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Tens of thousands of Palestinians left without water as Israeli firm cuts supplies – Watch

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    (Original post by joey11223)
    dunno what time we're discussing here and I don't want to be dragged into yet another BS Israel v Palestine thread but unless the BBC is in the conspiracy it would seem Israel did at least admit to using it, just that they believe in the context of their usage they didn't break international law...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544
    Of course they used it. Every Western force uses it and they have been using it for almost 100 years. But they were using as incendary rounds rather than smoke cover.

    The claim was it causes birth defects which bull****.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Do you object to the term "dissident groups"? It's considered perfectly appropriate for Northern Ireland to refer to groups like CIRA and RIRA post-GFA. I see no reason why it can't be applied to similar groups in Israel-Palestine post-Oslo. Or do you just want to maintain a collective blame argument in which all Palestinians are held responsible for anything done by any of them?
    So long as most of Palestinians or substantial part of them support terror against Israel my answer is "yes".
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    (Original post by admonit)
    So long as most of Palestinians or substantial part of them support terror against Israel my answer is "yes".
    And do you hold this both ways? i.e. can Israelis legitimately be held collectively responsible for any Israeli action against Palestine so long as a substantial part of Israelis support the use of violence against Palestine?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    And do you hold this both ways? i.e. can Israelis legitimately be held collectively responsible for any Israeli action against Palestine so long as a substantial part of Israelis support the use of violence against Palestine?
    Of course Israelis are responsible for any Israeli action. The rest of your question is nonsensical because Israelis don't support violence against anybody, including non-existing state of Palestine.
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Of course Israelis are responsible for any Israeli action. The rest of your question is nonsensical because Israelis don't support violence against anybody, including non-existing state of Palestine.
    They support the continuation of a military occupation against Palestinians. Polling suggests many also support the expulsion of Palestinian citizens of Israel.

    Also, as I've bolded, this post makes it very clear that you're starting from the assumption that inherently Palestinians are violent but Israelis are not, collectively.
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    do not bite the hand that feeds
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    They support the continuation of a military occupation against Palestinians.
    Source?
    Polling suggests many also support the expulsion of Palestinian citizens of Israel.
    Well, this frequently used poll was performed soon after the war in Gaza, when many Israelis were outraged by anti-israel statements of part of Israeli Arabs.
    There are no Palestinian citizens in Israel.
    Also, as I've bolded, this post makes it very clear that you're starting from the assumption that inherently Palestinians are violent but Israelis are not, collectively.
    That's not assumption but fact.
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Source?
    A few interesting polls in here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...e/ispotoc.html

    For example:
    - This January, ~45% of Israeli Jews supported annexing the entire West Bank.
    - October 2010, ~46% opposed dismantling even 'most' of the settlements.
    - This April, ~48% said it was more important that Palestine "recognise Israel as the state of the Jewish people" than a peace agreement be reached.
    - December 2014, 47% opposed (compared to 41% supporting) the Clinton Parameters for a Palestinian state, i.e. Israeli annexing ~5% of the West Bank (not including East Jerusalem) that would result in 80% of settlers remaining in place, as well as the "Jewish areas" of East Jerusalem.

    Also interestingly (though admittedly less directly relevant to the point at hand), as recently as this April, 71.5% of Israeli Jews did not believe there even is an occupation, including 49.9% who were "sure" there isn't.

    Well, this frequently used poll was performed soon after the war in Gaza, when many Israelis were outraged by anti-israel statements of part of Israeli Arabs.
    So Palestinians aren't allowed to be outraged at decades of their violent expulsion, dispossession and military occupation, but Israeli Jews are allowed to be outraged because people voice some political opinions they disagree with.

    There are no Palestinian citizens in Israel.
    "Palestinian citizens of Israel" is what the bulk of those of the Israeli state insists on calling "Arab Israelis" identify as. Unless you're going to argue that only state-designated identities are 'real', by which logic there are no Kurds in Turkey, and there were no Cornish people in the UK until 2014.

    That's not assumption but fact.
    So you're just going for straight up racism then. Good to know.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    A few interesting polls in here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...e/ispotoc.html

    For example:
    - This January, ~45% of Israeli Jews supported annexing the entire West Bank.
    - October 2010, ~46% opposed dismantling even 'most' of the settlements.
    - This April, ~48% said it was more important that Palestine "recognise Israel as the state of the Jewish people" than a peace agreement be reached.
    - December 2014, 47% opposed (compared to 41% supporting) the Clinton Parameters for a Palestinian state, i.e. Israeli annexing ~5% of the West Bank (not including East Jerusalem) that would result in 80% of settlers remaining in place, as well as the "Jewish areas" of East Jerusalem.
    This doesn't support your assertion that Israelis support military occupation of Palestinians.
    Israelis want that Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state and therefore Israelis want military occupy Palestinians?
    Annexation?
    First, you should prove that substantial part of Israelis want annexation of the West Bank.
    Second, annexation exclude military occupation by definition.
    Also interestingly (though admittedly less directly relevant to the point at hand), as recently as this April, 71.5% of Israeli Jews did not believe there even is an occupation, including 49.9% who were "sure" there isn't.
    It doesn't mean that Israel doesn't control military the West Bank. It means that this land had no owner (country) when Israel occupied it. In the poll the word "definition" was used.
    So Palestinians aren't allowed to be outraged at decades of their violent expulsion, dispossession and military occupation, but Israeli Jews are allowed to be outraged because people voice some political opinions they disagree with.
    Palestinians can be outraged however they want. It doesn't mean that they can kill Israeli Olympic sportsmen and innocent civilians and celebrate it.
    "Palestinian citizens of Israel" is what the bulk of those of the Israeli state insists on calling "Arab Israelis" identify as. Unless you're going to argue that only state-designated identities are 'real', by which logic there are no Kurds in Turkey, and there were no Cornish people in the UK until 2014.
    Bad examples.
    Turkey officially recognizes all citizens as Turks. Israel recognizes dozens of ethnic and religious minorities.
    Cornish people were not recognized as ethnic minority until 2014. Arabs in Israel always were recognized as ethnic (and religious) minority. Arab language is an official language in Israel.
    You are free to prove that Israeli Arabs seek official recognition as Palestinians.
    So you're just going for straight up racism then. Good to know.
    Hmm And in the same post you are describing Israelis as evil and Palestinians as their victims. OK. :cool:
 
 
 
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