Parliament should not invoke Article 50 - the referendum was a farce

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    We are demanding democracy. A non-binding referendum has produced a wafer thin result that Nigel Farage himself previously said would be unacceptable. That is no basis for taking the biggest national decision for decades.
    Oh and I suppose a Bremain would be binding if it happened. Your hypocrisy is astounding. Democracy does not require an IQ test, people were told lies but it is up to them as adults to ultimately distinguish between truth and fiction.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    We are demanding democracy.
    You had democracy you pleb and a large proportion of London decided to not utilise their vote. Why don't you go and complain to your fellow Londoners for wasting their vote rather than bore us to death with your ******** on here? Its not our fault they refused to get off their fat asses and go and make a difference.

    We've done democracy already. It was called the first referendum so get over it.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Not according to Nigel Farage:

    "In a 52-48 referendum, this would be unfinished business by a long way". Nigel Farage, last month

    https://twitter.com/DavidLammy
    If you would PLEASE stop taking Mr Farage's words out of context to incriminate him.

    If the vote was 52-48 to REMAIN, then the EU would need to be reformed(BUT REMAIN WE STILL WOULD), they can't ignore such a large number of people's unhappiness with the way the EU is, just like they are trying to make the EU exit as swift and painless as possible for the large number of remain voters! Doesn't mean that the majority doesn't still exist.
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    Leave has won and we cant sadly change that, right now the government needs to make this country worth something and bridge the divide that there obviously is between us all.
    Get rid of the fear and then we will know where everyone stands and if this was a good decision or not.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Now the dust is starting to settle a little, it's becoming clear what has happened.

    First of all, the majority for Leave was small - almost half of the voters were against Leaving.

    Secondly, we now know that most of the big promises and offers made by the Leave campaign were false, by their own admission. This includes the alleged saving of £350m a week (they admit they lied about this) and their promises on immigration - which they also now confirm they lied about. These things had a big influence on voters.

    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.

    Against this background, it's completely unacceptable for Parliament to surrender to ignorance and orchestrated right wing manipulative politics designed to bring in a deeper austerity agenda under Johnson and Gove.

    We must contact our MPs and tell them that we cannot and do not accept that they should vote through the invoking of Article 50, to begin the process of leaving the EU. Instead, we should have a Royal Commission or similar to enquire properly into what it would mean to leave the EU and there should be a declaration that there will be a 5-year moratorium on action until more time for reflection has been had.

    EDIT
    Anyone who agrees that the majority for Leave was far too small to be convincing, can sign the "second referendum" petition, with almost 2m signatures now, which calls for a fairer process.
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
    Grow up, get over it, accept you've lost, and move on. You can't keep having referendums until you get the 'right' answer - that may be the European way, but it isn't correct. The referendum has shown that people want to leave, so that is what we must do.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    X
    Absolutely right although I do feel like this petition is grasping at straws.
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    Wow, what an excellent way to invoke civic unrest.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think very significant numbers of people are going to be furious if Parliament supinely pushes this through without very serious debate and further thought.

    I also think a great many MPs will on reflection not support it, including potentially a number in the Tory Party.
    We've had debate, we've had almost a year of it, many of those debates took place in parliament. I don't think an act of parliament is needed to activate article 50 anyway?

    I think many would not want to, but they'd be under a tremendous amount of pressure from their voters. Ignoring the referendum result will anger every leave voter, alinate some of the fairer minded remain voters( like me ) and split the remain camp, there is nothing to be gained..
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Absolutely right although I do feel like this petition is grasping at straws.
    Would you be agreeing if it had been a 52-48 vote to remain?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    If the Government doesn't invoke article 50 you are going to see a Ukraine style riot.

    I'm sorry but the banners have already been called from the most serious neo-nazi's to the regular eurosceptic's. This will be civil war between the North & the South if you carry on with this coup on democracy.

    In event of this happening there a good chance you will loose. You've only ever had to deal with 1 group of the right-wing on the streets. Now your going to get all of them in one go.

    Its so bad even us dooms day preppers are being asked to join the fray.

    I hope you realise what your getting yourself into here.

    This isn't some petty challenge where the EDL will be mouthing at the UAF. It will be a full blown arab spring show down.
    You covered it well
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    (Original post by Tsunaomi)
    If you would PLEASE stop taking Mr Farage's words out of context to incriminate him.

    If the vote was 52-48 to REMAIN, then the EU would need to be reformed(BUT REMAIN WE STILL WOULD), they can't ignore such a large number of people's unhappiness with the way the EU is, just like they are trying to make the EU exit as swift and painless as possible for the large number of remain voters! Doesn't mean that the majority doesn't still exist.
    That's a laughable interpretation of what Farage said. It was crystal clear at the time that he meant there was no way UKIP supporters would accept the result and that was what the bulk of the media reported it as meaning.
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    Sure, let's ignore the voters whom we've all agreed are disenfranchised and angry.

    I hope you're looking forward to the ToryKip coalition of 2020.
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    I'm sure Britain First actavists would take that well and wouldn't react in any negative way at all.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    That's a laughable interpretation of what Farage said. It was crystal clear at the time that he meant there was no way UKIP supporters would accept the result and that was what the bulk of the media reported it as meaning.
    "That was what the bulk of the media reported it as meaning"
    When has the media ever reported Farage's real meaning?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I don't think an act of parliament is needed to activate article 50 anyway?
    Nope. Treaty powers are a crown prerogative.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    proper control of the lesser races
    You say that, but then you deny the legitimacy of the working class Leave vote, which you regard as brutish and unrefined.

    You have lost your mind. If you want to see a livid working class electorate, undermine the legitimacy of our democracy and further draw into question the legitimacy of the EU, and see UKIP dominate the north and the midlands in the next GE, in the best case scenario, by all means press for this result to be set aside. I hope our leaders will have better sense than that, and I think they will.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    We've had debate, we've had almost a year of it, many of those debates took place in parliament. I don't think an act of parliament is needed to activate article 50 anyway?

    I think many would not want to, but they'd be under a tremendous amount of pressure from their voters. Ignoring the referendum result will anger every leave voter, alinate some of the fairer minded remain voters( like me ) and split the remain camp, there is nothing to be gained..
    I agree.

    Given the one thing MPs value more than their political views is their jobs, and refusing to implement the result of a referendum would likely have to result in a general election, unless all those who backed Remain were prepared to settle their differences and only one of them stand in each constituency, a backlash vote of the thwarted under our first past the post system could see scores if not hundreds lose their seats to UKIP.

    Labour certainly cannot rely on its core vote in entirety and the Conservatives would be in little better shape.

    A split remain vote but a cohesive Leave vote could end up with the worst possible outcome for our current crop of MPs and possibly the country.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's been fascinating listening to interviews with kippers during the last 24 hours in the media. Clearly this vote was only step 1 - the next step is proper control of the lesser races and a total winding back of the clock to about 1935.
    Whats going happen is this. There will be the usual riot of EDL types in Trafalgar square with the UAF types have them out numbered. Then a huge horn sounds.

    From the South comes all the Nationalists from Cornwall & Devon.
    From the North comes all the Nationalist Geordies.
    From the West comes all the Welsh Nationalists.
    From the East comes all the East Midland Nationalists.

    We'll have all our Banners visible.

    Doomsday Preppers, Evangelical Christians, Old School Rockers & Mods, British Motorcycle Gangs, Football Firms etc.

    And the Smug Marxists like Martin Smith (UAF) & Nick Lowles (Hope not Hate) will think how dare they as they run for cover.

    Will be like the Knights of the Vale coming to the rescue in Game of Thrones. And I'll be like Littlefinger smirking. "We have got you now little fishy's".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8BBatd9HxY
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Whats going happen is this. There will be the usual riot of EDL types in Trafalgar square with the UAF types have them out numbered. Then a huge horn sounds.

    From the South comes all the Nationalists from Cornwall & Devon.
    From the North comes all the Nationalist Geordies.
    From the West comes all the Welsh Nationalists.
    From the East comes all the East Midland Nationalists.

    We'll have all our Banners visible.

    Doomsday Preppers, Evangelical Christians, Old School Rockers & Mods, British Motorcycle Gangs, Football Firms etc.

    And the Smug Marxists like Martin Smith (UAF) & Nick Lowles (Hope not Hate) will think how dare they as they run for cover.

    Will be like the Knights of the Vale coming to the rescue in Game of Thrones. And I'll be like Littlefinger smirking. "We have got you now little fishy's".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8BBatd9HxY
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Nope. Treaty powers are a crown prerogative.
    Thanks, I have not seen it clearly stated anywhere but I assumed it was the case.
 
 
 
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