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Why do Leave voters think they know better than experts? Watch

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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    I've actually got loads of other equally valid points to make but I think these are enough to make one think long and hard. I don't want the 'Remainians' choking on more overwhelming facts when it's way past bedtime

    Just so you know, they don't teach these things in school. Whatever I've posted is based on the past two years of having an open mind while reading good sources for reliable news and watching unbiased documentaries. Steer away from the BBC and you'll be fine

    Lastly, and I could be wrong but my observations tell me that several people on this forum who oppose Brexit are from two camps. The first comprises of first generation British citizens whose parents immigrated to UK which is why they feel as though people are trying to marginalize their parents when they vocally support Brexit. The second are people who were born abroad and immigrated to UK at a young age with their parents in tow and similarly feeling being discriminated against when people support Brexit.

    In both instances these people are wrong. As a result of their personal bias (which is understandable), they are unable to see what Brexit actually means. So it doesn't matter how many of these threads are created, how many different ways the thread title is hashed and rehashed and/or how many more good points substantiated with hard evidence is provided, these people will never alter their position.

    The only way we can move forward is when people remove the wool from their eyes, put their personal agendas aside and see the referendum for what it actually is. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union? and for the reasons I've stated, the answer is obvious. Need I elaborate more?
    Well done, and I agree.
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    (Original post by drogon)
    If you're going to say the experts are wrong then i'm afraid you're going to have to substantiate that incredibly vague and generalised claim. Or have you been hit by the "The EU is out to get us and there is a massive conspiracy!" fever that all the delusional brexiters have got?
    This is not necessarily a discussion about 'Brexit' as there is no evidence to suggest that an exit from the EU will result in a direct democracy being implemented. It's more of a discussion about the flaws of a representative democracy, which there are many.

    There is a also an important difference between stating that experts are always wrong, which you have alluded to, and stating that experts are often wrong. More potent, however, is that there is academic research that suggests that a reason why such mistakes happen is because if there are gaps in the data, they will fill it with memories rather than looking for the information ("Knowing Too Much: Expertise Induced False Recall Effects in Product Comparison").

    I am no fan of revolutions (I am a conservative after all) but I don't agree with the suggestion that we should place our entire trust in experts to make our decisions for us.
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/think...trade-with-us/

    Sir James Dyson: 'So if we leave the EU no one will trade with us? Cobblers...'
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    How many experts are funded by the EU?
    How many experts support globalisation?
    How many experts speak in terms of global or other countries interests, rather than our own, which as we know are not one in the same all of time, in some circumstances virtually none of the time?
    How many experts are born and raised here, have and will live here their whole lives, are patriots with an emotional investment in the place?
    How many experts really know or care much what the lower end of the labour and housing market is like for countless born Britons?

    Think about these before you blindly accept the view of 'experts', who also said we had to join the Eurozone.
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    (Original post by Rover73)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/think...trade-with-us/

    Sir James Dyson: 'So if we leave the EU no one will trade with us? Cobblers...'
    He's clever.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Economists all over the world agree that leaving the EU is bad for our economy - "they don't know what they're talking about!!"

    Scientists all over the world tell us leaving the EU will be bad for science, technology and the environment - "selfish!!!"

    Leaders of every country of any significance telling us we'll be less powerful - "grrrrr but we're the mighty British Empire!!!!"

    I really can't understand the arrogance and ignorance involved in maintaining these kinds of delusions. It's really not normal or okay to dismiss the opinions of EVERYONE that knows what they're talking about, and deciding that you know better because you read the Daily Mail. At best it's a shocking lack of critical thinking, at worst it's schizophrenia.
    Same reason why they think Elvis didn't die but was "taken home" by aliens.
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    Same reason why they think Elvis didn't die but was "taken home" by aliens.
    Bet you didn't read a thing Dyson said.
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    Im sorry but nobody knows anything Brexit want other than stuff to do with immigration and soveignty. At the end of the day whether we're ****ed or not will come down to the economy, but nobody knows what Brexit's plans for the economy are tbh. At least the in campaign has been telling us a wider range of things.
    Like i can't speak for anyone else but whenever someone talks about Brexit i just hear them talk about immigration. And honestly its off putting if they cant confidentently tell us an economic plan.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Bet you didn't read a thing Dyson said.
    I never said I did.

    I've taken a lot into account and put a lot of thought into what I'm voting. I am, however, not saying any more than that; everyone's been trying to influence everyone else and it's making me ****ing sick.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    JordanL_


    Your question was 'Why do Leave voters think they know better than experts?

    Because these 'experts' were wrong about the Gold standard, they were wrong about the single market when the intention all along was ever closer political union and they were wrong about the Euro.

    They were wrong then and they are wrong now!

    Naveed-7 Ladymusiclover RuWill2001 JC. JW22 DJKL


    If UK leaves the EU, EU will collapse. Cos UK is essentially financing the entire EU with the strong £ against the failed €. Do you recall the George Osbourne tax rebate fiasco from 2 years ago? EU slapped a £1.7 billion on UK but Cameron vowed that he would not pay it. What happened in the end? UK still paid up and did so quietly.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29751124
    http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-e...u-budget-bill/
    http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-e...n-budget-bill/
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ember-deadline
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...happening.html

    Yesterday, the German finance minister said he would cry if UK voted Brexit. Of course he would! Cos UK is the one funding the EU and Germany gets to dictate who gets the money and what to do with it.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-EU-referendum
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...718_story.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a6909616.html

    Please understand that Germany controls the EU and dictates to the other member states when to stand up and when to sit down. France is her close ally despite their colourful history.

    If UK leaves, then the other poorer member states would want to follow suit. Do you recall last year when EU forced Greece to accept a humongous financial bailout which EU knew Greece would never be able to repay back cos the interests were just too high? and the greek banks allowed its citizens to withdraw only €120 per week? When this news first broke out in Greece, its citizens queued up outside the bank to withdraw their monies but the banks were shut. Do you recall this man who cried outside the bank and this image went viral?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ing-man-banks/




    If UK leaves then many EU citizens working in the UK and living off benefits will have to return back to their home countries. These EU citizens based in UK, don't want this to happen because UK is the only country in EU that offers such amazing benefits.

    Many of the lecturers in the UK unis are also against Brexit because if UK pulls out of it then these lecturers will have to return back to their home countries and re-apply via a work permit system. So far nothing unusual? The catch here is that these lecturers of EU origin will have to compete for lecturing jobs with equally abled or far better lecturers from New Zealand, Canada, Australia, India, Hong Kong and Singapore. This is the reason why many lecturers have been writing articles and blogs online to plead with UK citizens to vote in their favour. How selfish!

    If you have studied politics at A-level or at uni, depending on who your lecturer is and which textbook you're reading, you will know that ever since UK joined the EU, she has given away her sovereignty to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels and Luxembourg. I can't help but wonder why UK still needs a Supreme Court when its no longer supreme and a British parliament when it's no longer sovereign?

    Do you know that millions of British soldiers have died in several wars over the centuries to protect Queen and country? But Tony Blair let these millions of soldier died in vain because when he was in power for 10 years or so as the Prime Minister of UK, he allowed virtually everyone to enter the UK
    • without checking if they are holding genuine passports
    • without checking if they have links to terrorist groups
    • without checking if they have criminal records in their home countries
    • without checking if they have genuine educational qualifications or a trade skill
    • without checking if they have HIV/AIDS
    Someone recently asked me why should people wanting to enter into another country, be checked for HIV/AIDS? This is because the government owes a duty to its citizens to protect them from people who may want to infect others with their communicable diseases. This is an extension of a 'social contract theory'. Read up on it if you have time. Educate yourself.

    I'm German. As you know, many migrant men raped, molested and sexually abused many women in my country since New Year's Day.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ks-list-crimes
    http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...d65045e65e141d

    This is the list of sex crimes against German women in one night. I hope you have a strong stomach for this.
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...-sex-assaults/

    You only have to see what the German police commissioner said on national TV to understand the true extent of the migrant crisis. Mind you, the higher command in Germany gave him a piece of their mind following the telecast of this interview. Watch it to believe it.



    You may have read or heard, many of these migrants have turned my country upside down. I hope all of you reading my post, bears this in mind. A country's sovereignty, security and safety of its citizens is so important. With Merkel's blunder, we have become a carbon copy of UK & the rest of EU and their set of problems.

    Merkel has been in hiding for many months now. She's pushing 62 years of age. She won't throw in the towel just yet. If UK decides to remain in the EU, I am certain they will make EU into a united states of Europe and she would be the major contender for the post of PM of the USE. Tony Blair has quietened down way too much to be able to stake a claim for that coveted position.

    Merkel studied physics and then chemistry. She has no knowledge and understanding about politics, law, finance and sociology. She tells the German public one thing and tells the EU another thing and then tells the world another thing. Sometime back she said that refugees must now return back to their countries of origin after the wars back home have ended.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0V80IH

    With Turkey's inclusion into the EU imminent, there will be 77 million Turks who will get to make their debut appearance in any of the EU member states. They will not go to France because France has zero tolerance towards Muslims. They will continue to come to Germany or go to the UK where the borders are invincible and where the border agents have zero powers to turn people away.


    And if you go onto the Oxbridge threads on this forum and some of the other top UK unis, you will see a growing number of EU students who simply want UK to stay in the EU so that they can apply for student loans because without it they will not be able to study in these top unis. Their main priority is to get the funding and get a place at these tops unis.

    So you must be wondering whats wrong with that? Well, a growing number of EU students simply take these loans, one after another and then disappear after they've completed their studies without repaying the loans and the British government has to write off these debts. It's been reported several times and it's about time UK puts her foot down.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672...g-tuition-fees
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ing-loans.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...pay-debts.html

    The money you send to EU can be used to invest in your NHS, build more hospitals, recruit more police officers, increase their salaries which should apply to teachers and junior doctors too, give incentives (funding, tax breaks) to British citizens to start their own businesses (entrepreneurship) and so much more.

    Vote Leave!
    If UK leaves then Germany will be the only country that will have to pick up the bill. Roll on independence day!
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    Same said economists who said the Eurozone was a jolly good idea while ignoring other experts who gave fair warning it was a recipe for disaster?

    The same experts who happily paint doomsday scenarios for the UK economy but deftly avoid explaining why the European market is the one trading bloc which isn't growing?

    The same expert scientists who think a visa application (likely done by the institution they wish to work for anyway) will send Britain back to the dark ages?

    Leaders with their own vested interests in British EU membership that have nothing to do with the actual facts or Britain's interests? Leaders who could never possibly be above omissions and lies?

    Talking of arrogance and ignorance the projecting is quite stark.

    Only in Remain-land can Britain functioning like a sovereign state like the vast majority of the world (many parts doing much much better than the EU members) somehow equate to end of the world. Amazing.

    Also kudos on the ironic British Empire jab. Making an ad hominem over a historical entity nobody in the Brexit campaign has event mentioned much less cares about, while lacking any self-awareness regarding the empire building perpetrated by an EU oligarchy which has a verifiable contempt for democracy.


    If appeal to authority fallacies, flat-out lies and emotion is all the Remain camp has to offer, I'm sorry but I'm as far as convince to vote for Remain as I can possibly be.
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    It's funny how many people are saying "they're being funded by the EU". Speaks for itself really. How delusional brexiters are.

    Also, saying the experts were wrong before is meaningless. If you think there's a mistake in their methodology, point it out for us. Because they clearly considered the best outcome possible before making a judgement.
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    (Original post by drogon)
    It's funny how many people are saying "they're being funded by the EU". Speaks for itself really. How delusional brexiters are.

    Also, saying the experts were wrong before is meaningless. If you think there's a mistake in their methodology, point it out for us. Because they clearly considered the best outcome possible before making a judgement.
    Which of the experts have actually published their methodology along with their reports? Is this not part of the issue, a lack of transparency (both sides)?
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Same said economists who said the Eurozone was a jolly good idea while ignoring other experts who gave fair warning it was a recipe for disaster?

    The same experts who happily paint doomsday scenarios for the UK economy but deftly avoid explaining why the European market is the one trading bloc which isn't growing?

    The same expert scientists who think a visa application (likely done by the institution they wish to work for anyway) will send Britain back to the dark ages?

    Leaders with their own vested interests in British EU membership that have nothing to do with the actual facts or Britain's interests? Leaders who could never possibly be above omissions and lies?

    Talking of arrogance and ignorance the projecting is quite stark.

    Only in Remain-land can Britain functioning like a sovereign state like the vast majority of the world (many parts doing much much better than the EU members) somehow equate to end of the world. Amazing.

    Also kudos on the ironic British Empire jab. Making an ad hominem over a historical entity nobody in the Brexit campaign has event mentioned much less cares about, while lacking any self-awareness regarding the empire building perpetrated by an EU oligarchy which has a verifiable contempt for democracy.


    If appeal to authority fallacies, flat-out lies and emotion is all the Remain camp has to offer, I'm sorry but I'm as far as convince to vote for Remain as I can possibly be.
    Appeal to authority? Hahahahahahah! You knuclehead, it's not appeal to authority because they're experts! https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ Look it up.

    "Same said economists who said the Eurozone was a jolly good idea while ignoring other experts who gave fair warning it was a recipe for disaster?" Please cite these economists, I want a comprehensive list. *cough* they are few and far in between so you wont be able to make a large enough list
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Can you even imagine the carnage if a Italian or French collapse like the Greeks?
    Granted the latter isn't likely but the former is possible


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The Italian banks have already collapsed - but it has been kept quiet in the Western media !!
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    (Original post by DJKL)
    Which of the experts have actually published their methodology along with their reports? Is this not part of the issue, a lack of transparency (both sides)?
    What? Are you serious? All of them have. I for one have seen the methodology for the Bank Of England which appears comprehensive and coherent. The IMF, Oxford econ and all the others have published theres and have been simplified on the news so the viewers can see.

    The Remain campaign have been very transparent when it comes to their research. The leave campaign on the other hand dismiss it or just choose not to look at it. Ironically that's what you're doing here too.
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    (Original post by drogon)
    What? Are you serious? All of them have. I for one have seen the methodology for the Bank Of England which appears comprehensive and coherent. The IMF, Oxford econ and all the others have published theres and have been simplified on the news so the viewers can see.

    The Remain campaign have been very transparent when it comes to their research. The leave campaign on the other hand dismiss it or just choose not to look at it. Ironically that's what you're doing here too.
    Oh contray.

    Where have you been? The leave campaign isn't just some exclusive club of Gove and Boris. It is many individuals.

    Your experts are exactly those who caused the 2007 crisis. We are led to believe by David Cameron that the Labour Party caused the global 2007 recession and David Cameron is suppose to be a expert on the matter

    Then these other experts? Mark Carney? Are you having a joke. This guy is ex Goldman Sachs who is a Keynesian manipulator of money. All people need to do is do their research on people like Ben Bernanke, Alan Greenspan, Janet Yellen and Paul Krugman and then they will relize what that these people have made such a huge mess of the global economy.

    Watch this cartoon for more info of the kind of expert the remain campaign have. I present to you Ben Bernanke!!!

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    Lol. I want what you're on if you think Brexit have the more credible people. Seriously some of you guys are just delusional ****ing nutters :lol:
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Oh contray.

    Where have you been? The leave campaign isn't just some exclusive club of Gove and Boris. It is many individuals.

    Your experts are exactly those who caused the 2007 crisis. We are led to believe by David Cameron that the Labour Party caused the global 2007 recession and David Cameron is suppose to be a expert on the matter

    Then these other experts? Mark Carney? Are you having a joke. This guy is ex Goldman Sachs who is a Keynesian manipulator of money. All people need to do is do their research on people like Ben Bernanke, Alan Greenspan, Janet Yellen and Paul Krugman and then they will relize what that these people have made such a huge mess of the global economy.

    Watch this cartoon for more info of the kind of expert the remain campaign have. I present to you Ben Bernanke!!!

    Always a pleasure talking to you

    What a ridiculous notion, you think that oxford econ caused the crash? ffs.

    These experts aren't individuals, rather a collective group of researchers and statisticians who make independent reports. As i said, if you want to criticise the experts, have a go at their methodology. I need specifics.
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    (Original post by TheLittlestElf)
    Lol. I want what you're on if you think Brexit have the more credible people. Seriously some of you guys are just delusional ****ing nutters :lol:
    Remember the football fans in France? That's your average brexiter.
 
 
 
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