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    (Original post by banterboy)
    i left the labour party because this oft glorified "core support" is just a bunch of conservative, xenophobic, unimaginative, uneducated, anti-intellectual bunch of uncompromising bigots who think "hmm, this works economically, but its not what my dad voted for 20 years...must be some evil tory plot. I wont vote for this lot. What??? dont tell me these policies are in my interests, i wont read them, they arent what ive voted for for 40 years, change requires me to engage my brain and think, we cant have that".

    these people hold the party to ransom now.

    And thus a competent government platform and opposition is gone forever. There is no left wing alternative to the tories now. Might as well vote tory while they occupy the centre ground and support businesses.
    There was no left wing alternative on offer last May and if you think there was then **** me.


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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Like he just did in the EU campaign, whilst sabotaging it on the side, these people deserve each other.
    How did he sabotage it?


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    How did he sabotage it?


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    Refusing to work with Cameron, despite being asked by the In campaign, his own party and Gordon Brown, it was even suggested that Obama call him and ask him to work with Cameron but his aids said that would not work. This is despite it being shown by polling data that Cameron and Corbyn sharing a platform would boost the in vote among Labour voters. He refused to share voter data with the In Campaign and basically refused cooperation on almost every level. There is a BBC article on it here that goes into some of it.
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    God bless Hilary Benn and the Parliamentary Labour Party.

    Engage in democracy! Sign the petition to give Labour competent leadership https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitio...abour-leader-1

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36632956


    Currently 12 people have signed. Not much support for Hillary Benn and Co. there!

    Over 200,000 have signed the petition to support Jeremy Corbyn.
    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitio...n-after-brexit


    The MPs who have resigned are members of the right wing Progress Group - supported to the tune of 1.5 million quid from Lord Sainsbury etc. ( Eton, Cambridge, Job in Family Firm, inherited billions.) since 2010.

    Also supported by such groups as
    Britiish Venture Capital Association ( wants to privatise the NHS) - Chris Leslie
    Talk Talk - Chris Bryant
    Hitachi - Caroline Flint
    Tristram Hunt ( worked as Lord S's personal spokesman)

    Not to mention Ben Bradshaw, Stella Creasy, Liz Kendall ....attacking Andy Burnham for his anti market view of the NHS. Do we really want an American style Health Service? Do MPs such as these really have the interests of the British public at heart? Or, do they just want to line their own pockets and Jeremy Corbyn's policies eg to nationalise the Railways , invest in Industry, in the publicly owned NHS etc. will stop it?
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    He proposed whatever the focus groups told him. Though we live in a country where George Osborne is considered a centrist so it is no shock you think of Miliband as a commie.
    Calm down, pet. Try not to be so emotional. I'm a Labour member and Miliband supporter.

    He took to the election policies like breaking up the banks with a market share cap, creating a government bank to compete with the City of London in the small business loan market, repealing the bedroom tax, increasing corporation tax, implementing a new tax on banker bonuses, new tax on bank profits, new rights for tenants and a cap on rent increases, among many others. The idea that he was a Blairite can only come from someone who doesn't actually know much about the Labour Party or what policies he took to the election.

    It looks, like most Corbynites, when we get down to the actual policy detail you just don't have a ****ing clue, do you?
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    (Original post by pickup)
    The MPs who have resigned are members of the right wing Progress Group - supported to the tune of 1.5 million quid from Lord Sainsbury etc. ( Eton, Cambridge, Job in Family Firm, inherited billions.) since 2010.
    Dude, you're badly confused. There were no Blairites in the shadow cabinet, they all refused to serve in 2015. And most of the rest of the centrists were booted out in the reshuffle earlier in the year.

    Lisa Nandy has now said she will stand against Corbyn for the leadership; is she a Blairite now too? Not that long ago Corbynites were talking about her as a rising star and possible Corbyn successor
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    :lol: He looks insane
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    We need Burnham, he really should have been the leader in the first place even though I like Corbyn, he isn't a "leader". Now Burnham is all distracted with becoming Manchester Mayor and has pretty much ruled himself out.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Apparently things like rent control, mansion taxes, caps on energy prices etc are Tory Lite positions (that's not even taking into account his continuous rants about the undeserving rich) and the public - according to the Momentum lot - decided that these things weren't left wing enough. :rolleyes:

    Honestly, these nut cases are what's destroying the Labour Party.
    Well said. And not just that, Miliband took to the election a policy to break up the largest banks with a market share cap, and create a government-owned bank to compete with the City in the small business loan market. He wanted market share caps in the energy industry. He was going to increase corporation tax, repeal the hedge fund tax cut, repeal the "bedroom tax", bring railways back into public ownership and repeal the legal hurdles to local authorities investing in social housing.

    Most Corbynites don't really have a clue what a Blairite is or what Blairism even means. It's just a political epithet that essentially means "Anyone in the Labour Party who disagrees with me"
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    (Original post by Shadow Hunters)
    We need Burnham, he really should have been the leader in the first place even though I like Corbyn, he isn't a "leader". Now Burnham is all distracted with becoming Manchester Mayor and has pretty much ruled himself out.
    It's unclear how Burnham could manage to walk up to the podium to stand for the leadership election given his lack of spine.

    The man's an opportunist of the tawdriest variety. He's pathetic, hated by both Corbynites and the moderates. He disagrees with Corbyn's politics and knows the man is completely unelectable but has clung on to Shadow Home Secretary in the hope, somehow, that he can succeed Corbyn. Almost no one in the party likes him or will vote for him
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    Watching this unfold and the Momentum reaction is very revealing. They keep talking about how the membership are behind Corbyn, but the membership are not the same as the UK electorate. The shadow cabinet are not resigning because they feel Corbyn lacks the support of the party members, they are leaving because Corbyn cannot win an election. This seems like a case of winning the base and losing the country.
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    Judging by Tom Watson's comments this morning, Corbyn's position is untenable. May be Labour will finally wake up and start to address where they have been going wrong. Although their mentality over the last 6+ years suggests they won't.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Watching this unfold and the Momentum reaction is very revealing. They keep talking about how the membership are behind Corbyn, but the membership are not the same as the UK electorate. The shadow cabinet are not resigning because they feel Corbyn lacks the support of the party members, they are leaving because Corbyn cannot win an election. This seems like a case of winning the base and losing the country.
    Indeed. And if Momentum are so sure of his numbers then they won't object to them being tested in a leadership election.

    In any case, the parliamentary Labour party has a mandate of 9 million votes, not 400,000. And it becomes increasingly tiresome how the Corbynista imply that Labour MPs have no right to an opinion on the subject. There's a reason MPs decide who gets on the ballot; a Labour or Conservative leader who can't even command the support of their own MPs cannot plausibly carry out the function of party leader in a Westminster political system, especially not as Prime Minister.

    The party has legal advice that Corbyn will not automatically be on the ballot., he'll need those 36 nominations. He will struggle to get them, I hope he is excluded from the ballot. The Corbynite tears will be delicious
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    It's unclear how Burnham could manage to walk up to the podium to stand for the leadership election given his lack of spine.

    The man's an opportunist of the tawdriest variety. He's pathetic, hated by both Corbynites and the moderates. He disagrees with Corbyn's politics and knows the man is completely unelectable but has clung on to Shadow Home Secretary in the hope, somehow, that he can succeed Corbyn. Almost no one in the party likes him or will vote for him
    Eh? Did you see his Hillsborough speech? It was great! He has the charisma that Corbyn seems to lack. He clearly has a spine because he refuses to take part in the coup or whatever is going on despite pressures from other MP's. I feel like his biggest mistake was backing Corbyn if I'm honest. Also he's from the North so could help out a lot with gaining back Labour voters there, if there was another election, I fear Labour heartlands could become UKIP constituencies. He would be better to lead the party than Corbyn right now but unfortunately for possibly reasons you've said and the fact he seems disinterested, he will probably not be the next Labour leader. Shame because I feel like there aren't many options for leader, especially none that can win them an election.
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    (Original post by Shadow Hunters)
    Eh? Did you see his Hillsborough speech? It was great! He has the charisma that Corbyn seems to lack. He clearly has a spine because he refuses to take part in the coup or whatever is going on despite pressures from other MP's. I feel like his biggest mistake was backing Corbyn if I'm honest. Also he's from the North so could help out a lot with gaining back Labour voters there, if there was another election, I fear Labour heartlands could become UKIP constituencies. He would be better to lead the party than Corbyn right now but unfortunately for possibly reasons you've said and the fact he seems disinterested, he will probably not be the next Labour leader. Shame because I feel like there aren't many options for leader, especially none that can win them an election.
    Charisma is not the first word that comes to mind when I see Burnham. And his refusal to take part in the coup shows his spine? It shows he's terrified of the Momentum crowd and hopes to make them his base one day. He refuses to act even though actual Corbyn supporters like Lisa Nandy are putting themselves out there and conceding Corbyn cannot win (and if that is the case, it is immoral to allow him to continue as leader)
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    Judging by Tom Watson's comments this morning, Corbyn's position is untenable. May be Labour will finally wake up and start to address where they have been going wrong. Although their mentality over the last 6+ years suggests they won't.
    It seems quite counterproductive for the membership to force a leader on the party who is incapable of commanding the support of the parliamentary party. If a leader cannot do that, they cannot plausibly carry out the functions of a party leader in a Westminster political system.

    There's a good reason MPs decide who gets on the ballot, and they should exercise that power this time around to exclude Corbyn from the leadership election. He only had around 15 real supporters last time, all of the other nominations came from well-meaning moderate idiots who thought the hard left should have a voice in the leadership election or by calculating individuals who hoped a bad loss would discredit the hard left.

    Corbyn should be kept off the ballot for the good of the party, and such a move by MPs is completely justifiable in light of how parliamentary government works and in light of the fact they have a mandate of 9 million votes in total
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Charisma is not the first word that comes to mind when I see Burnham. And his refusal to take part in the coup shows his spine? It shows he's terrified of the Momentum crowd and hopes to make them his base one day. He refuses to act even though actual Corbyn supporters like Lisa Nandy are putting themselves out there and conceding Corbyn cannot win (and if that is the case, it is immoral to allow him to continue as leader)
    No, I think it shows he realises the Labour Party have to be united and not divided so he will not be leaving the shadow cabinet, that's not spineless. It's outrageous really what the shadow cabinet are doing at such a monumental time! They've wanted Corbyn out for ages and are taking advantage of the opportunity. I do think Corbyn should have resigned by now but I think Burnham is a good candidate for leader, still I do worry we are witnessing now, the death of the Labour Party.
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    25 have now resigned

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Refusing to work with Cameron, despite being asked by the In campaign, his own party and Gordon Brown, it was even suggested that Obama call him and ask him to work with Cameron but his aids said that would not work. This is despite it being shown by polling data that Cameron and Corbyn sharing a platform would boost the in vote among Labour voters. He refused to share voter data with the In Campaign and basically refused cooperation on almost every level. There is a BBC article on it here that goes into some of it.
    Ah yes, because the BBC has no vested interest in getting rid of him. 70% of Labour voters voted Remain, and even more of young people. Answer me these questions:

    1. Who called the referendum?

    2. Who rigged the deck in his favour and used government money to support Remain campaign materials?

    3. Who rushed a series of negotiations and achieved nothing from them?

    4. Who used scare tactics to persuade voters to vote Remain?

    This is David Cameron's doing, entirely. To blame Labour for not getting him out of his own mess is a ****ing joke.


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