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Scotland can't do referendums any time they want watch

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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I know that. I'm clearly not talking about regional variations in the banking system. I never said the British state is uniform across the country. The layman doesn't care about what church is established north of the border. They do however care about the SNP's notion that democracy is 8% of the UK population being able to veto the wishes of the other 92%.
    The point is that Scotland is and always has been regarded as a distinct entity with autonomy and different institutions within the UK and Great Britain before it, which were part of the terms of Scotland uniting with England in the first place. That is the flaw in arguments like this:

    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    So will any regions that vote against independence be allowed to stay in the UK? Why should they be dragged out against their will? Where does it end?
    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    The same situation will happen in an independent Scotland. What happens if the Lowlands don't vote the same way as the Highlands? Will you split up into two smaller countries?
    Scotland is and always has been recognised as more than just a mere administrative or geographical region, because of the process through which it united with England. Like it or not, Scotland is indeed entitled to different treatment and rights than say, Yorkshire. You can make the argument that this distinct status is not enough in itself to be the basis for a right of secession, but to argue Scotland is simply the same as an English region is simply untrue.
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    I said Scotland should have voted for independence when they had the chance. They will not have a revote because in this specific moment London knows the independence would certainly win. 'Better together' campaign lol
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    Not stupid at all as facts prove. They want to remain in the EU and the English voted to leave. Then the English rule.
    I'm sorry, but you could say exactly the same thing if you broke the vote down on racial, class or gender grounds too. In a democracy, we are all equal: we all have one vote and that vote counts for the same. No part of a country, or class of people within it, rules anyone and to suggest otherwise is a very strange and perverse misunderstanding of how our system of government works.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I'm sorry, but you could say exactly the same thing if you broke the vote down on racial, class or gender grounds too. In a democracy, we are all equal: we all have one vote and that vote counts for the same. No part of a country, or class of people within it, rules anyone and to suggest otherwise is a very strange and perverse misunderstanding of how our system of government works.
    If 66% of one specific race or class voted for one point and another race voted the opposite,with the latter winning the vote,then it would be fair to say that one class rules on the other one. Scottish people by landslide majority want to remain in the EU but because the English want to Leave, then Scots are forced to Leave. It wouldn't be the same if Scotland was an independent country.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    If 66% of one specific race or class voted for one point and another race voted the opposite,with the latter winning the vote,then it would be fair to say that one class rules on the other one.
    So you think white people rule black people in the United Kingdom.

    That's just perverse.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    So you think white people rule black people in the United Kingdom.

    That's just perverse.
    No because white people don't vote on mass all together and black people don't vote on mass either. They're split with voting. But on points that matter,if the English decide they want something they get it their own way and not even 100% of Scots can oppose the English.
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    It's funny because one of the main arguments against Scottish independence was the fact that they'd be kicked out of the EU. So people vote to remain andddd we get dragged out by England and Wales anyway lol. Hope the Unionists who voted yes feel as stupid as they should.


    Also ironic how hypocritical and undemocratic many English leave voters appear to be when it comes to talking about Scottish independence.


    In an ideal world Scotland would leave the union and join the EU. However at this point it doesn't look very likely.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    No because white people don't vote on mass all together and black people don't vote on mass either.
    Neither does any group of people, barring political party supporters.

    They're split with voting. But on points that matter,if the English decide they want something they get it their own way and not even 100% of Scots can oppose the English.
    I really think you need to step away from the keyboard, have a sit down and actually rethink what you're posting here for five minutes. You've come to a rationally indefensible and ridiculous conclusion. You may have reasoned yourself into this mess, but there's some very flawed logic on the way to it, and you've ended up with an outcome that is frankly laughable.
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    It's funny because one of the main arguments against Scottish independence was the fact that they'd be kicked out of the EU. So people vote to remain andddd we get dragged out by England and Wales anyway lol. Hope the Unionists who voted yes feel as stupid as they should.
    Unionists voted "no", and I'm afraid I don't see what's funny about it. People like me supported staying in the EU in 2014 and chose the only option that would achieve that. It was not a key theme of the Scottish referendum campaign, but it was there. In 2016, we voted for the same outcome and were beaten.

    In an ideal world Scotland would leave the union and join the EU. However at this point it doesn't look very likely.
    Why would we want to enter one economic block by leaving one that we trade four times as much with? The idea is frankly draft, even in theory or in an ideal world.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Unionists voted "no", and I'm afraid I don't see what's funny about it. People like me supported staying in the EU in 2014 and chose the only option that would achieve that. It was not a key theme of the Scottish referendum campaign, but it was there. In 2016, we voted for the same outcome and were beaten.



    Why would we want to enter one economic block by leaving one that we trade four times as much with? The idea is frankly draft, even in theory or in an ideal world.
    Not a key theme? Sorry but are you delusional or what? Along with the issue of currency, it was one of the main issues constantly brought up by Unionists, such as yourself.

    Oh are you saying that the trading Scotland currently does with the UK would cease? Ha. If you want to call financial experts and Business owners daft then that's up to you. Then again you did vote to the leave the EU so...

    Do you have any idea of the potential benefits Edinburgh and Scotland as a whole would receive if it were to remain in the EU? Financial institutions currently residing in England would consider Edinburgh to be a very attractive proposition to re-locate which would see Edinburgh becoming a major financial services hub.

    Oh and there's the fact that you know, Scotland, democratically want to remain in the EU? Like I said, hypocritical. You care about the democratic process only when it suits yourself.
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    If Brexit really does turn out to plunge the UK in to recession and cause chaos one of the ironies is that when the inevitable second referendum happens in Scotland, "project fear" will be more effective: Scotland, at a time like this, do you really want to take a jump in to the dark, you never know where it could lead, like with Brexit....
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    Not a key theme? Sorry but are you delusional or what? Along with the issue of currency, it was one of the main issues constantly brought up by Unionists, such as yourself.
    I'd argue that the key themes of the campaign were economic. While the EU was always an issue, it didn't connect with floating voters in the same way. The only reason it took on such a great deal of centrality was because (1) it was tangential to the currency argument given the state of the Eurozone and (2) it was an area where the pro-union parties could easily hang the (entirely correct) accusation of lying on Alex Salmond over legal advice.

    Oh are you saying that the trading Scotland currently does with the UK would cease? Ha. If you want to call financial experts and Business owners daft then that's up to you. Then again you did vote to the leave the EU so...
    Well, yes, of course I'm saying trade with the rest of the UK would decline if we were outside the UK. The idea that it would "cease" is of course a strange nonsense that you've invented. I'm not sure what financial experts of business owners you're citing here, but there was as close as you can possibly come to a consensus among business organisations and financial research bodies in 2014 that Scotland was better off in the UK.

    In other false claims, I do question how you possibly thought you could get away with claiming I was a Leave voter. I have not only stated quite clearly on this forum that I was a Remain voter - and a very strong one at that - I've consistently argued for that position on here.

    I get the feeling that you're a tad cavalier with facts.

    Do you have any idea of the potential benefits Edinburgh and Scotland as a whole would receive if it were to remain in the EU? Financial institutions currently residing in England would consider Edinburgh to be a very attractive proposition to re-locate which would see Edinburgh becoming a major financial services hub.
    I doubt that's true for a proposed state without a viable currency option and the largest budget deficit in the EU.

    There are of course a good few financial services institutions in Scotland, which are supported by the fact that we're in the UK. Many of them have actively stated that is a key component of their business here.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    If Brexit really does turn out to plunge the UK in to recession and cause chaos one of the ironies is that when the inevitable second referendum happens in Scotland, "project fear" will be more effective: Scotland, at a time like this, do you really want to take a jump in to the dark, you never know where it could lead, like with Brexit....
    It's an interesting dynamic. As much as I opposed it, the consequences of Brexit possibly leading to a recession is not direct: it depends on market response and the stability that can be brought about.

    On the other hand, Scotland leaving the UK almost automatically creates a recession, given the £8 billion fiscal gap that would realistically have to be plugged by cutting public spending, over and above the measures the UK is taking. Drop public spending that much (in a short timeframe and in a country of five million people) and a recession can almost be assured.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Neither does any group of people, barring political party supporters.



    I really think you need to step away from the keyboard, have a sit down and actually rethink what you're posting here for five minutes. You've come to a rationally indefensible and ridiculous conclusion. You may have reasoned yourself into this mess, but there's some very flawed logic on the way to it, and you've ended up with an outcome that is frankly laughable.
    It's not laughable and proof is that Scotland wants to leave the UK because they don't want to accept a decision made by the English. If I was wrong,why would Scots want to leave the UK exactly after this referendum?
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    Look the facts are thus....

    They had a referendum and voted in the leader said it was a decision for a generation.

    When not if the snp demand another referendum they will trot out the line you just had one it was for a generation and stone wall it.

    The snp do not have the power to make one happen they won't be an independent nation for decades and we will leave the eu.

    The more interesting point will be on what terms we leave.

    It seems a very British solution to have the Norway model pay into the budget and accept immigrants from the eu.

    However the budget payments will be lower and it won't be complete free movement they will use the line of we will allow the free movement of labour full well knowing we can't tell which is which when they come in.

    Our history is littered with compromises like this.

    It also nullifies Scottish and northern Irish issues


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    (Original post by paul514)

    It seems a very British solution to have the Norway model pay into the budget and accept immigrants from the eu.
    There is a touch of the Dreadnought debate about this. As Churchill said

    "The Conservatives wanted six; the Liberals wanted four; we compromised on eight."
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Look the facts are thus....

    They had a referendum and voted in the leader said it was a decision for a generation.

    When not if the snp demand another referendum they will trot out the line you just had one it was for a generation and stone wall it.

    The snp do not have the power to make one happen they won't be an independent nation for decades and we will leave the eu.

    The more interesting point will be on what terms we leave.

    It seems a very British solution to have the Norway model pay into the budget and accept immigrants from the eu.

    However the budget payments will be lower and it won't be complete free movement they will use the line of we will allow the free movement of labour full well knowing we can't tell which is which when they come in.

    Our history is littered with compromises like this.

    It also nullifies Scottish and northern Irish issues


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    No it doesn't.
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    That silly Sturgron woman thinks that she is impotant.She is irrelevant, and cannot call a referendum,as it is not a devolved power
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    (Original post by Rirjfbfn)
    That silly Sturgron woman thinks that she is impotant.She is irrelevant, and cannot call a referendum,as it is not a devolved power
    She is probably the most well-supported leader of any major party across the UK. I have no doubt she'll be cornced you aren't a fan though.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    They voted to remain in the UK so they're not a free and independent nation. They voted to remain in the UK and having a small population it means the English rule on Scotland. If they voted for independence then they would have the right to join the EU. The English will concede a new referendum in 2036. Till then, 'Better Together'
    oh the irony
 
 
 
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