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Are youngsters brainwashed? watch

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    Everyone knows **** all init
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Everyone knows **** all init
    not true, ive done some pretty hard thinking and i'm 90% certain that i know 1+1 = 2.

    i will need confirmation tho
    --
    i thought this was gnna be an interesting thread but once again the focus is the eu
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    Don't diminish s.o. for following politics for a short amount of time.

    I've done much much less; it doesn't determine his credibility or worth.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If you read up thread he made a basic factual error due to his inexperience. He didn't seem to know that we vote for MEPs and last did this in 2014. I'm sorry but not knowing that extremely basic fact about the EU does damage his credibility.

    He seems to have taken on board Leave tropes and slogans at face value. If he doesn't really know what those slogans refer to then he shouldn't really be repeating them.

    I would have the same reaction if a Remainer did the same, but they tend to be more up on the actual functioning of the EU so you don't really get it from them. What Remainers do do that I can't stand is give transparently false, largely incoherent speeches on progressivism and togetherness - Eddie Izzard on QT last night for example.
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    (Original post by Inexorably)
    not true, ive done some pretty hard thinking and i'm 90% certain that i know 1+1 = 2.

    i will need confirmation tho
    --
    i thought this was gnna be an interesting thread but once again the focus is the eu
    Only 90% sure mate?
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Only 90% sure mate?
    Ye ukno i couldda been brainwashed into believing it
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    What is all this hysteria about an EU army? Nobody is proposing one, it really is the British equivalent of American birthers, just so completely unfounded in fact that it is almost impossible to argue against.

    The EU has given us far more referenda than the UK ever has when it has been fiddling with our constitution. Most recently the Tories were trying to co-opt MPs who had been elected to the UK parliament into a virtual English one, which is a form of coup. None of your sort were calling for a referendum then.

    The Westminster system is far more undemocratic than the EU one. It uses FPTP, has an unelected upper house and the executive is not separated from the legislature.
    Your so deluded it is unreal, come back to reality please.
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    (Original post by MightySpartacus)
    Your so deluded it is unreal, come back to reality please.
    That persons got the Stockholm syndrome
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Then it is at that point that we might vote to Leave.

    In general, whenever there is a significant change in the way the EU operates, either the EU should be holding a referendum or if not member states should be holding one on withdrawal.

    I notice much of the Brexit rhetoric, including on campaign leaflets I have received, is about what the EU might become and how a vote for Remain is effectively a vote for greater integration. It is not: it is simply a vote for things to remain as they are. If the EU becomes something different in the future then at some point there will be a referendum on it.
    You're far too optimistic.
    (Note that I didn't say realistic.)

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    What is all this hysteria about an EU army? Nobody is proposing one, it really is the British equivalent of American birthers, just so completely unfounded in fact that it is almost impossible to argue against.

    The EU has given us far more referenda than the UK ever has when it has been fiddling with our constitution. Most recently the Tories were trying to co-opt MPs who had been elected to the UK parliament into a virtual English one, which is a form of coup. None of your sort were calling for a referendum then.

    The Westminster system is far more undemocratic than the EU one. It uses FPTP, has an unelected upper house and the executive is not separated from the legislature.
    Yet the unelected upper house is only a revision chamber and can only delay non-finance-based legislation for up to a year.

    Yet the commissioners have the legislative initiative and in which no member state has a representative. (It's illegal for a commissioner to work on behalf of a member state, even if it's his own.)

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Brainwashed?

    "£350 million to the EU..." - lie

    "Turkey is joining the EU..." - lie

    "EU controls our borders" - lie

    "EU is undemocratic" - lie

    And so on. I think the people that are brainwashed are the ones that are incessantly repeating a list of statements that are all categorically wrong, while not having a single rational, original thought. The people who formed their entire decision on what they read in the tabloids and what they heard on Facebook.
    turkey will join at some stage
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    I hate the new argument saying the UK is less democratic. A change in a more majoritarian voting system did not pass because although FPTP i not proportional and I do not like it, it normally elects a strong government which is what is best for a strong country.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    You're far too optimistic.
    (Note that I didn't say realistic.)



    Yet the unelected upper house is only a revision chamber and can only delay non-finance-based legislation for up to a year.

    Yet the commissioners have the legislative initiative and in which no member state has a representative. (It's illegal for a commissioner to work on behalf of a member state, even if it's his own.)

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Correct, that's the job of the council of ministers which also proposes legislation. We hear far less about it from Leavers though.

    So we have two bodies with the legislative initiative made up of domestically appointed ministers: one body acting for the EU and one acting for the member states. Sounds sensible enough to me.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Correct, that's the job of the council of ministers which also proposes legislation. We hear far less about it from Leavers though.

    So we have two bodies with the legislative initiative made up of domestically appointed ministers: one body acting for the EU and one acting for the member states. Sounds sensible enough to me.
    Of course it's not.

    That means the commissioners are supposed to push the agendas of the EU, instead of its constituent member states.
    And if the agenda is EU expansionism? Well...

    Also the commissioners can ignore proposals for legislation by the MEPs.

    Denial's not just a river in Egypt mate.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    Of course it's not.

    That means the commissioners are supposed to push the agendas of the EU, instead of its constituent member states.
    And if the agenda is EU expansionism? Well...

    Also the commissioners can ignore proposals for legislation by the MEPs.

    Denial's not just a river in Egypt mate.
    Well yes, commissioners are supposed to act in the interests of the EU, ministers in council in the interests of their member states. Therefore there is balance.

    I agree that the parliament ought to be able to propose legislation. I suspect it was designed this way so domestic politicians ultimately had control of the EU rather than MEPs with no domestic political links.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Well apart from expanding the franchise we haven't changed it since 1832 and nobody seems to care enough. It's generally a waste of time expecting the British public to pursue any idea more sophisticated than what's in front of their face. Generally we have to have a massive war before people wake up enough to get anything meaningful done.

    Again there wasn't a blink of an eyelid when the government tried to push through the EVEL coup, passed the dictatorial Fixed Term Parliaments Act, passed various retroactive legislation, changed to individual voter registration to try and get young people and renters to drop off, etc. Nobody in Britain cares a fig for democracy other than when there is an opportunity to indulge their jingoism and stick it to those poncy Europeans.

    The domestic Spanish government in Madrid is the one which keeps blocking the Catalonian referendum. In fact in general the EU likes to support subnational regions because it helps to erode the traditional nation states of Europe.
    You are one of the thoughtful ones in the remain side..if more were like that I'd be closer to remain. I will admit there is a lot of truth in this post.
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    I could have been into politics 5 minutes and found the fact that the the £350m-a-week figure comes from the Office for National Statistics. It is there in black and white! COME ON ENGLAND!!!!


    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    As he said up-thread he doesn't know himself and has only been following politics since last year if that.

    It shows how effectively the Leave lies hook into the average disengaged voter: because they are based on the same universal instincts that mean we will all be watching England tomorrow night.
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    I could have been into politics 5 minutes and found the fact that the the £350m-a-week figure comes from the Office for National Statistics. It is there in black and white! COME ON ENGLAND!!!!
    Yes, 350m/wk or 18bn/yr is the gross notional contribution to the EU, which is calculated equitably according to certain econometric data.

    We get a rebate (discount) of 5bn for being so special.

    We therefore send 13bn

    The EU spends 4.5bn of that on projects internal to the UK.

    The remaining 8.5bn stays in Brussels so they can make laws about protecting the environment, protecting workers' rights and tax transparency which we are too pathetic and spineless to do.
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    (Original post by govandpolitics)
    turkey will join at some stage
    No, they won't. The EU needs a unanimous vote in order to allow new members to join. There is a lot of resistance from some nations in the EU against Turkey joining, so there's pretty much no chance they'll get in within at least the next decade.

    (Also, if the UK leaves the EU, then ironically; Turkey will have an even lower chance of getting in, because the UK(i.e. the Tories) is one of their biggest backers atm)
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    It's worrying that our government are in favour of Turkey joining with the current immigration system in place?! It is good that a unanimous vote is required within the EU.. except this would also apply for issues or legislation to apply to Britain.. and this is worrying yet again.. how can these other EU countries know what is best for Britain.. yet get to vote?! Stupid system that needs to simply dissolve and let Countries all govern themselves!


    (Original post by Jazzyboy)
    No, they won't. The EU needs a unanimous vote in order to allow new members to join. There is a lot of resistance from some nations in the EU against Turkey joining, so there's pretty much no chance they'll get in within at least the next decade.

    (Also, if the UK leaves the EU, then ironically; Turkey will have an even lower chance of getting in, because the UK(i.e. the Tories) is one of their biggest backers atm)
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    The problem I find with young people is that most of them are schooled but not educated. Very few are interested in learning something just for the knowledge, especially that not taught as part of the school curriculum.

    I suspect the majority of users of this forum see education in terms of pieces of paper with grades on - then they either forget what they have learned after the exam or never find a use for the knowledge in real life.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Brainwashed?

    "£350 million to the EU..." - lie

    "Turkey is joining the EU..." - lie

    "EU controls our borders" - lie

    "EU is undemocratic" - lie

    And so on. I think the people that are brainwashed are the ones that are incessantly repeating a list of statements that are all categorically wrong, while not having a single rational, original thought. The people who formed their entire decision on what they read in the tabloids and what they heard on Facebook.
    EU is doing huge amounts of money printing just like the US and Japan,

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9a45a960-e...#axzz4BQIHaQ4q

    Look what I found.
 
 
 
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