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I don't know what to vote and it's frustrating me Watch


    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, I don't think A4E explains why the employment figures are so high,

    I can agree about the over-saturation of graduates and etc. However, that doesn't mean that the figures are inherently untrustworthy.
    True - but i am very cynical when it comes to government figures !

    Wouldn't it be more expensive to buy food, clothes etc if we leave? Also is it true the pound currency will be abolished if we stay?

    Leave. Just for the lolz of the country going tits up by voters effectively seppakuing the economy.

    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Wouldn't it be more expensive to buy food, clothes etc if we leave? Also is it true the pound currency will be abolished if we stay?
    Exactly the opposite.

    We'd no longer be subjected to the controversial Common Agricultural Policy, which places a tariff on non-EU agricultural goods. This would in turn drive up competition, and therefore decrease food prices.

    Have you ever wondered why we have such high food prices compared to the US?

    (One of the many reasons why it's better to leave!)

    I'd imagine it'd be the same for other goods also, because we'd no longer be subjected to a Common External Tariff.

    The second question I can't answer.

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    (Original post by 16characterlimit)
    That's like saying "We cant get rid of Westminster, lets become anarchists".
    We can vote out MPs in Westminster though. And there has been a bit of discussion about reforming the house of lords as well. So I don't think that's a valid argument.
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    Official TSR Representative
    (Original post by Inexorably)



    If you'd asked me anytime before like Summer last year I would have said leave, but then since then I've been kinda swaying on in.

    Then the past 2 weeks I just can't even decide at all. Both sides have pretty good points and I hate this cause it's my (our) generation that it's gonna affect the most ughhhhhhhh.

    IS it acceptable to just spoil my ballot in frustration.
    Hey Inexorably, it is all very confusing with views and opinions masquerading as fact and information. You can try and find independent sources of information to make your decision, but it is always worth digging deeper to find out who finances them, and their political agenda. If a statement is supported in more than one place by a reliable source, then that is a good thing.... go all academic research on it! But your personal philosophies also come in to play too....

    I think most people would agree that going and spoiling your ballot paper as a protest vote is better than abstaining.


    (Original post by Raizelcadres)
    Wouldn't it be more expensive to buy food, clothes etc if we leave? Also is it true the pound currency will be abolished if we stay?
    Nope! Most of your clothing is made in Asia and is currently subject to about 20% tariff inside the EU.

    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    I agree, you should look at who is making the arguments. We have this fine example here for remain, for example, who is quite innovative in his use of capitalized words for emphasis, and groundbreaking in his grammar.

    I wouldn't normally attack my fellow person, but I have excused myself the extreme irony this time, because that was a dirty and false argument to make, although extremely simple in its execution - draw forth a biased list of parties supporting each side.

    I might add that over-all, the conservatives do support leave, and a large chunk of Labour. 100% of UKIP, strangely enough.

    Actually, Farage does have the power. You see, the Leave agenda has been agreed upon by Boris and Gove, and it will inevitably be one of them who resumes leadership of the Convservative Party to carry out ol' Nigey's will, if in a more sensible way perhaps.

    "They are the FAR RIGHT"
    Um, what? That is your argument against Farage? They are part of the political far right? Wow, regardless of capitalization, that really isn't giving you any credibility at-all, you're right. UKIP is a very liberal party, I see you've been enthusiastically chowing down the force-fed media perspective. Politics is far more complex than left and right. UKIP's social policies are not typical of right wing parties at-all. I have the sudden feeling you have never read a UKIP manifesto in your life, and recommend you do so should you like to make reasonable and educated future arguments. Know thy enemy, right?
    In reference to your rebuttal of my first piece, I have decided to invoke the use of proper prose and grammar as this seems to be all you can comprehend on social forums (ha!)

    Seriously, I did insert an aside/apology about my use of improper grammar and hoping one would excuse me being that it was a late Sunday night on a social forum, not an academic essay.

    Secondly, you yourself make a series of false assumptions.

    The first being that J_89 is a he, she is not actually, but I’ll let you off with that being that when commentating on politics it is easy to assume that one is male and I’m not actually a nit-picker on a social forum.

    The glaringly obvious fault with your rebuttal: “all of the conservatives and most of Labour are leave”. I take it you’re talking about the politicians, who are indisputably vastly in cross-partisan support of Remain (obviously minus UKIP and the right of the Tory party).

    As for the people (who I don’t think you are talking about), that is closer to the truth but still inaccurate given that 47% of people voted in (of whom a large chunk must be either Labour or Tory supporters) and, anecdotally, I actually volunteered for the referendum and a lot of generally Conservative voters were Remainers and a lot of Labour sided with UKIP so not at all along party lines and the opinion is much more nuanced than the generalisation that you assert.

    Furthermore, as I predicted, Farage would not have power. That couldn’t be possible in terms of the fact that his party was not in power. In terms of indirect power that you mention, that also failed to occur as Gove and Johnson did not wish to carry out the political will of the electorate – they wanted their own personal gain.

    Now, I am not a keyboard warrior and I certainly acknowledge your correct point:

    I haven’t read UKIPs manifesto and for my own knowledge and to make correct assertions I probably should. You're certainly right here.

    However, I’m not a betting woman but I’d be willing to wager that UKIP is NOT (*gasps*, used caps locks again – on an academic forum no less – the shame!) in fact a liberal party.

    I do not take my scale of reckoning for this from the general media, but partially from my own personal scale that I developed from my knowledge of evolutionary psychology (which I won’t expand upon now), which is quite useful for analysing political ideology which places UKIP to the right of the conservative party. (I won’t debate the merits or the demerits of this in this post, but this is where I get my alignment for UKIP; not the television news media, which I don’t actually watch).

    I also base this upon comments from Farage regarding his openness about wanting to make the NHS private and insurance based, women in the workplace, dog-whistle racism employed in all of his campaigns and general alignment with other far-right principles.

    I studied politics at university and openly advocating for the privatisation of public services, women in a less active role in society, demonising immigrants and other ethnicities are beliefs regarded by academia as to the right of the scale of modern conservatism. That is not my personal reckoning but is universally accepted from an academic, not merely a media spin, standpoint.

    I will grant that UKIP are populist and do intend to have mass appeal (which they do) but that does not make them liberal.

    Should you find exact policies which are left-wing (glaringly obvious lies like wanting to give the money saved from the EU to the NHS aside), please feel free to post them here and should that be the case (although I highly doubt it is), I'd certainly be willing to modify my position (that is the point of debate after all).

    I seem to be using a lot of brackets here, I hope dragonzrmetal;65937550 will forgive me. Now, that I come to analyse his/her user name actually seems to be quite grammatically incorrect itself. dragonzrmetal - I hope this is a complex foreign name that is unknown to me, and not an abbreviation, a grammatical degradation!! no less, of the phrase "Dragons are metal". I do hope not as that would certainly indicate a kettle called black.

    So, all in all, you haven’t modified my political position, but not the worst response I’ve experienced on a TSR forum.

    (My response to your grammar nit-picking is intended to be tongue-in-cheek by the way, and not as you would put it "an attack on a fellow human being")
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