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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    Charles I was quite popular with the people? Proof? Lol, I hardly think his draining of the Fens, his implementation of unparliamentary forms of money-making (ship money, distraint of knighthood, forest fines, ship money), his religious autocracy (appointing the tyrannical William Laud as Archbishop of Canterbury, forcing Arminianism on the people, forcing the Prayer Book on the Scots, punishing critics of his religious policies by having his royal courts of Star Chamber and High Commission throw them in jail, etc) makes him out to be a popular man. As a matter of fact, when the Scots invaded England in 1639 they were welcomed as liberators by the northern English population.
    Shall we list all the terrible things Cromwell did and the parliament did? Like Cromwell's war crimes? or the fact that they had to make up a law on the spot to execute a king. The turning point with regards to his popularity was when Cromwell and parliament started a propaganda war that Charles really lost his support.



    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    *Sigh*, it's clear you've been watching far too much Horrible Histories for your own good. Cromwell had nothing to do with the banning of sports or Christmas, that was all done during the Rump Parliament that began in Charles II's rule and which, though he sympathised with, he had little to do with.

    Read this:

    http://www.olivercromwell.org/faqs4.htm

    And it is simply not true that he forced people that disagreed with Puritanism to go to the New World. Many of those sent to the New World during Cromwell's rule were soldiers captured in battle during the civil wars, among them Scottish Covenanters and Irish Catholic rebels. And they deserved it too. And the first settlers in the New World arrived during Elizabeth's time, not Cromwell's.
    Orr but I like that show and ye being a supporter of banning Christmas, still means he takes the blame as technically he put them in power.

    Your second point I am not sure about to be honest. I just know that we kicked the puritans out (I didn't say Cromwell did it omg) :P I also know that there was alot of Irish and Scottish that went as well.

    Ye the whole first settlers debate thing has become been changed so many times.

    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    You complain about leftists and you want to celebrate a man who waged war against a British King, beheaded him and abolished the monarchy.
    ^^ this
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    How the hell did he turn England into ISIS? Do you even read what you type?
    He and his kind turned England into a fanatical religious state where mass hysteria and paranoia flourished resulting in sectarian conflict and witch burnings. Similar to what we seen in the Islamic State
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    (Original post by Salsa123)
    Oh nice do you have anymore details on that - for a figure like him I wish it wasn't so obscure he had just as much of a pivotal role
    The Coldstream Guards were a regiment raised personally by Monck as part of the New Model Army. It accompanied him south. When the Parliamentary Army was disbanded, it laid down its arms and took them up again in service of Charles II as the Lord General's Regiment, Monck (now Duke of Albemarle) was Lord General. At that time, regiments were named after their colonels and so it was due to change names when Monck died but rather than take the name of its new colonel, it was permanently named after where Monck crossed into England on his march.

    Although the regiment has had three royal colonels in the past, it hasn't had any since 1850 and generally the tradition has been kept that the colonel of the regiment is not a prince (the Queen is colonel in chief of all the guards regiments). The tradition is shared with the other Roundhead regiment in the army, the Life Guards.
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    (Original post by Lujubi)
    Apart from the fact that Cromwell ruled like a dictator (Lord Protectorate was his actual title), his takeover was the first step towards a constitutional monarchy and challenging the view of divine right.

    The fact I find hypocritical is that his son was 'next in line' to take his place. Screams heredity right/monarchy but without the title.

    Most of his efforts went in vain since the Cavalier Parliament came in and reversed pretty much most things militarily and politically when Charles II came to power and you've the parliament of William III to thank since they were the ones who introduced the Bill of Rights in the 1700s.

    So no, I don't think Cromwell should deserve a day.
    I'd argue that the constitutional monarchy's first step was in fact 1534 when Henry VIII separated from the Pope.

    But I agree there's no good reason for Cromwell to get any sort of commemoration.
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    (Original post by calmingforzzzz)
    and he did so when the Kings before him didn't. and his goal as Lord Protector was tolerance, and his supporters did things that he didn'tn condone.
    Cromwell became an archetypical dictator, assuming more and more personal powers because in his opinion no-one else could safely exercise power. Then financially the only people he could trust were his family and so he creates an hereditary republic.

    People like Papa Doc, Castro and Kim Il Sung don't set out to be dictators. They are leaders of a cause. What makes them dictators is when the people who should have power under the structures they set up, don't want to exercise it to further the cause but to pursue their own different agendas. So we end up with nominated Parliaments and all power passing to the leader.

    What it always shows is the quality of Washington because Revolutionary America was no less fractious that Revolutionary England or Revolutionary France. There were men willing to impose sectarian rule; men more interested in petty disputes with other colonies and men promoting agendas destructive of all government. Washington could easily have decided that he was the only man capable of keeping the show on the road.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    lol who's cromwell?
    I sincerely hope you're not English. Because every English schoolchild learnd this stuff in school.

    Or they did when I was at school :emo:
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    (Original post by calmingforzzzz)
    lolol.... Charles I deserved it. he abolished parliament,
    No he didn't. He merely did not summon one as was his right.

    levied taxes unconstitutionally,
    Experts at the time differed on this. Medieval kings had done likewise with forced loans etc. It is only afterwards that this comes to be accepted as unconstitutional.

    to say Cromwell was wrong, when he wasn't even the main mover/shaker behind the "trial" execution is pretty silly.
    That isn't right. Cromwell is clearly the main mover and shaker and everyone else is wanting Cromwell to tell them whether the King should live or die.

    Charles I caused the war,..
    Parliament denied the King's right to govern. That is an important step on our road to democracy but was unjustified by the standards of the time. The King's subjects had rebelled from their duty to him and he was entitled to crush that rebellion.
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    I sincerely hope you're not English. Because every English schoolchild learnd this stuff in school.

    Or they did when I was at school :emo:
    I am but I forgot lols. I spent most of my history lessons having some banter with the lads.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    I am but I forgot lols. I spent most of my history lessons having some banter with the lads.
    GTFO :getmecoat:
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    GTFO :getmecoat:
    Lol I always found history kinda boring tbh and so did everyone on my row so we just played phone games and had some bants
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    I sincerely hope you're not English. Because every English schoolchild learnd this stuff in school.

    Or they did when I was at school :emo:
    Never learned about him at school.

    All I know about him was that a tank was named after him.
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    (Original post by Vikingninja)
    Never learned about him at school.

    All I know about him was that a tank was named after him.
    What you're taught and what you actually learn are two different things, especially at school.

    Oliver Cromwell was an evil piece of ****. Basically, England's own Hitler.
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    What you're taught and what you actually learn are two different things, especially at school.

    Oliver Cromwell was an evil piece of ****. Basically, England's own Hitler.
    Well I never heard about him at all until I heard about the tank so yeah.
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    Where has all the freedom gone and where is Parliament?
    What happened to our individual rights and parliamentary privilege?
    Is there not a leader who will restore liberty?
    The King's courts run wild and I see good Puritans flee.

    I need a Cromwell
    I need a Cromwell to restore the rightful Parliament tonight.
    Restoring godliness, banishing tyranny and injustice from the land.

    I need a Cromwell,
    I need a Cromwell to spread Puritanism overnight.
    Stop the tyranny, abolish monarchy and sentence all the royalists to die, the royalists to die.
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    (Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
    He and his kind turned England into a fanatical religious state where mass hysteria and paranoia flourished resulting in sectarian conflict and witch burnings. Similar to what we seen in the Islamic State
    Expand.
 
 
 
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