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Should trans people be allowed to receive free reassignment surgery on the NHS? Watch

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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Are you a mental health professional? If not, then how can you make the claim that gender dysphoria cannot be cured by surgery?

    Also, wanting gender reassignment surgery is not a "symptom" of gender dysphoria. Is wanting to be happy a symptom of depression? No. Constantly being sad is.

    You're making a ridiculous comparison to schizophrenia. To even compare transgenderism with wanting to be a mouse shows you don't have a clue what you're on about.
    Are you a mental health professional? If not, then how can you make the claim that gender dysphoria can be cured by surgery?

    Well, a symptom of gender dysphoria is an extreme dislike of your genitalia, therefore some people would decide that they would like surgery.

    I don't see how they can't be compared. We're talking about an optional procedure designed to improve quality of life that carries no health benefits. How is it not comparable to wanting to be an animal or wanting a boob job?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    no health benefits
    mental health doesn't count then?
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Having cancer may not be a choice but having chemotherapy is.


    Being cis may not be a choice but being transphobic is.
    Opting to not have chemotherapy after a cancer diagnosis is asking for a death sentence. There is no other way to cure cancer.

    There are other ways to cope with gender dysphoria. Choosing not to have gender reassignment will not kill you.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Are you a mental health professional? If not, then how can you make the claim that gender dysphoria can be cured by surgery?

    Well, a symptom of gender dysphoria is an extreme dislike of your genitalia, therefore some people would decide that they would like surgery.

    I don't see how they can't be compared. We're talking about an optional procedure designed to improve quality of life that carries no health benefits. How is it not comparable to wanting to be an animal or wanting a boob job?
    From the NHS website:

    "Treatment for gender dysphoria aims to help reduce or remove the distressing feelings of a mismatch between biological sex and gender identity.

    Many trans people have treatment to change their body permanently, so they're more consistent with their gender identity, and the vast majority are satisfied with the eventual results."

    http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-...roduction.aspx

    Do you hate the NHS/basic facts/research and statistics, or are you just stupid? Also, if you can direct me to the NHS page on the mental health condition where someone wants to be an animal, I'll gladly entertain your ignorance.
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    A very good question, and actually also a debated point.
    If we're considering the same level of negative outcomes, and no alternative counselling were appropriate or indicated by evidence - I wonder whether this mental distress would warrant surgery.
    Funnily enough, boob jobs are offered for free in rare instances
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    From the NHS website:

    "Treatment for gender dysphoria aims to help reduce or remove the distressing feelings of a mismatch between biological sex and gender identity.

    Many trans people have treatment to change their body permanently, so they're more consistent with their gender identity, and the vast majority are satisfied with the eventual results."

    http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-...roduction.aspx

    Do you hate the NHS/basic facts/research and statistics, or are you just stupid? Also, if you can direct me to the NHS page on the mental health condition where someone wants to be an animal, I'll gladly entertain your ignorance.
    I don't know what point you're trying to make with that. You presented nothing that I have argued against.

    Why are you throwing insults? So unnecessary.

    It doesn't have to recognised as a mental health condition, like previously said, it could be a symptom of an existing condition. Either way, why can't I have free surgery to look like a cat if it depresses me to stay human?
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Please expand-

    If surgery reduces negative outcomes for trans people, is it still cosmetic?

    By negative outcomes, I mean mental illnesses such as suicide and eating disorders.

    We accept that being trans is not a choice, yes? So what treatment do we offer?
    Yes. It's still cosmetic surgery.

    Yes, so offer them better mental health care. Help them to feel happy with the way they are and teach them to love themselves as their gender.

    I was born a girl but I feel like no gender at all, it used to make me feel pretty depressed because it felt like being in the wrong body. But you know what, being happy has nothing to do with your gender. Things don't always go your way and that's just something you've got to deal with, your gender is no different. I'm an asexual, aspergic, agender woman, a total freak of nature! But most importantly, I'm me. Regardless of what gender I am, I will always be me. Everything else is just a silly label people pinned on me, I don't give a sh*t about any of it anymore because none of it matters. I'm happy with the way I am because no matter what body I'm in I will always be me and nothing will change that (apart from brain damage). The moment I stopped putting myself in those meaningless little boxes all the depression went away. That's what trans people need to do, stop obsessing over what they're not and instead focus on what they are.

    "Those who are lust-infatuated fall back into the swirling current (of samsara) like a spider on its self-spun web. This, too, the wise cut off. Without any longing, they abandon all suffering and renounce the world." - Dhammapada verse 347
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    The cost for male to female reassignment is $7,000 to $24,000. The cost for female to male reassignment can exceed $50,000.

    "Since 2000 a total of 853 men have gone under the knife to become women while in the same time span 12 women have had an operation to become a man." [article was written in 2010]
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...s-triples.html


    The total cost of gender reassignments is ridiculous compared to cancer treatments.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    The cost for male to female reassignment is $7,000 to $24,000. The cost for female to male reassignment can exceed $50,000.

    "Since 2000 a total of 853 men have gone under the knife to become women while in the same time span 12 women have had an operation to become a man." [article was written in 2010]
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...s-triples.html


    The total cost of gender reassignments is ridiculous compared to cancer treatments.
    Some of which the NHS doesn't offer because of the cost

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ed-on-NHS.html
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I don't know what point you're trying to make with that. You presented nothing that I have argued against.

    Why are you throwing insults? So unnecessary.

    It doesn't have to recognised as a mental health condition, like previously said, it could be a symptom of an existing condition. Either way, why can't I have free surgery to look like a cat if it depresses me to stay human?
    I presented medical evidence that gender reassignment surgery is effective for treating gender dysphoria, and you've presented no medical evidence to support your claim that it doesn't do anything. I'm still waiting.

    I'm calling you stupid because you seem to think there's no difference between gender and species. Aren't you supposed to be doing psychology or something at university? Did you know that transspecies-ism is not a symptom of any condition?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    How is it childish? I could say I want to live as a cat because it would make me feel more secure in myself and would make me happier, why shouldn't my surgery be free?
    You could say that, and if you were serious enough you could probably get some psychiatric help. In the case of gender dysphoria however, the brain itself is physically the other gender. A transman is a man as far as his brain is concerned, whatever his gonadal tissue reports. A "catkin" person's brain is a human brain, no matter how fervently and earnestly they might perhaps wish otherwise.

    The comparison is childish until a) you show me a feline brain in a human body and b) you demonstrate the ineffectiveness of other, non-surgical methods of treatment of what is obviously a mental health issue.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Some of which the NHS doesn't offer because of the cost

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ed-on-NHS.html
    Gender reassignments cost £2 million a year at most. It has no effect on cancer medication purchases.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Gender reassignments cost £2 million a year at most. It has no effect on cancer medication purchases.
    They could also donate £2 million to me, that would also have negligible effect on cancer medication purchases.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    You could say that, and if you were serious enough you could probably get some psychiatric help. In the case of gender dysphoria however, the brain itself is physically the other gender. A transman is a man as far as his brain is concerned, whatever his gonadal tissue reports. A "catkin" person's brain is a human brain, no matter how fervently and earnestly they might perhaps wish otherwise.

    The comparison is childish until a) you show me a feline brain in a human body and b) you demonstrate the ineffectiveness of other, non-surgical methods of treatment of what is obviously a mental health issue.
    You know, that's exactly what people used to say about trans people.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I presented medical evidence that gender reassignment surgery is effective for treating gender dysphoria, and you've presented no medical evidence to support your claim that it doesn't do anything. I'm still waiting.

    I'm calling you stupid because you seem to think there's no difference between gender and species. Aren't you supposed to be doing psychology or something at university? Did you know that transspecies-ism is not a symptom of any condition?
    I never said it doesn't do anything. Of course it is blunt to make a person feel happier, but I don't believe it alone cures gender dysphoria. The information you linked didn't show a follow up of those people who've had the surgery.

    Right because you know every single mental health sufferer and know exactly what they would like? Mine was just an example but you seem to think you know it all. There have been people who've chosen to alter their features to look like an animal. I don't know if they're mentally ill but why does that matter? If it makes them happy and affects nobody but them, why shouldn't they be funded?

    I don't know why every time I have a discussion with you, you always seem to bring up this whole psychology thing. I don't study it, not that it has anything to do with this.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    You know, that's exactly what people used to say about trans people.
    We've known about both conditions for a while now. I'll let the medical professionals and the government decide the appropriate treatments and whether or not they should be available for free on the NHS instead of a random Buddhist preaching about contentment on the basis of their own anecdotal testimony. If species dysphoria really is comparable to gender dysphoria, I'm sure they would've discovered non-human brains in human bodies
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    It's not a civil rights or a 'tolerance' issue. It's a mental health issue. If we treat people who are depressed or anxious at the public expense, we must also treat people who have a deep-seated loathing of their bodies. Sometimes it may be that the best treatment is to give them the surgery.
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    Any surgery that does not serve to ensure a persons physical health should obviously not be covered by any national medical insurance.

    No matter what zippyRN has been fed by tumblr SJW's, surgery should be reserved for physical health issues. If we allow surgery to ensure mental health, then why should the NHS not also cover breast surgery and nose jobs?

    Also, there is hardly a group of people on this very planet that is more left wing and liberal than students. So if you think that the oppinions of TSRians are not left wing enough, then that is highly worrying.
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Conflating being transgender with having an illness, how transphobic.
    Multiple people in this thread have talked about cancer as a comparison for NHS funding. I was continuing the comparison. That funding cancer treatment is being used as a reason why trans people shouldn't be allowed hormones and surgeries on the NHS but people with cancer still CHOOSE to receive treatment. Also, many people say that other cosmetic surgeries aren't on the NHS but if a cis woman has a mastectomy due to breast cancer she's offered implants. Sometimes the NHS will even do it all in the same operation.

    Also, I'm trans so if you're cis then you have absolutely no business telling me what is and isn't transphobic.

    Oh, and as someone who is both mentally ill and trans: most of the rhetoric based on whether or not being trans is a mental illness is incredibly saneist because it relies on the idea that it's bad and wrong to be mentally ill and that mentally ill people shouldn't be able to make decisions about our bodies and our lives because we're worth less than people who don't have mental illnesses and that **** needs to stop.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Opting to not have chemotherapy after a cancer diagnosis is asking for a death sentence. There is no other way to cure cancer.

    There are other ways to cope with gender dysphoria. Choosing not to have gender reassignment will not kill you.
    Except that people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES because they are unable to transition.
 
 
 
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