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If you ever think when has a a mass shooting been stopped by a armed civilian USA Watch

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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Like I said before, only a fool would give up their right to defend themselves and look to the Gov. to protect them.

    We've had guns in this country for a long time. Carrying concealed was common even in large cities. there were walking canes that fired rounds, small derringers , and large caliber revolvers that were made smaller to fit in the pocket. Most all of these could be bought in hardware stores without even showing an I.D.
    My point is this; Mass shootings by a single individual,( organised crime excluded), were rare. Most Americans feel they will be a thing of the past much like individuals who poisoned consumer products on store shelves. These incidents are now a real rarity. We would be stupid to give up our guns because of a threat that may soon be over.

    But, to be honest, this is all an exercise in babbling B.S. I don't need to justify gun ownership to ANYONE. Like you mockingly said in your first sentence, It's my constitutional right."
    They aren't rare, like I said this February there were three school shootings, there have been three mass shootings in the UK in the last thirty years.

    Why do you think the police are so quick to pull guns out? Yes some of them are just horrible individuals but if I know someone may well have a gun on them then I'm going to get mine ready


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    These were simple shootings. I didn't even bother to look at every page because of the obvious anti gun bias. Florida was the only mass shooting I saw. Can you tell me how many of those were justified shootings? I prefer F.B.I. statistics.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    These were simple shootings.
    As you can tell from the heading, they are mass shootings - definition: FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event, at the same general time and location not including the shooter.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    So you encourage all these frail people to walk around all day with their hands on the trigger, safety off, just waiting for an accident to happen when they trip or stumble?

    You should be agitating for the constitution to grant you rights to be intelligent rather than rights to carry guns.
    When they found themselves in a threatening situation.

    Women are attacked numerous times everyday here and a certain number of them use guns to defend themselves Why would you deny them that?
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    When they found themselves in a threatening situation.
    Ah! They should wait until they are nervous, possibly shaking, before putting their finger on the trigger of an unsafe gun in public which they cannot actually see. That sounds very safe.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    As you can tell from the heading, they are mass shootings - definition: FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event, at the same general time and location not including the shooter.
    I'd think most are gang related. Gang member shooting gang member. Except for the occasional bystander being hit, whats the downside?
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    I'd think most are gang related. Gang member shooting gang member. Except for the occasional bystander being hit, whats the downside?

    You don't like bystanders, do you?
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    I'd think most are gang related. Gang member shooting gang member. Except for the occasional bystander being hit, whats the downside?
    You're right, what's problem with having people shoot each other because they have different friends...


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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Ah! They should wait until they are nervous, possibly shaking, before putting their finger on the trigger of an unsafe gun in public which they cannot actually see. That sounds very safe.
    All great points if you've never fired a gun, are afraid of them, believe no one should own one, would deny the right to own one, and thinks all gun are really, really, " ecky".
    If your not included in the above described group your points could be seen as unrealistic and really stupid.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    If your not included in the above described group your points could be seen as unrealistic and really stupid.
    That may be true, as is the reverse. I'm very glad I live in a country that takes a different attitude to gambling with its inhabitants lives to that of the USA.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You're right, what's problem with having people shoot each other because they have different friends...


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    "....because they have different friends". That's too funny dude. Never heard it put quite like that.
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    This conversation all seems rather unfortunate now that so many American police officers have been killed in a new type of mass shooting event: targeting law enforcement. Five dead and seven injured by how many gunmen out to avenge an apparent injustice which was not perpetrated upon them personally. I wonder if their guns were licensed?
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    How was this in any way a mass shooting it sounds like a drunken hillbilly doing what they usually do to settle disputes...

    Not to mention if they didnt have the right to bare arms like this the offender likely wouldnt hve had one to discharge anyway making the point moot no?
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    I meant the incidents of consumer products being poisoned.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I would describe myself as politically right wing yet I'm not in favour of everyone being their own personal security so your sweeping assumption is wrong. The simple fact of the matter is developed countries with stricter laws on guns have fewer homicides


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    Don't they also have freedom of speech in developed countries?

    I guess to some you may be right wing but if you're really not in favor of everyone being their own personal security "force", your on a political spectrum I'm not familiar with. Even if you really believe this you still have to realize your responsible for your own self defense.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Don't they also have freedom of speech in developed countries?
    To varying extents. I don't see the relevance?

    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    I guess to some you may be right wing but if you're really not in favor of everyone being their own personal security "force", your on a political spectrum I'm not familiar with. Even if you really believe this you still have to realize your responsible for your own self defense.
    Leaning one way on a political spectrum does not mean all of your beliefs lean that way.




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    At the latest Dallas shooting there was a guy carrying an Ar-15 (open carry) and he immediately gave it to police out of fear of being mistaken for the gunman. Also given the murder rate by gun in the US, it's hard to argue that the availability of guns is making people safer due to the 'good guy with a gun makes us all safer and will save us all' myth.

    In 2010, the US had an average murder rate of 4.8 murders per 100,000 people—4 times higher than the UK's rate of 1.2 per 100,000
    The home front: So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.
    source: http://www.politifact.com/
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    . Florida was the only mass shooting I saw.
    Nonsense! Every one of them has at least four casualties.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    To varying extents. I don't see the relevance?



    Leaning one way on a political spectrum does not mean all of your beliefs lean that way.




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    There are no, " varying extents " in your freedom of speech. Your are free to express your ideas as you wish or you aren't. There is no justifiable point in the debate.

    You are right about trying to identify the whole of a persons beliefs from one issue. Here in U.S. gun control has become the central celebrity cause that all on the left have to join to acquire their, " bona fides ", Wailing for gun control and a public denouncement of the N.R.A. are essential.

    If you hear someone screaming for gun control, it's almost a certainty they will plague you with all the lefts solutions to everything.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    There are no, " varying extents " in your freedom of speech. Your are free to express your ideas as you wish or you aren't. There is no justifiable point in the debate.

    You are right about trying to identify the whole of a persons beliefs from one issue. Here in U.S. gun control has become the central celebrity cause that all on the left have to join to acquire their, " bona fides ", Wailing for gun control and a public denouncement of the N.R.A. are essential.

    If you hear someone screaming for gun control, it's almost a certainty they will plague you with all the lefts solutions to everything.
    Of course there are varying extents, every country puts a limit on free speech, some limits are are harsher.

    Well I'd be screaming for gun control as well as lower tax, reduced government spending and increased privatisation


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