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  • View Poll Results: Have you made up your mind about how to vote yet?
    Yes I'm definite about my vote
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    They say that because it will make students not speak up if they think they are a minority in their peers.
    Who is the 'they' you're referencing?
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    Have they taught you about opportunity costs?
    So, regarding costs of accessing the EU single market, a la Norway.

    Norway pay the EU roughly the same per head as the UK for no say on what happens. At all. That would be a great deal for the UK...

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...orwegian-model
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    (Original post by nverjvlev)
    Actually, we do. Free movement of people is part of our trade deal with the EU. If we vote to leave, all the eastern European workers will move to countries like France and Germany for work because they would need work visas to work here. Also, you forget that we have a right-wing government who tend to oppose immigration.
    They won't move to France or Germany because they don't want to be there they choose the uk because of the great opportunities. The people already here aren't going to leave once we Brexit. A work permit system would be appropriate so people can still freely travel but unable to work without a work permit.

    You only have to look at the unemployment in those countries to understand why they won't be welcomed to France Spain Portugal Italy and Greece.

    When you talk about the government now yes I agree but we need to slow immigration for the next few years anyways to get back on our feet and by then we can vote in a party which will support our immigration needs.

    The opportunity costs actually lie in where our biggest market is, services which do not benefit from the eu Infact they are hindered yet we still have the financial capital of the world. That speaks volumes on how our location and language is supreme in this area.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    So, regarding costs of accessing the EU single market, a la Norway.

    Norway pay the EU roughly the same per head as the UK for no say on what happens. At all. That would be a great deal for the UK...

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...orwegian-model
    And only accept a tiny amount of EU law, and have the freedom to reject any EU law they want.

    It would indeed be a good deal, you're right.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    So, regarding costs of accessing the EU single market, a la Norway.

    Norway pay the EU roughly the same per head as the UK for no say on what happens. At all. That would be a great deal for the UK...

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...orwegian-model
    I don't want to be like Norway but I will say that Norway have a much better deal than we do.

    Their contribution is actually their own decision as a foreign aid to the south European countries with newly created democratic governments.

    The business in their country only have to comply with the rules eu set when they want to trade with the eu. Businesses which do not want to trade with the eu therefore don't have to abide by the rules that you say they have no control over. This is a normal agreement that many countries take all over the world with each other (minus the free movement).
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    Was pretty certain on voting leave before but think I may end up voting remain now unfortunately
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    (Original post by Daniel9998)
    Was pretty certain on voting leave before but think I may end up voting remain now unfortunately
    I'm sorry to hear that.
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    Fully decided. Not commenting to debate anything though.

    Definitely voting in. People assume migration is a problem, but that makes no sense. Britain wouldn't be the country it is today without settlers and migrants. A 2014 study by UCL found that each year they net about £5 billion for the economy. I don't understand this nationalistic, sad aversion to immigrants in general. I also plan on utilising the free travel that WE also get to the rest of Europe.

    The UK benefits from trade agreements, a lot of international businesses utilise our country which is profitable for us. There's a reason why all the ACTUALLY prominent and influential politicians are voting in. In my opinion, the leave campaign plays on emotions and blind nationalism. Study after study shows that we financially gain more from being in the EU than we put into it.

    You can be proud to be British AND proud to be EU.

    As I see it, the decision is a no-brainer.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    I'm sorry to hear that.
    Me too
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    (Original post by the bear)
    tbh we have reached the point where Sovereignty is just a quaint anachronism like tithes or trial by combat... it is time to grow up and join up with other countries.
    i.e. do you want the power with more democratically-elected officials or less democratically-elected officials?

    "it is time to grow up and join up with other countries."

    How is that at all relevant? It isn't.
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    Remain.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    They won't move to France or Germany because they don't want to be there they choose the uk because of the great opportunities. The people already here aren't going to leave once we Brexit. A work permit system would be appropriate so people can still freely travel but unable to work without a work permit.

    You only have to look at the unemployment in those countries to understand why they won't be welcomed to France Spain Portugal Italy and Greece.

    When you talk about the government now yes I agree but we need to slow immigration for the next few years anyways to get back on our feet and by then we can vote in a party which will support our immigration needs.

    The opportunity costs actually lie in where our biggest market is, services which do not benefit from the eu Infact they are hindered yet we still have the financial capital of the world. That speaks volumes on how our location and language is supreme in this area.
    What you're saying is literally just untrue. You can't have free movement of people without some kind of trade deal and I doubt the EU will let us retain this privilege. They come to the UK because we're part of the EU.

    Also, I don't see why we need to slow immigration to 'get back on our feet' when it stimulates so much growth? An influx of young, able workers, most of whom will return to their own countries when they retire (so avoid draining our welfare system - 50% of welfare spending is on pensions), only benefits our economy by increasing aggregate supply and our productive potential. Especially as the NHS is so dependent on immigrant workers and is currently at breaking point.

    I mean, how on earth are we supposed to focus on 'getting back on our feet' if we leave?? We'll have to direct all our attention to renegotiating trade deals, renegotiating our entire relationships with the EU, stopping Boris from becoming PM, struggling to offset the massive drop in investment (we already have pretty low levels of investment - we rely too much on consumption and if leaving does spark a recession, we'll also suffer a huge drop in that).
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    I don't want to be like Norway but I will say that Norway have a much better deal than we do.
    Really?? They have exactly the same deal as us, except they don't get a say in the law imposed on them. How is that better?

    The only difference between the UK and Norway is that we have a vote in policy making.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    And only accept a tiny amount of EU law, and have the freedom to reject any EU law they want.

    It would indeed be a good deal, you're right.
    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    I don't want to be like Norway but I will say that Norway have a much better deal than we do.

    Their contribution is actually their own decision as a foreign aid to the south European countries with newly created democratic governments.

    The business in their country only have to comply with the rules eu set when they want to trade with the eu. Businesses which do not want to trade with the eu therefore don't have to abide by the rules that you say they have no control over. This is a normal agreement that many countries take all over the world with each other (minus the free movement).
    Did you even read the article, written by an ex Norwegian government minister?

    "What is normally not said, however, is that this also means retaining all the EU’s product standards, financial regulations, employment regulations, and substantial contributions to the EU budget. A Britain choosing this track would, in other words, keep paying, it would be “run by Brussels”, and it would remain committed to the four freedoms, including free movement.

    "Without full European Union membership, however, it would have given up on having a say over EU policies: like Norway, it would have no vote and no presence when crucial decisions that affect the daily lives of its citizens are made."

    Oh, and no Veto
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    (Original post by nverjvlev)
    What you're saying is literally just untrue. You can't have free movement of people without some kind of trade deal and I doubt the EU will let us retain this privilege. They come to the UK because we're part of the EU.

    Also, I don't see why we need to slow immigration to 'get back on our feet' when it stimulates so much growth? An influx of young, able workers, most of whom will return to their own countries when they retire (so avoid draining our welfare system - 50% of welfare spending is on pensions), only benefits our economy by increasing aggregate supply and our productive potential. Especially as the NHS is so dependent on immigrant workers and is currently at breaking point.

    I mean, how on earth are we supposed to focus on 'getting back on our feet' if we leave?? We'll have to direct all our attention to renegotiating trade deals, renegotiating our entire relationships with the EU, stopping Boris from becoming PM, struggling to offset the massive drop in investment (we already have pretty low levels of investment - we rely too much on consumption and if leaving does spark a recession, we'll also suffer a huge drop in that).
    Fair enough view and I do honestly agree that immigration adds growth to our economy but just like the housing bubble we are missing the inevitable immigration bubble.

    The reason of no free trade in services is to keep growth down in the uk as the eu leader recognise that an ever increasing services growth will pull even more people to the U.K. So we will never get free trade for this. The eu is trying to keep countries at the same level of growth so that it can actually function properly.

    Two ways to do this is to increase growth in the poor countries which I hope they continue to do but also curb growth in the UK which year on year has a greatest pull in the eu in terms of growth.

    I completely understand why they do this as it makes it fair throughout the EU but it's not working when other big countries are actually in major debt traps and have no pull to take away from the UK.
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    Vote Leave on June 23rd.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Did you even read the article, written by an ex Norwegian government minister?

    "What is normally not said, however, is that this also means retaining all the EU’s product standards, financial regulations, employment regulations, and substantial contributions to the EU budget. A Britain choosing this track would, in other words, keep paying, it would be “run by Brussels”, and it would remain committed to the four freedoms, including free movement.

    "Without full European Union membership, however, it would have given up on having a say over EU policies: like Norway, it would have no vote and no presence when crucial decisions that affect the daily lives of its citizens are made."
    What you don't seem to get is that the people of Norway love their EU deal while their government hate it.

    The reason for their hate is because they don't get the lovely cushy eu jobs. They want on that "gravy train". And have been trying for years to convince the people to join for their own selfish reasons.
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    (Original post by nverjvlev)
    Really?? They have exactly the same deal as us, except they don't get a say in the law imposed on them. How is that better?

    The only difference between the UK and Norway is that we have a vote in policy making.
    I explained why underneath. Their deal is nothing like ours lol the only thing in common is the free movement of people.
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    STAY

    Thought long and hard, think it's better to be in the EU, as have been for over 40 years. 500 million plus Europeans. :pierre:

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    Voting remain
 
 
 
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