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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    We knew within hours of both attacks two things..

    1) Omar Mateen had pledged allegiance to ISIS
    2) We knew very quickly Mair had clearly longstanding mental health issues

    People are going to assume a muslim pledging allegiance to a terrorist organisation during an attack is
    doing so because of his religion and not mental health, because this is what happens time and time again across not just the ME but the west now aswell.

    Both were apparent within literally a couple of hours of the incidents. If Mair is not found to not be suffering from significant mental illness, he will be condemned as a terrorist.

    Next time a jihadi shouts allah ackbar and you see me type "Here we go again, the religion of peace" - If you confront me with some evidence that the person might be a few shillings short of a pound, i will absoloutely have reservations about the killers motives / mind just as i did for this white guy
    I already pointed out that it has been reported by various media outlets that Mateen was indeed mentally ill, does that negate the fact that he was a terrorist despite his motives?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ife-beating-h/

    We knew instantly that Mair was shouting "Britain First" while stabbing a defenceless woman. If shouting "Allahu Akbar" is enough to assume a political motive then I don't see how that is not. Since then he has expressed far-right extremist views.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I already pointed out that it has been reported by various media outlets that Mateen was indeed mentally ill, does that negate the fact that he was a terrorist despite his motives?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ife-beating-h/

    We knew instantly that Mair was shouting "Britain First" while stabbing a defenceless woman. If shouting "Allahu Akbar" is enough to assume a political motive then I don't see how that is not. Since then he has expressed far-right extremist views.
    Your link does not work.. I saw ZERO mention anywhere of Mateen having a history of mental health issues in the hours following his attack.. zero

    Again we didnt know, we had a dodgy testimony from a thirdhand witness which was quickly repudiated by an actual eye witness live on sky cameras who said "I didnt hear that" when questioned about it by sky news. Furthermore... we then had it may have been "PUT Britain First"

    But yes, if you get something a bit more concrete than a thirdhand eyewitness rejected by an actual eye witness next time and we know the attacker shouted Britain First during the attack, its perfectly reasonable to go ahead and assume he is a terrorist supporting Britain First

    Both instances have had a lack of actual video evidence at the time quickly posted onto social media which is slightly unfortunate in terms of knowing particuarly in Mairs case what the craic was
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    No, Omar Mateen pledging allegiance to ISIS was not equally as solid as the third hand reports which where swiftly contradicted by an eyewitness that he shouted "Britain first"

    Why oh great betelgeuse? My small brain cannot comprehend you must be RACIST NEO NAZI... well little A level stress person who is probably a formerly banned poster...

    The FBI and police scanners picked up in the moments after Mateens attack are far more reliable and privy to reality than a bloke saying a guy told him Mair shouted "Britain First!"

    More importantly.. we didn't have a picture of Mair at a Britain First event in the hours after the attack.. did we?

    We did have proof of his history of mental illness however

    DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE
    Not sure why you're trying to patronise me, you seem very angry for no reason.

    Omar Mateen pledging allegiance to ISIS is equally as solid as this man in court making that statement he made today, alongside the reports he is tied to Britain First - and its not just third hand reports, eyewitnesses and he is also in some Britain First campaign photos.

    It seems you're too eager to accept what the tabloids are discussing and you want to shove him under 'mental illness', quite simply because this, right here, is proof that the extreme right pose an equal threat to 'radical Islam' or whatever nonsense you spend a good few hours of your day ranting on TSR about.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Your link does not work.. I saw ZERO mention anywhere of Mateen having a history of mental health issues in the hours following his attack.. zero

    Again we didnt know, we had a dodgy testimony from a thirdhand witness which was quickly repudiated by an actual eye witness live on sky cameras who said "I didnt hear that" when questioned about it by sky news. Furthermore... we then had it may have been "PUT Britain First"

    But yes, if you get something a bit more concrete than a thirdhand eyewitness rejected by an actual eye witness next time and we know the attacker shouted Britain First during the attack, its perfectly reasonable to go ahead and assume he is a terrorist supporting Britain First

    Both instances have had a lack of actual video evidence at the time quickly posted onto social media which is slightly unfortunate in terms of knowing particuarly in Mairs case what the craic was
    Even if you're right and Mair has no affiliation with Britain First, the fact that he has expressed far-right views since then and that a Nazi regalia was found in his home is enough to suggest a political motive.

    I learned of the attack on Pulse a couple of days late so am not sure what the immediate reaction was but Mateen is still being considered a terrorist even now when we have more information on his background, so it would appear that mental instability does not exempt an individual from being labelled as terrorist if he or she satisfies the criteria.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Not sure why you're trying to patronise me, you seem very angry for no reason.
    I am very angry... I have multiple extremely ignorant people lacking the nuance to understand what I am saying to say whilst calling me a neo nazi sympathiser .



    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Omar Mateen pledging allegiance to ISIS is equally as solid as this man in court making that statement he made today
    ,

    WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE HOURS AFTER THE ATTACK.. WE ARE NOW DAYS FROM THE ATTACK. WE DIDNT HAVE TODAYS INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN THE 6 HOURS OR SO AFTER THE ATTACK

    MY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD IS ME SAYING YES WE CAN BE SURE SOME FORM OF POLITICS PLAYED A ROLE IN HIS MOTIVES

    If you cannot read and cannot follow a thread i am out of here
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I am very angry... I have multiple extremely ignorant people lacking the nuance to understand what I am saying to say whilst calling me a neo nazi sympathiser .



    ,

    WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE HOURS AFTER THE ATTACK.. WE ARE NOW DAYS FROM THE ATTACK. WE DIDNT HAVE TODAYS INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN THE 6 HOURS OR SO AFTER THE ATTACK

    MY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD IS ME SAYING YES WE CAN BE SURE SOME FORM OF POLITICS PLAYED A ROLE IN HIS MOTIVES

    If you cannot read and cannot follow a thread i am out of here
    you seriously need to calm down, stop dangerously and recklessly attacking every single person because one or two people called you a 'nazi-sympathiser', you're asking me to 'read and follow the thread' but you're attacking me for what other people said to you

    I'm not sure why '6 hours after the attack' is relevant, what matters is what we have now, and its clear that Omar Mateen was just a madman who pledged allegiance to ISIS to maximise the influence of his attack, and Tommy Mair did it because he sympathises with the far right and thought this MP was a threat.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Omar Mateen 'pledging allegiance to ISIS' is equally as solid as what this guy did, if not less because there are photos going around showing Tommy Mair demonstrating with Britain First
    Mateen called 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS, so it's undeniable.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Mateen called 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS, so it's undeniable.
    'pledging allegiance' means nothing, he could have pledged allegiance to anyone and it wouldn't have made a difference, this was just a disturbed man taking out his anger against this nightclub and he could live with himself by justifying it using extremist Islam
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    'pledging allegiance' means nothing, he could have pledged allegiance to anyone and it wouldn't have made a difference, this was just a disturbed man taking out his anger against this nightclub and he could live with himself by justifying it using extremist Islam
    Ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Ridiculous.
    How exactly is that ridiculous? He had no ties to ISIS whatsoever apart from the fact that he pledged allegiance to them, just because someone pledges allegiance to them it doesn't mean that this is the core reason as to why someone does something. The simple truth is that he was a disturbed, angry individual. He called the police to pledge allegiance to ISIS because he wants everyone to think that is why he did it - when the true reason lies somewhere down in that idiots broken soul.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    OP I think you should've mentioned the 'terrorist colour chart' when it comes to the media and how they classify a terrorist Attachment 552322
    I never realised white supremacist Anders Brevik was brown or that the Irish Republican Army is in fact made up of Muslims.........
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    So sad, a horrible death.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Unless they are White Muslims it has rarely happened since 9/11. Here are just a couple of sources of many which show the reluctance to call even him a terrorist. Many times he is a "gunman" or a "mass murderer":
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...my-of-one.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nsane-murderer
    So how come you can easily find countless newspaper articles in Google referring to Brevik as a terrorist? But then again you knew that since you'd have been on Google to find the article you posted. Very dishonest!
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    Labour brought unlimited immigration, the thoughtcrime islamophobia and illegal intervention.

    I cannot sympathise a great deal with the extreme left in this case. On the other hand this killing seems a bit pointless despite her criminal support of the rebellion in Syria.

    If anyone deserves such misfortune then it is Tony Blair who continues to escape justice making a mockery of us all.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    So how come you can easily find countless newspaper articles in Google referring to Brevik as a terrorist? But then again you knew that since you'd have been on Google to find the article you posted. Very dishonest!
    The fact that this isn't something that was unanimously agreed upon and that there is even debate on whether or not he is a terrorist supports my point. I have never seen similar disputes in the case of labelling a Middle Eastern terrorist, mainstream media outlets can find a common ground when the terrorist fits their criteria.
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    Britain First have said they want him 'hung by his neck on a lamp post'

    Even they don't agree with what this man did
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Because that was when we started to have an unspoken criteria that had to be satisfied before labelling someone a terrorist.

    On the other hand when it's a Muslim, he or she is labelled as terrorist immediately. No one debates the use of the label or waits for a trial or psychiatric report.
    No, 9/11 saw the beginning of the era when virtually all major terrorist attacks were carried out in the name of Islam. Terrorism seems to work in eras where there's a different threat.

    Are people not bringing up the Orlando shooters mental health? When women with Down syndrome were used to carry explosives was there medical condition not publicised to show it wasn't there fault?

    The simple fact is there have been very few terrorist attacks by whites in recent years. It's very easy to make an offence fit terrorism (in law) when it's carried out by a Muslim because all you really need to do is tie them to some sort of organisation. There are no white groups that are using the murder of civilians to further their cause so calling a white person a terrorist is going to be more difficult and would probably take longer; a newspaper wouldn't want to label someone a terrorist where they can sued.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The simple fact is there have been very few terrorist attacks by whites in recent years.
    Incorrect, the majority of European terrorist attacks are carried out by (mainly white) separatist organisations such as ETA.
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    (Original post by sweeneyrod)
    Incorrect, the majority of European terrorist attacks are carried out by (mainly white) separatist organisations such as ETA.
    When was the last time ETA killed someone? Or even committed an attack?


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    They've destroyed our homeland and robbed our people of a future.

    Traitor isn't enough to describe these people in power.
 
 
 
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