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S20 – Statement of Intent from the Secretary of State for Education watch

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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I think that may have come before the last Great Repeal Act, or I cannot remember a bill making everything metric coming in recent times.
    You might be right, I'll have to check.
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    Inspecting schools for religious extremism is a good idea.
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    Can I ask if the SoS plans to reply to my earlier post?
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Can I ask if the SoS plans to reply to my earlier post?
    Not sure whether it was said publicly or just in the sub, the Rt. Hon. Gentleman is currently engaged, but should return tomorrow; going and seeing the Minister Prime and Mr Whiskers on the ISS.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Not sure whether it was said publicly or just in the sub, the Rt. Hon. Gentleman is currently engaged, but should return tomorrow; going and seeing the Minister Prime and Mr Whiskers on the ISS.

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    Thank you for the update Jammy
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    Some good measures for the Government to take, however there are some concerns I wish to raise:
    • If governmental spending on education is to increase, then surely it should be diverted to state schools? Grammar schools clearly run in your blood (being a Tory etc. etc.), but state school students - particularly in more disadvantaged areas - are failing their exams and thus are costing more money in resits. Maybe we could consider more grammar schools when 16-year-olds can spell, yes?
    • Forcing children to run a mile at school each day? I'm assuming this replaces PE lessons? No? So the three Rs are going to suffer for your Korean-style education system? Um, OK then...
    • I have a good idea. Maybe instead of monitoring faith schools we could maybe... um... well... abolish faith schools? We've all seen what religion does to people.
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    (Original post by Emily Porter)
    Some good measures for the Government to take, however there are some concerns I wish to raise:
    • If governmental spending on education is to increase, then surely it should be diverted to state schools? Grammar schools clearly run in your blood (being a Tory etc. etc.), but state school students - particularly in more disadvantaged areas - are failing their exams and thus are costing more money in resits. Maybe we could consider more grammar schools when 16-year-olds can spell, yes?
    • Forcing children to run a mile at school each day? I'm assuming this replaces PE lessons? No? So the three Rs are going to suffer for your Korean-style education system? Um, OK then...
    • I have a good idea. Maybe instead of monitoring faith schools we could maybe... um... well... abolish faith schools? We've all seen what religion does to people.
    Why the **** do so many of you think grammars aren't state?!

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Why the **** do so many of you think grammars aren't state?!

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    She probably meant state comprehensive schools.
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    (Original post by SoggyCabbages)
    She probably meant state comprehensive schools.
    Which shouldn't be a thing in the first place. The biggest criticism from me is not properly bringing back tripartite

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    (Original post by Emily Porter)
    Some good measures for the Government to take, however there are some concerns I wish to raise:
    • If governmental spending on education is to increase, then surely it should be diverted to state schools? Grammar schools clearly run in your blood (being a Tory etc. etc.), but state school students - particularly in more disadvantaged areas - are failing their exams and thus are costing more money in resits. Maybe we could consider more grammar schools when 16-year-olds can spell, yes?
    • Forcing children to run a mile at school each day? I'm assuming this replaces PE lessons? No? So the three Rs are going to suffer for your Korean-style education system? Um, OK then...
    • I have a good idea. Maybe instead of monitoring faith schools we could maybe... um... well... abolish faith schools? We've all seen what religion does to people.
    Not all the money is going to grammar schools, and by providing grammar schools, other state schools should be able to help those who need it more, more directly, and hopefully in slightly smaller class sizes.

    It will not necessarily replace PE lessons, and we need to try and make sure children are fit and healthy to relieve pressure on obesity when they grow up. I actually would've loved to be forced to run a mile a day, as the benefits now would be great for me!

    Haha, maybe later, but for now, increased monitoring of them will happen. If that doesn't help, then perhaps further intervention can happen.
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    Having heard new evidence on grammar schools (http://www.economist.com/news/britai...mmatical-error), I am now opposed to this SoI. Grammar schools do not improve net educational attainment in the country, and merely serve to damage social mobility, since a pupil's background has served to inform their education quality too much already by 11 for the policy to not effectively act as a subsidy to the middle class:

    "The gaming of the system by well-off parents can be seen in the impact on the market for private education. The opening of a new grammar school is associated with a decline in demand for the best local private secondary schools and an increase in demand for private primaries, says Ms Allen. Many parents also pay for tutoring to help their children pass the grammar’s entrance exam, in the hope of moving the financial burden of secondary education onto the state. This gives richer children an edge. Even looking only at those pupils who get good grades aged 11, 40% of those on free school meals get into a grammar school, compared with 67% of the rest."
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Having heard new evidence on grammar schools (http://www.economist.com/news/britai...mmatical-error), I am now opposed to this SoI. Grammar schools do not improve net educational attainment in the country, and merely serve to damage social mobility, since a pupil's background has served to inform their education quality too much already by 11 for the policy to not effectively act as a subsidy to the middle class:

    "The gaming of the system by well-off parents can be seen in the impact on the market for private education. The opening of a new grammar school is associated with a decline in demand for the best local private secondary schools and an increase in demand for private primaries, says Ms Allen. Many parents also pay for tutoring to help their children pass the grammar’s entrance exam, in the hope of moving the financial burden of secondary education onto the state. This gives richer children an edge. Even looking only at those pupils who get good grades aged 11, 40% of those on free school meals get into a grammar school, compared with 67% of the rest."
    Which is not necessarily an intrinsic problem with Grammars but government policy, for instance if you only have one or two and put them in wealthy areas with high private school attendance then no **** you'll get that result.

    But also how much comes down to wealthier families straight up being more willing to push their children rather than just sitting with a fag in one hand, a cam of special brew in the other watching Big Brother?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Which is not necessarily an intrinsic problem with Grammars but government policy, for instance if you only have one or two and put them in wealthy areas with high private school attendance then no **** you'll get that result.

    But also how much comes down to wealthier families straight up being more willing to push their children rather than just sitting with a fag in one hand, a cam of special brew in the other watching Big Brother?

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    There is a significant element of the shortfall which comes from the fact that kids born to poor families are substantially less likely to receive the necessary support and encouragement in their early years. However, this is a fact, rather than something which can be affected by government policy, and we should seek to mitigate the negative effects of this. There is also an element which comes from being able to move into areas with good primaries, being able to afford private primary schools, and being able to afford private tuition. We should not punish children either for their parents' misfortunes, or their parents' inadequacies.

    Strong school results are also a significant driver of which areas are wealthy, and even to the extent that grammars are placed in existing wealthy areas, imagine the complaints you'd get from the middle class if you placed the good school in the middle of a rough neighbourhood. It's not politically possible.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    There is a significant element of the shortfall which comes from the fact that kids born to poor families are substantially less likely to receive the necessary support and encouragement in their early years. However, this is a fact, rather than something which can be affected by government policy, and we should seek to mitigate the negative effects of this. There is also an element which comes from being able to move into areas with good primaries, being able to afford private primary schools, and being able to afford private tuition. We should not punish children either for their parents' misfortunes, or their parents' inadequacies.

    Strong school results are also a significant driver of which areas are wealthy, and even to the extent that grammars are placed in existing wealthy areas, imagine the complaints you'd get from the middle class if you placed the good school in the middle of a rough neighbourhood. It's not politically possible.
    "Greater access to private tuition"

    Regardless, if the attitude of the parents is "children's education, meh" there is little the state can do short of taking Aph's extreme approach of family is pointless, let the state be mother and father. Further you don't exclusively need Grammars in rough areas, you need to balance them such that the wealthier can have access without inhibiting the actually capable poorer students. Or alternatively you do detailed research into the effect of being from a porter background on standardised testing vs pure intellectual potential, measured via among other things IQ, and add, in essence, means tested skews to entry testing, which would certainly be more economically viable than adding smaller institutions in the run down parts of town.

    But let's not pretend they can only be in established middle class areas (at least at the time of establishment), there are multiple solutions. The less economically viable multiple smaller institutions, or the more viable compromise position of being in higher working class or new middle class areas, like a lot of good schools, just to name two. It has to be remembered of course that in larger settlements established middle class tends to be suburbs or outright rural, and the private institutions are likely in new middle class areas rather than established.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    "Greater access to private tuition"

    Regardless, if the attitude of the parents is "children's education, meh" there is little the state can do short of taking Aph's extreme approach of family is pointless, let the state be mother and father. Further you don't exclusively need Grammars in rough areas, you need to balance them such that the wealthier can have access without inhibiting the actually capable poorer students. Or alternatively you do detailed research into the effect of being from a porter background on standardised testing vs pure intellectual potential, measured via among other things IQ, and add, in essence, means tested skews to entry testing, which would certainly be more economically viable than adding smaller institutions in the run down parts of town.

    But let's not pretend they can only be in established middle class areas (at least at the time of establishment), there are multiple solutions. The less economically viable multiple smaller institutions, or the more viable compromise position of being in higher working class or new middle class areas, like a lot of good schools, just to name two. It has to be remembered of course that in larger settlements established middle class tends to be suburbs or outright rural, and the private institutions are likely in new middle class areas rather than established.

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    I mean, the fact that you think that we need to test to find out birth-level potential across poor and rich families is pretty silly tbh, it's just obviously the same. Any large-scale difference in educational attainment across income groups is therefore evidence of systematic marginalisation.

    Even the free market teaches us this. If the poor weren't institutionally oppressed in education, private schools would not exist as they would be charging for a service of the same quality as one that could be received for free.
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    This statement of intent is in cessation.
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    The Leader of the Opposition has requested that this be sent to vote.

    Division! Clear the lobbies!
 
 
 
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