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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    The terrorist didn't seem to follow/know much about Islam.....like the vast majority of other so called 'Islamic' terrorists. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rticle-3691895

    Stop making Islam a scapegoat
    Never read the Quran have you?

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    (Original post by Karosan)
    Oh here we go...the number of TIMES i've had to explain these grossly out of context quotes to Islamophobes, infact looking down the list a can clearly identify a number that have been fabricated...not even going to bother anymore. I'd assume that you are intelligent enought to do your own research, because if you had you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself like your are now by posting something so highly misleading and inaccurate.
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    (Original post by Karosan)
    Never read the Quran have you?

    Nope i've memorized the Quran and have spent the last few years studying it in depth since it forms the basis of my belief. YOU clearly haven't.
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Oh here we go...the number of TIMES i've had to explain these grossly out of context quotes to Islamophobes, infact looking down the list a can clearly identify a number that have been fabricated...not even going to bother anymore. I'd assume that you are intelliegent enought to do your own research, because if you had you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself like your are now by posting something so highly misleading and inaccurate.
    8:12 direct quote

    when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."http://quran.com/8/12
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Nope i've memorized the Quran and have spent the last few years studying it in depth since it forms the basis of my belief. YOU clearly haven't.
    Then you would agree the Quran has very violent verses and so you can understand why people would follow the commands through their literalist interpretation?
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Nope i've memorized the Quran and have spent the last few years studying it in depth since it forms the basis of my belief. YOU clearly haven't.
    " you dont know what islam says , where does it say anything like that- have you ever even read the quran?

    <posts quote from quran>

    "you are always reading the quran out of context- this is not meant for us in 2016 "
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    (Original post by Josb)
    The Quran is supposed to be timeless and the true word of God.
    Sure. If the battle in question did occur, and the Muslims believe Muhammad was indeed commanded to destroy some contemporary enemy, then that verse is timelessly true. It's a historical description, as opposed to the timeless prescription.

    Such violent verses will have a terrible effect on violent individuals, who will identify with Mohamed's fighters and follow his commands.
    The scripture, or its author(s) cannot be blamed for the lack of comprehension skills of some followers and/or preachers who do not explain the context of apparent calls for violence in the Qur'an, especially when there are other, explicit verses that provide injunctions regarding the treatment of non-Muslims in an existing Islamic state, rules of warfare, etc.

    If there were a continuous streak of attacks involving Jews or Christians finding their inspiration in their holy book, I would say that these religions need a reformation to end their inherent violence. Muslims must either drop the "Quran is the timeless word of god", or remove its nasty parts, as most Christians and Jews did. They can't keep both of them.
    I don't think you understand what Muslims mean when they say the Qur'an is timeless. Putting aside the fact that the verse you posted was never meant to be a timeless command even while Muhammad was alive, mainstream Muslim scholars, who are considered a source of guidance, do not believe all the legislative commands within the Qur'an apply today. An example would be the following:

    "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable)witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses untildeath do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way."

    Evidently, this doesn't apply today; the command to confine was abrogated according to Muslims. Clearly, the Qur'an is not timeless in the way you might interpret.
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Nope i've memorized the Quran and have spent the last few years studying it in depth since it forms the basis of my belief. YOU clearly haven't.
    Quick question:

    Do you think someone with a doctorate for Islamic studies in Quranic studies would be able to produce valid a interpretation of the Quran?

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    (Original post by Karosan)
    8:12 direct quote

    when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."http://quran.com/8/12
    Have you read the whole surah? Do you even know what that's talking about??? Lmao i've had enough of arguing with people who've never once sat down and read the quran properly rather than pulling up stuff they find online... can't be bothered anymore.
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Have you read the whole surah? Do you even know what that's talking about??? Lmao i've had enough of arguing with people who've never once sat down and read the quran properly rather than pulling up stuff they find online... can't be bothered anymore.
    "Can't be bothered anymore"... oh so I have taken it out of context well if you have read the Quran can you put that into context?
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    " you dont know what islam says , where does it say anything like that- have you ever even read the quran?

    <posts quote from quran>

    "you are always reading the quran out of context- this is not meant for us in 2016 "
    Yeh because instead of posting a short quote how about who post the entire passage with the quote included?? More often than not it isn't implying what you think. I said I wouldn't bother arguing because 99% of the time it's futile but i'll give an example. The 'kill them where you find them' in context of the whole surah is talking about a very specific battle and even then, if you continue reading, Muhammad (pbuh) is told to forgive the wrongdoers if they have realised the consequence of their bad actions. And no by bad I don't mean being a disbeliever, the Muslims were forced out of their homelands and persecuted for their beliefs by these people.
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Yeh because instead of posting a short quote how about who post the entire passage with the quote included?? More often than not it isn't implying what you think. I said I wouldn't bother arguing because 99% of the time it's futile but i'll give an example. The 'kill them where you find them' in context of the whole surah is talking about a very specific battle and even then, if you continue reading, Muhammad (pbuh) is told to forgive the wrongdoers if they have realised the consequence of their bad actions. And no by bad I don't mean being a disbeliever, the Muslims were forced out of their homelands and persecuted for their beliefs by these people.
    Now put this in context

    8:12 direct quote

    when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
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    (Original post by Karosan)
    "Can't be bothered anymore"... oh so I have taken it out of context well if you have read the Quran can you put that into context?
    Yeh, I could put it into context but i'm not going to sit here and write out a bloody essay, i've done that far too many times before. People like you are very set on their views on Islam and I can sit and debate for hours yet you won't change your mind. I've got better stuff to do, you know? If you were genuinely curious there are PLENTY of resources available frm reliable Islamic sources. Everything's already out there so yeh, I'd rather not waste my time thanks.
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Yeh, I could put it into context but i'm not going to sit here and write out a bloody essay, i've done that far too many times before. People like you are very set on their views on Islam and I can sit and debate for hours yet you won't change your mind. I've got better stuff to do, you know? If you were genuinely curious there are PLENTY of resources available frm reliable Islamic sources. Everything's already out there so yeh, I'd rather not waste my time thanks.
    You can't put that one "in context" can you? It's not an essay it's a sentence so don't make pathetic excuses. If you defend Islam then defend it.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    You are legitimising this persons actions by differentiating him from murderers through accepting his purported motive, shame on you. Islam did not kill anyone, an angry, hateful man did and he is a murderer. Do you really think insulting the religion of 1.5 billion people is the right thing to do?
    Preach!
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    You are legitimising this persons actions by differentiating him from murderers through accepting his purported motive, shame on you. Islam did not kill anyone, an angry, hateful man did and he is a murderer. Do you really think insulting the religion of 1.5 billion people is the right thing to do?
    :rolleyes: This old chestnut. It isn't legitimising the persons actions. Islam is part of the issue. The religion deserves to be called out, it deserves blame, and it deserves to be insulted. It's because of people like you and attitudes like yours that religion doesn't get enough of the blame and critique that it deserves.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Sure. If the battle in question did occur, and the Muslims believe Muhammad was indeed commanded to destroy some contemporary enemy, then that verse is timelessly true. It's a historical description, as opposed to the timeless prescription.
    But precisely, Salafi want to live like Mohamed in his time, this verse is still perfectly valid nowadays by their logic. The fact that it wasn't issued as a prescription is not relevant for them, as everything that Mohamed did is a timeless prescription.


    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    The scripture, or its author(s) cannot be blamed for the lack of comprehension skills of some followers and/or preachers who do not explain the context of apparent calls for violence in the Qur'an, especially when there are other, explicit verses that provide injunctions regarding the treatment of non-Muslims in an existing Islamic state, rules of warfare, etc.
    The fact that some people choose to disregard the violent parts doesn't mean that we should ignore those who do not. The book is generally peaceful, but has some violent verses that negate the general tone.


    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    I don't think you understand what Muslims mean when they say the Qur'an is timeless.
    You cannot generalise all Muslims on that point.

    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Putting aside the fact that the verse you posted was never meant to be a timeless command even while Muhammad was alive, mainstream Muslim scholars, who are considered a source of guidance, do not believe all the legislative commands within the Qur'an apply today.
    Here is the problem, not all Muslim scholars are "mainstream".
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Oh here we go...the number of TIMES i've had to explain these grossly out of context quotes to Islamophobes, infact looking down the list a can clearly identify a number that have been fabricated...not even going to bother anymore. I'd assume that you are intelligent enought to do your own research, because if you had you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself like your are now by posting something so highly misleading and inaccurate.
    I can't wait to hear you explain how the context of the part where it asks believers to chop off people's fingers makes it totally benevolent.
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    @Karosan
    The verse you are alluding to came at a time when Muhammad(pbuh) and the Muslims were in a specific battle. "Those who have disbelieved" was not referring to all non Muslims but those who were persecuting the Muslims and who were in a war with them.
    On top of that how can you say "you can't put that into context". Can you not accept that people have lives to live and have better things to do than argue with you and respond to quotes you have completely taken out of context. Not every single Muslim can put these quotes into context because not every single Muslim has studied quranic sciences and interpretations. Your previous quote was answered yet all you seem to be able to do is take more quotes out of context. Don't you understand that after a while people can no longer be bothered to answer to you.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I can't wait to hear you explain how the context of the part where it asks believers to chop off people's fingers makes it totally benevolent.
    I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
    http://quran.com/8/12
 
 
 
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