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Ehhh... I'm kinda with the anti-Trump brigade on this one Watch

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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Why should all of us non plane hijackers be screened at airports? Because there is no magic solution to routing out and identifying would be hijackers.

    This happens in numerous circumstances - The minority ruin it for the majority. Is it fair? No - Is it reasonable yes
    Flawed example. Everyone is screened regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, religion etc. Furthermore it doesn't stop any innocent people from travelling.

    The proposed ban on Muslims targets one group and does actually stop billions of innocent people from being able to enter the country.
    Why limit it to Muslims?

    Let's have a bit of consistency.

    I dont have the time to address the second part but there have been numerous ideas put about. I might even argue that the illusion of recognising and dealing with the issues robustly is as important. People are sick of being condescended to by politicians, the media and "moderate" muslims about Islam

    It would be so refreshing and reassuring for a leader to talk about the reality of Islam and its problems instead of carefully reading from a sensitively worded script. It wouldnt magically make any problems disappear but it would make people a lot happier that they are not being led by a blind, appeasing coward who fails to understand the link between the two
    So in other words, you have no idea. If you have time to be on a student forum, you have time to answer the question.

    You're complaining about the left's and liberals response and citing that as a cause of far right extremism and Islamic terrorism, so please tell me what the response should be and how exactly this would solve either of those problems.

    Yes at times we can be a bit PC, but to make out that it's a cause of the problems is completely unfounded.

    Of course there are problems with Islam, and no one would say otherwise. But to propose punishing and banning ordinary, innocent Muslims, making them feel unwelcome creates the conditions which lead to young Muslims feeling isolated and separated which is music to the ears of the likes of ISIS.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You realise you're not being screened because you might hijack the plane? Getting into a planes cockpit in the western world is virtually impossible without inside help.
    Tomatoe Tomato. Desperate much?



    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I don't see how having to go through a metal detector is 'ruining' anything?
    You dont think Airport security has a negative effect on your experience?




    (Original post by Underscore__)
    That translates into 'I have no idea what the solution is'. What issues are you talking about specifically? You do realise 'moderate' Muslims are the overwhelming majority?
    Wow yes you got me! You win this one



    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I bet that wouldn't alienate people and exacerbate the problems, good plan.

    People are being alienated .. the majority non muslim populations are sick of living in terror, being blown up and being condescended too lying media and politicians

    Enjoy Trump and the Europes far right rising pal
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Tomatoe Tomato. Desperate much?
    Someone else actually made a much better point against this than me about how that's non-discriminatory unlike the plan to ban all Muslims.



    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    You dont think Airport security has a negative effect on your experience?

    None whatsoever, it just means I have to get up a little bit earlier when I fly. Besides even if aviation wasn't a terrorist target there'd still be security checks.



    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Wow yes you got me! You win this one

    You had enough time to type two paragraphs but not actually offer a solution, seems very suspicious.



    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    People are being alienated .. the majority non muslim populations are sick of living in terror, being blown up and being condescended too lying media and politicians

    Enjoy Trump and the Europes far right rising pal
    How do you alienate a large majority of the population? I think you need to pick a different word.

    Anyone who lives in terror of being blown up, in the UK, is an idiot. I don't know anyone who lives in terror of being killed by a bee or a dog yet both are more likely.

    Can you give an example of a condescending quote,that is also a lie, from a politician on the subject of Islam please.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Someone else actually made a much better point against this than me about how that's non-discriminatory unlike the plan to ban all Muslims.
    Sorry my friend, banning men from childrens parks is discriminatory... is it fair? No .. is it reasonable yes

    You seem to want a perfect solution, there isnt one like with many things. You must choose.






    (Original post by Underscore__)
    None whatsoever, it just means I have to get up a little bit earlier when I fly. Besides even if aviation wasn't a terrorist target there'd still be security checks.
    lol Thats great and i am happy for you but your are the 1% (See the theme yet?)





    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You had enough time to type two paragraphs but not actually offer a solution, seems very suspicious.
    Yes i dont have the will, time or capacity to type out a long in depth post at this moment. Suspicious of what??


    (Original post by Underscore__)
    How do you alienate a large majority of the population? I think you need to pick a different word.

    Anyone who lives in terror of being blown up, in the UK, is an idiot. I don't know anyone who lives in terror of being killed by a bee or a dog yet both are more likely.
    How would you react if you heard someone shout allahu ackbar in the street? (Try to answer honestly)

    Lets do a simple test to see if you believe what you say is true. Draw a picture of Mohammed, post it to your twitter and facebook followers (Ensuring your name and picture are there) Should be easy given nobody is in fear or silence

    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Can you give an example of a condescending quote,that is also a lie, from a politician on the subject of Islam please.
    "Islam is a religion of peace" (Every western leader)

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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Sorry my friend, banning men from childrens parks is discriminatory... is it fair? No .. is it reasonable yes

    You seem to want a perfect solution, there isnt one like with many things. You must choose.
    Your points are laughable. 'Men' aren't banned from children's parks, convicted sex offenders are. See the difference? People who have proven in the past they are capable and have the desire to do bad things, the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't fit this.

    The most ridiculous part of this suggestion (other than the fact it would never happen even if Trump wins) is the fact that it doesn't work at all. How do you know someone is a Muslim? What's to stop people lying?

    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    lol Thats great and i am happy for you but your are the 1% (See the theme yet?)
    So I take it you've conducted extensive research on this? Done some surveys?

    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Yes i dont have the will, time or capacity to type out a long in depth post at this moment. Suspicious of what??
    I'd agree you don't have the capacity. Suspicious that you too know there is no solution so instead of admitting defeat you claimed you couldn't be bothered.

    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    How would you react if you heard someone shout allahu ackbar in the street? (Try to answer honestly)
    Well if it was a suicide bomber the bomb probably would have gone off before I had a chance to really react but in all honesty I'd probably think it was some moron playing a stupid joke. You're also changing the situation. People in the UK don't experience that hence why on a daily basis they have no reason to live in terror of being blown up.

    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Lets do a simple test to see if you believe what you say is true. Draw a picture of Mohammed, post it to your twitter and facebook followers (Ensuring your name and picture are there) Should be easy given nobody is in fear or silence
    As far as memory serves I only have about two Muslims friends on Facebook and I don't use Twitter so I doubt there'd be much backlash. While we're on that topic I wonder how Christians would feel if I drew a mocking picture of Jesus...

    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    "Islam is a religion of peace" (Every western leader)

    And the vast majority of people who follow Islam are perfectly peaceful people so I don't see how that's a lie.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Your points are laughable. 'Men' aren't banned from children's parks, convicted sex offenders are. See the difference? People who have proven in the past they are capable and have the desire to do bad things, the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't fit this.

    The most ridiculous part of this suggestion (other than the fact it would never happen even if Trump wins) is the fact that it doesn't work at all. How do you know someone is a Muslim? What's to stop people lying?



    So I take it you've conducted extensive research on this? Done some surveys?



    I'd agree you don't have the capacity. Suspicious that you too know there is no solution so instead of admitting defeat you claimed you couldn't be bothered.



    Well if it was a suicide bomber the bomb probably would have gone off before I had a chance to really react but in all honesty I'd probably think it was some moron playing a stupid joke. You're also changing the situation. People in the UK don't experience that hence why on a daily basis they have no reason to live in terror of being blown up.



    As far as memory serves I only have about two Muslims friends on Facebook and I don't use Twitter so I doubt there'd be much backlash. While we're on that topic I wonder how Christians would feel if I drew a mocking picture of Jesus...



    And the vast majority of people who follow Islam are perfectly peaceful people so I don't see how that's a lie.


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    Enjoy trumps coronation little fella, i will be here to lick up your salty aplopetic confused tears
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Enjoy trumps coronation little fella, i will be here to lick up your salty aplopetic confused tears
    Haha run out of nonsensical arguments? Don't worry, I won't cry too much there's no way these ridiculous racist policies will ever come to fruition


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Haha run out of nonsensical arguments? Don't worry, I won't cry too much there's no way these ridiculous racist policies will ever come to fruition


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    I know a fruitless lost cause when i see one. There is nothing i could type in response to your last post that you would not churlishly dismiss
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I know a fruitless lost cause when i see one. There is nothing i could type in response to your last post that you would not churlishly dismiss
    I'm sorry but if you have time to make comment after comment on here then you have time to answer my earlier question.

    What should the left's response to Islamic terrorism be and how will this prevent Islamic terrorism and quell the rise of the far right?
    I'm not looking to trip you up, genuinely. I just want to know what your solution is.
    If we move closer to the far right, they become less extreme, not more.

    No one is saying there isn't an issue, but to propose banning all Muslims because they share a characteristic of a few terrorists really is fascistic.

    Your Airport security example is flawed as EVERYONE is checked, not just one race, religion or gender and that's not even a punishment as all innocent people are allowed through.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I know a fruitless lost cause when i see one. There is nothing i could type in response to your last post that you would not churlishly dismiss
    How can you expect someone to treat nonsense arguments with respect? You want me to be polite when you're arguing in favour of a policy to ban almost a quarter of the worlds population from entering a country based on the actions of a relatively tiny number of people? I suppose one of the drawbacks of democracy is we have to tolerate intolerance and bigotry.

    Your post reeks of 'I have nothing to say so I'll pretend there's another reason I'm removing myself from the debate'
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    This is my jam.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)

    And the vast majority of people who follow Islam are perfectly peaceful people so I don't see how that's a lie.


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    Funny how you guys always going on about making sure to make a distinction between Islam and its followers when it comes to criticising it. And yet, here you are, equating Islam with it's followers. Islam, as in the religious ideology, is not a peaceful religion. The Qur'an and the Hadiths contain huge amounts of violence, and calls to violence. The term 'religion of peace' is a neologism that was invented after 9/11 by politicians. Feel free to look it up. It's nothing more than a meaningless platitude.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Funny how you guys always going on about making sure to make a distinction between Islam and its followers when it comes to criticising it. And yet, here you are, equating Islam with it's followers. Islam, as in the religious ideology, is not a peaceful religion. The Qur'an and the Hadiths contain huge amounts of violence, and calls to violence. The term 'religion of peace' is a neologism that was invented after 9/11 by politicians. Feel free to look it up. It's nothing more than a meaningless platitude.
    I've never made that distinction. The Bible also contains a lot of violent verses and stories yet people don't go round condemning Christians. I don't really care where that phrase originates from, the simple fact is the overwhelming majority of Muslims are peaceful people yet some people have convinced themselves that's not the case


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I've never made that distinction. The Bible also contains a lot of violent verses and stories yet people don't go round condemning Christians. I don't really care where that phrase originates from, the simple fact is the overwhelming majority of Muslims are peaceful people yet some people have convinced themselves that's not the case


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    Urm, yes they do, myself included. The majority of Muslims want Sharia as the rule of the land. If you think that's peaceful, ok.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Funny how you guys always going on about making sure to make a distinction between Islam and its followers when it comes to criticising it. And yet, here you are, equating Islam with it's followers. Islam, as in the religious ideology, is not a peaceful religion. The Qur'an and the Hadiths contain huge amounts of violence, and calls to violence. The term 'religion of peace' is a neologism that was invented after 9/11 by politicians. Feel free to look it up. It's nothing more than a meaningless platitude.
    As does the Bible.
    Yet I don't think all Christians are evil.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    As does the Bible.
    Yet I don't think all Christians are evil.
    Whataboutery.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Whataboutery.
    It's not whataboutery at all. It's asking for consistency.
    Islam is not a religion of peace, no religion is. That doesn't mean innocent Muslims and Christians should be held culpable, responsible or punishable for the actions of a tiny amount of people.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It's not whataboutery at all. It's asking for consistency.
    Islam is not a religion of peace, no religion is. That doesn't mean innocent Muslims and Christians should be held culpable, responsible or punishable for the actions of a tiny amount of people.
    Why do you assume that I don't dislike fundamentalist Christians as well?
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Why do you assume that I don't dislike fundamentalist Christians as well?
    Because 99.99% of your posts seem to be about Muslims.

    Banning all Muslims for the actions of a tiny minority of people would be like banning all Americans because a tiny minority commit murder.
    Punishing innocent people for the actions of others, just because they happen to share a characteristic with them really is fascism.

    You seem to hold every Muslim responsible for the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists and it's an absurd and unhelpful position. When a Christian fundamentalist shoots up an abortion clinic we don't hold every Christian responsible and nor should we.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Because 99.99% of your posts seem to be about Muslims.
    Fundamentalist Christians are not a particularly great threat to Western society. They don't murder people who mock their religion. TV Networks aren't frightened to broadcast anything that goes against how they feel their prophet should be portrayed.
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Banning all Muslims for the actions of a tiny minority of people would be like banning all Americans because a tiny minority commit murder. Punishing innocent people for the actions of others, just because they happen to share a characteristic with them really is fascism.
    I don't think all Muslims should be banned. Banning people from a country isn't punishment, as allowing people in is a privilege.
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You seem to hold every Muslim responsible for the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists and it's an absurd and unhelpful position.
    No I don't. I just criticise the majority of Muslims who think homosexuality should be illegal and think Sharia should be the rule of the land. I am aware that those people should be allowed to believe whatever they want, but that doesn't change the fact that I dislike them and will continue to criticise them.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    When a Christian fundamentalist shoots up an abortion clinic we don't hold every Christian responsible and nor should we.
    Perhaps we should criticise the people who support killing people in abortion clinics, though.
 
 
 
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