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    (Original post by M14B)
    I am a xenophobe and have no issue with it.
    You are an apologist and it is ok by me too
    lol who am I apologising for? did I ever say "sorry" for anything? I'm just offering an alternative to the classic TSR bigots "Islam is the problem" when clearly it isn't that one-dimensional.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    lol who am I apologising for? did I ever say "sorry" for anything? I'm just offering an alternative to the classic TSR bigots "Islam is the problem" when clearly it isn't that one-dimensional.
    Are you related to lolatmaths ?
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    I'm suggesting that a large amount of "Islamist terror attacks" are not done by a heart-filled desire to save Islam, but rather as a consequence of corruption, war and oppression - all of which manifest in Middle Eastern countries like Syria and Iraq. The initial cause is therefore not solely Islam, and yelling "religion of peace" is simply divisive and incorrect, when radicalisation is not sourced initially from Islam and there are so many other causes.
    4.34
    "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."


    I struggle to see how Islam is not behind oppression in the Middle East.
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    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    There were 13, 500 knife assaults last year in Britain according to:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33547806

    We're all adults here. If you want to talk race, just go ahead and do it.

    What you just posted was 'Anecdotal' evidence - Specific examples that might or might not fit whatever agenda you have.

    Instead of vaguely suggestive titles, why not just post solutions? If you want to build a wall, say "We should build a wall because X-group is more likely to commit bad thing Y. Here is my evidence and here is how it will work. The down sides of solution X is problem Y."

    When you post anecdotal evidence, it's essentially meaningless. 4 people got stabbed by a random, potentially crazy person. That happens and it's terrible. On the other hand, the evidence that led you to your beliefs might be very compelling. Or it might be total excrement. We don't know because you haven't actually made an argument but simply posted a random event.
    I wonder if there is any statistics on what percentage of those attacks were gang or argument based as opposed to ideology based. To me, attacking someone because they aren't 'covered up' when wearing a T-shirt and shorts suggests some kind of ideology and not just random disagreements.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Pure speculation implies that the entire post is speculative, clearly you've revised your comment to point out that a part of it is speculation instead.
    I'll be pedantic with you for the last time.

    If what I said *implies* that the entire post was speculative, how the hell can it be be *clear* that I've revised my comment? To imply something is to hint or insinuate - in other words - NOT TO BE EXPLICIT.

    So yeah, you could have _inferred_ that I was talking about your entire post. But my next reply cleared that up. Explicitly

    The ironic thing was that I was semi jokingly pointing out to say that you're other accusations to other people were too far, and that you were entitled to question him.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    4.34
    "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."


    I struggle to see how Islam is not behind oppression in the Middle East.
    My original point is about terrorism, not Islamic oppression. And the oppression that I was talking about in the post to which you replied is the sort of oppression that comes from brutal regimes like Assad, whereby the opposition is systematically removed and any democratic opponents to him are targeted. Not Islamic discrimination of women.
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    I wish people would stop responding to the swiss-cheese troll - all he's doing is derailing the thread and making wild accusations. Just ignore him!
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    My original point is about terrorism, not Islamic oppression. And the oppression that I was talking about in the post to which you replied is the sort of oppression that comes from brutal regimes like Assad, whereby the opposition is systematically removed and any democratic opponents to him are targeted. Not Islamic discrimination of women.
    So you're unhappy with me assuming I knew *exactly* what kind of oppression you were referring to? Do you see how this links to the way you twisted OPs words?

    Anyway, regimes like Assad's in the ME have their basis in Islam and use it to further their systematic oppression of women and homosexuals and indeed anyone they fancy. The fact that it is perfectly within standard interpreation of the Quran for them to do so is disturbing, as so many people cherish such a brutal book.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Go on then, I'll bite. What unsupported assertion have I made in this thread?
    It's right there in the post chap.
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    No matter what you think you know about him
    , he could have said and done what he did for any number of reasons much like good old Gordon.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    So you're unhappy with me assuming I knew *exactly* what kind of oppression you were referring to? Do you see how this links to the way you twisted OPs words?

    Anyway, regimes like Assad's in the ME have their basis in Islam and use it to further their systematic oppression of women and homosexuals and indeed anyone they fancy. The fact that it is perfectly within standard interpreation of the Quran for them to do so is disturbing, as so many people cherish such a brutal book.
    If the basis for corrupt regimes is Islam, why do we have countries like Indonesia, which is about 90% Muslim, being comparably well off with none of this conflict and relatively few terror attacks?
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    I wish people would stop responding to the swiss-cheese troll - all he's doing is derailing the thread and making wild accusations. Just ignore him!
    I would, but for some reason his arguments really GRATE on me.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    meanwhile 300 Muslims die in Baghdad because of terrorism, but you're getting all teary about something as small as this? certainly just because it fits your islamphobic (note I say islamphobic as fear of Islam, not islamophobia) agenda.
    you really have lost perspective of things

    nothing prevents people from being concerned both about stabbings in France and about terror attacks in Baghdad

    or in Burma, Zimbabwe, Liechtenstein, Alpha Centauri ...
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    If the basis for corrupt regimes is Islam, why do we have countries like Indonesia, which is about 90% Muslim, being comparably well off with none of this conflict and relatively few terror attacks?
    I believe Indonesia is constitutionally secular. So the people are not forcibly indoctrinated with hate
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    I wish people would stop responding to the swiss-cheese troll - all he's doing is derailing the thread and making wild accusations. Just ignore him!
    you're probably right

    there is a limit to meaningful exchanges : when someone is clearly beyond the pale, there is little hope of taking him back (except, perhaps, in some TSR afterlife)
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    I would, but for some reason his arguments really GRATE on me.
    He's (unfortunately) all too typical of the kind of apologist we see a lot around here. His numerous posts boil down to: deny, deflect, discredit. They grate like mad on me too, but when you realise how utterly desperate he and his ilk are to protect and defend the image of Islam at all costs but can't provide any arguments, so have to resort to endless hysterical shrieks of 'dat's wayciss! dat's islamaphobic!", you realise that we're winning.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Because you have no clue whether or not this is "radical Islam" other than the fact that the reported perpetrator has a Middle-Eastern name.
    oh, so *now* you're prepared not to generalise based on these kind of things. how convenient! :lol: jesus christ.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    you're probably right

    there is a limit to meaningful exchanges : when someone is clearly beyond the pale, there is little hope of taking him back (except, perhaps, in some TSR afterlife)
    He's spent five pages throwing round the same hysterical accusations over and over without making any new points. Enough is enough, IMO. We should just ignore him and go back to the main topic of the thread: the revolting attack on a woman and children by a religious fanatic for wearing 'inappropriate' clothes.
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    He's (unfortunately) all too typical of the kind of apologist we see a lot around here. His numerous posts boil down to: deny, deflect, discredit. They grate like mad on me too, but when you realise how utterly desperate he and his ilk are to protect and defend the image of Islam at all costs but can't provide any arguments, so have to resort to endless hysterical shrieks of 'dat's wayciss! dat's islamaphobic!", you realise that we're winning.
    PRSOM

    The more time I spend on this website the more worried I become ... Sometimes it's nice to know others feel the same way.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    PRSOM

    The more time I spend on this website the more worried I become ... Sometimes it's nice to know others feel the same way.
    Agreed. Sometimes I read posts on Twitter/FB etc by SJWs and regressive leftists going out of their way to defend Islam, and wonder what the heck planet they're on. And they seem to be everywhere! But there are a good few of us around who counter them
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    the tsr racists do love to support each other in times of need
    I do believe I gave you the definition of racism a few pages back in the apparently futile hope you'd learn the meaning of the word.
 
 
 
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