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Leading "Vote Leave" campaigner switches sides due to lies and deceit Watch

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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    And almost every big offical bodies and represenatitive organisations in every sector are BANKROLLED AND FUNDED BY THE EU (With OUR money WE the taxpayers give the EU)

    When people call to axe the BBC does it surprise you when people like Graham Norton and Gary Lineker, who are payed massive salaries by the BBC come out in robust defence of it?
    No, but it's silly to suggest that the IMF, the World Bank or the CBI are funded by the EU. If anything, it's the other way round.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    the EU creates jobs and brings wealth to this country: that's the bare bones of it. you cannot deny this fact and you cannot continue to cover up the fact that so many jobs will be lost and so much economic insecurity will ensue if we leave.

    our economy has only grown since we became a member of the EU in 1973. the facts are all there: try to look at this objectively and realise how irresponsibly brexiters are thinking.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No, but it's silly to suggest that the IMF, the World Bank or the CBI are funded by the EU. If anything, it's the other way round.
    The same IMF that have been wrong time and time again headed by Osbournes friend Christine Lagarde who is facing criminal investigations

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/laga...rial-1.3369634
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    The same IMF that have been wrong time and time again headed by Osbournes friend Christine Lagarde who is facing criminal investigations

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/laga...rial-1.3369634
    Sure, I'm not saying they are always right - just that they aren't under the thumb of the EU.

    Anyway, the EU isn't (contrary to myth) a monolith with only one view - EU national governments and institutions have differing views about most things.
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    There are also accusation that it's Tory whips, Cameron having the Tories' position being neutral officially only

    http://order-order.com/2016/06/09/wh...mps-to-defect/
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think over the next fortnight, there are going to be quite a lot of people who have no love for the EU who will say that Leave hasn't made its case.
    The Leave campaign is **** at branding itself to be fair.

    The main rhetoric seems to be about immigrants, but that is taken as xenophobic and racist and no one wants to hear that. (Though I have a limited sample size.)

    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Perhaps. But all are trying to predict the future which is impossible. There are no facts. That said, the 350 million statement is a bare faced lie.
    I thought we paid the £55 million/day (where the "£350 a week" comes from.).
    Then when considering rebate it was sth like £35 million/day.
    Then when considering the EU budget spent on the UK (which we don't get to decide though) it moves it down to £24 million/day, but this comes with an EU label; propaganda.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The Treasury would go with

    D) Keep the money.

    Just glibly saying it would go to the NHS is absolute tripe, the Leavers would have no more say over this money than they do now.
    Well no but if they win they will have more influence.

    Option D is option C use it for other things

    Conservative supporter and proud

    #voteleave
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No, but it's silly to suggest that the IMF, the World Bank or the CBI are funded by the EU. If anything, it's the other way round.
    Except for where the CBI admit they receive EU funds: http://news.cbi.org.uk/business-issu...union/faqs-eu/

    None media sources for the other two are somewhat harder to find

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Except for where the CBI admit they receive EU funds: http://news.cbi.org.uk/business-issu...union/faqs-eu/

    None media sources for the other two are somewhat harder to find

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    Gosh yes, the £148,000 a year they get paid by the EU to hand over survey data must make all the difference to the deliberations of an organisation with a £25m a year budget.

    Try harder./
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Except for where the CBI admit they receive EU funds: http://news.cbi.org.uk/business-issu...union/faqs-eu/

    None media sources for the other two are somewhat harder to find

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    Blimey - 0.6% of their annual income.

    They're clearly in the EU's pockets. I can't imagine how we can accept anything they say, or what the 190,000 businesses they talk to say.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No, but it's silly to suggest that the IMF, the World Bank or the CBI are funded by the EU. If anything, it's the other way round.
    The key thing to remember is although they are independent. They advise many nations on the best cause of action so even if leaving is best for Britain they may believe that it will be bad for too many other nations.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Gosh yes, the £148,000 a year they get paid by the EU to hand over survey data must make all the difference to the deliberations of an organisation with a £25m a year budget.

    Try harder./
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Blimey - 0.6% of their annual income.

    They're clearly in the EU's pockets. I can't imagine how we can accept anything they say, or what the 190,000 businesses they talk to say.
    It's only 148k, but then I'm not the one saying that there was no cash flow

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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Blimey - 0.6% of their annual income.

    They're clearly in the EU's pockets. I can't imagine how we can accept anything they say, or what the 190,000 businesses they talk to say.
    I imagine the top executives of the CBI sit around a statue of Jean Claude Juncker each morning and try to divine his thoughts.
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    Agree with her. The leave campaign really have embraced post-truth politics. Simply make up an outlandish claim and when asked to prove it, speak of there being a massive conspiracy against you.

    The £350 million figure is an outright lie. As is the claim that if we leave the likes of johnson and Gove will pour money into the. NHS.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Agree with her. The leave campaign really have embraced post-truth politics. Simply make up an outlandish claim and when asked to prove it, speak of there being a massive conspiracy against you.

    The £350 million figure is an outright lie. As is the claim that if we leave the likes of johnson and Gove will pour money into the. NHS.
    That can very easily be adjusted to slate your latest god.

    "The remain campaign really have embraced post-truth politics. Simply make up an outlandish claim and when asked to prove it, speak of there being a massive conspiracy against you.

    The idea that the world will descend into war if we leave is an outright lie. The EU itself does not prevent war in Europe, NATO and the generally strong ties between the powers of Europe keep the peace. As is the claim that the EU will refuse to do a trade deal with us, we are their single biggest export market by quite a distance"

    Then again, you never have been very good at electoral pragmatism, have you?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That can very easily be adjusted to slate your latest god.

    "The remain campaign really have embraced post-truth politics. Simply make up an outlandish claim and when asked to prove it, speak of there being a massive conspiracy against you.

    The idea that the world will descend into war if we leave is an outright lie. The EU itself does not prevent war in Europe, NATO and the generally strong ties between the powers of Europe keep the peace. As is the claim that the EU will refuse to do a trade deal with us, we are their single biggest export market by quite a distance"

    Then again, you never have been very good at electoral pragmatism, have you?

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    Have the remain campaign actually said that the world will descend into war and/or that we will never get a trade deal with the EU?

    All I remember seeing are comments that the EU has helped keep the peace in the EU and that a trade deal with the EU would take time and not be on the same favourable terms we have now.

    Both statements are undoubtedly true.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That can very easily be adjusted to slate your latest god.

    "The remain campaign really have embraced post-truth politics. Simply make up an outlandish claim and when asked to prove it, speak of there being a massive conspiracy against you.

    The idea that the world will descend into war if we leave is an outright lie. The EU itself does not prevent war in Europe, NATO and the generally strong ties between the powers of Europe keep the peace. As is the claim that the EU will refuse to do a trade deal with us, we are their single biggest export market by quite a distance"

    Then again, you never have been very good at electoral pragmatism, have you?

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    Cameron did not claim there would be a war. That's also not plastered on remain busses like the 350 million is. Moreover there is a difference between a prediction and a fact.

    The leave campaign are outright liars.
    And it's funny that as always you never engage with the criticism, you just go on the offensive.

    I'm incredibly pragmatic, hence I didn't vote Corbyn and want to stay in the EU.

    But I like truth. Unfortunately the leave camp are engaging exclusively in post truth politics.


    You're just a Tory basher though aren't you? Remind me which one of us is supporting our Tory pm in this debate?
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    The fact that we need to pay a membership fee to be in a "single market" is plain and simple bullying. If it's £350million or £120million makes little difference (per person) and it is the fact we need to pay this membership fee that is annoying!!

    Why can't we just buy things and sell things like normal people.. instead of adding duty or having to pay extortion money to the almighty EU!
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Cameron did not claim there would be a war. That's also not plastered on remain busses like the 350 million is. Moreover there is a difference between a prediction and a fact.

    The leave campaign are outright liars.
    And it's funny that as always you never engage with the criticism, you just go on the offensive.

    I'm incredibly pragmatic, hence I didn't vote Corbyn and want to stay in the EU.

    But I like truth. Unfortunately the leave camp are engaging exclusively in post truth politics.


    You're just a Tory basher though aren't you? Remind me which one of us is supporting our Tory pm in this debate?
    Nor has vote leave said what the money was spent on. And you're so great at electoral pragmatism that you seem to forget what always happens in the final budgets of a Parliament, I'll give you a hint, it starts with "give" and ends in "aways." If you reject the notion that with an extra £9bn to play with (assuming all spending from the EU is maintained in a domestic capacity, which it likely won't in its entirety) there will be no spending increases or general tax cuts and it will simply go into deficit reduction you clearly fail in electoral pragmatism.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That can very easily be adjusted to slate your latest god.

    "The remain campaign really have embraced post-truth politics. Simply make up an outlandish claim and when asked to prove it, speak of there being a massive conspiracy against you.

    The idea that the world will descend into war if we leave is an outright lie. The EU itself does not prevent war in Europe, NATO and the generally strong ties between the powers of Europe keep the peace. As is the claim that the EU will refuse to do a trade deal with us, we are their single biggest export market by quite a distance"

    Then again, you never have been very good at electoral pragmatism, have you?
    Sure, except for the fact that David Cameron literally has never said that. It was made up, funnily enough, by the Leave campaign. If you disagree, you're welcome to provide some evidence of him saying it, but you can't.

    The difference is that when we say the Leave campaign are lying, we can actually point to their lies instead of quoting ******** headlines from the Daily Express. They've spent millions on billboard ads saying "we give £350m/week to the EU" and "Turkey is joining the EU". All things that the leave campaign have officially and repeatedly said and advertised, all things that are verifiably untrue.
 
 
 
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