maybe that last one is only really important to people like me who are pursuing a career in STEM)
    You assume (because of the lies you have been told (see above) that all of these will cease to exist.

    Everything will be up in the air if we leave. It will be a wonderful opportunity for us as a free nation to carve a fresh role for ourselves in the world. With new trade arrangements, new funding for scientific research, new collaborations, possibilities for our people.

    Where you cower in fear and see only threat, I see opportunity.

    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    are infinitely more important to the average Briton's quality of life than ambiguous things like patriotism, taking back control (more like handing control to the wonderful Tories?) and, to some extent, even national identity.
    There we have it also in a nutshell. You admit you have no patriotism, that this country means nothing to you.

    I feel sorry for you, you are missing out trust me. but I put it to you that you are in a minority.

    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    The reason why Remain will win is that the British aren't foolish enough to believe Gove and Boris Johnson when they say that everything is going to be okay.
    Maybe, maybe not. The two latest polls (released today) show a majority for leave.

    You Gov Leave 45% (+ 6) Remain 41% (-1)

    TNS Leave 43% Remain 41%

    But the polls are all over the place. Unlike you I can't see the future.

    If we do vote to stay that won't be the end of it. There will be a Neverendum.
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    House prices will fall, food and product prices will go up (don't try to dispute this - it's common sense), inflation will happen, the pound will fall and jobs will be lost. The majority of us don't want to risk this, while simultaneously losing all the privileges of being an EU member state too.
    You missed one! Merkel will invade if we vote to leave and there will be Panzers rumbling down Whitehall!
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    PS. I'm not trying to attack you and you are obviously entitled to want to leave. .
    That's good of you to say.
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    and collapsing the UK farming industry.
    What does the farming industry matter? Far more important are the high tech and knowledge-based industries.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generallee)
    There you have the Remain campaign in a nutshell. What a pitiful, craven, cowardly argument you all make. With nothing positive to say about our country, you implicitly accept what we all know, that the EU is a failing clusterf'ck.
    Beyond reform.

    But we can't leave because of fear. Not that bacon will cost 5 pence a pack more, but that there will be a housing crash, the worst depression since the hungry forties in the nineteenth century, with starvation and riots in the streets and a third world war.


    The entire Remain campaign is based on lies and emotion. The emotion called fear.

    You assume (because of the lies you have been told (see above) that all of these will cease to exist.

    Everything will be up in the air if we leave. It will be a wonderful opportunity for us as a free nation to carve a fresh role for ourselves in the world. With new trade arrangements, new funding for scientific research, new collaborations, possibilities for our people.

    Where you cower in fear and see only threat, I see opportunity.


    There we have it also in a nutshell. You admit you have no patriotism, that this country means nothing to you.

    I feel sorry for you, you are missing out trust me. but I put it to you that you are in a minority.

    Maybe, maybe not. The two latest polls (released today) show a majority for leave.

    You Gov Leave 45% (+ 6) Remain 41% (-1)

    TNS Leave 43% Remain 41%

    But the polls are all over the place. Unlike you I can't see the future.

    If we do vote to stay that won't be the end of it. There will be a Neverendum.

    You missed one! Merkel will invade if we vote to leave and there will be Panzers rumbling down Whitehall!

    That's good of you to say.
    This referendum should never have happened in the first place. Those Tory backbenchers want to fix something that isn't broken just for their personal political gain, and to do this they are scaring poor, vulnerable, impressionable people into supporting a Brexit. It's regrettable, but luckily the majority of us are not Brexit morons, and Britain is going to stay.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    While I personally will vote to remain, I can see why so many want to vote to leave. I think the OP is correct, the indecisive will vote to maintain the status quo.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    When push comes to shove, I believe that the majority of undecided voters will realise that economic and job security is more important to them and their families than "taking back control" and what not, and they will vote to remain. Do people think Britain will leave or stay on the 23rd?

    let's see what the bookmakers are saying today:

    Name:  brexitodds4.png
Views: 41
Size:  3.1 KB
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    If nobody actually knows what will happen, then why would you vote to leave?

    Much of the Brexit campaign is based on lies, illicit political agendas and emotion. As I've said before, free trade + membership of a 500-million-strong single market + freedom to travel, live, work in the EU without restrictions + job security + funding for scientific research and development (maybe that last one is only really important to people like me who are pursuing a career in STEM) are infinitely more important to the average Briton's quality of life than ambiguous things like patriotism, taking back control (more like handing control to the wonderful Tories?) and, to some extent, even national identity.

    The reason why Remain will win is that the British aren't foolish enough to believe Gove and Boris Johnson when they say that everything is going to be okay. House prices will fall, food and product prices will go up (don't try to dispute this - it's common sense), inflation will happen, the pound will fall and jobs will be lost. The majority of us don't want to risk this, while simultaneously losing all the privileges of being an EU member state too.

    PS. I'm not trying to attack you and you are obviously entitled to want to leave. I'm just saying.
    Can Remainers gurantee peoples jobs? Millions of UK workers jobs have never been less secure with such a disparity between jobs and workers... It means big business can wipe their scrotum on your face and spit on you because they can replace you in a heartbeat thanks to so many people to jobs.

    Just 1 example of REMAIN job security

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...to-move-101746
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Are unpaid trial work shifts fair?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.