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Who is a Jew?

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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Assuming you're referring to Secular Jews, then yes of course. Secular Jews often celebrate Jewish festivals like Hunnukah and Yom Kippur, just like non-Christians celebrate Christmas.
    I'm more referring to those who no longer have societal affiliation with the Jewish religion. You simply specified "any Jewish lineage", and that could only be great (great, great etc.) grandparents. Why should they still be associated with Judaism?
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    I'm more referring to those who no longer have affiliation with the Jewish religion. You simply specified "any Jewish lineage", and that could only be great (great, great etc.) grandparents. Why should they still be associated with Judaism?
    Not Judaism, but with the Jewish people. But in my opinion after a certain number of generations it's no longer relevant really because it goes so far back it will have been forgotten about. That goes for any ethnicity.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    So if someone was a black african, but believed in and observed every part of judaism, would you call them a jew?
    Yes, but the Israeli government sterilised them. Seriously, look it up.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    And for the record, I don't 'just care about my DNA', I also take part in Jewish religious festivals such as Hunnukah and strongly identify with the Jewish people.
    And at the same time you are saying that there is no Jewish people.
    (Original post by jambojim97)
    and there is no single 'Jewish people'.
    Jewish people in quotes. Great.
    You insist that there is no definition of Jews. How you know that your father is Jewish?
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    (Original post by admonit)
    And at the same time you are saying that there is no Jewish people.
    Jewish people in quotes. Great.
    You insist that there is no definition of Jews. How you know that your father is Jewish?
    When I said there is no single Jewish people, I meant that there are different ethnic subgroups, with the most common being the Ashkenazi Jews. I was also drawing upon the fact that (as I have said time and time and time and time again and again and again) different denominations of Judaism have different 'rules'.

    I know that my father is Jewish because all of his family originated from Jewish communities. Although he had a secular upbringing, he observed many Jewish traditions and festivals. His family spoke Yiddish. My grandmother's family were fleeing persecution from Nazi Germany.

    EDIT: ALSO, I took a DNA test and approximately half of my ethnicity estimate came up as 'European Jewish'. If that doesn't prove that being Jewish goes beyond religion then I don't know what does...

    Next question...
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    Mistake
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    (Original post by Therec00)
    Yes, but the Israeli government sterilised them. Seriously, look it up.
    I'm no fan of Israel, but in the name of rationality and reason, birth control =/= sterilization.

    'Look it up' is not a valid source.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    The point of this thread was to show that there is no objective definition of who is Jewish, and that Jewishness can be defined by religion, culture and ethnic background. I don't see how that's unclear.
    So there's no objective definition and Jewishness can be defined by culture. I don't eat pork, can I identify as Jewish?

    I'm still not sure how this is different in the slightest from any other group and why you felt it needed singling out.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    So there's no objective definition and Jewishness can be defined by culture. I don't eat pork, can I identify as Jewish?

    I'm still not sure how this is different in the slightest from any other group and why you felt it needed singling out.
    Jewishness is a combination of different things, not just one thing.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Jewishness is a combination of different things, not just one thing.
    As are many other groups. So why do you need to say about being Jewish? If you feel you are or have heritage saying you are then you are. It applies to everything.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    I'm no fan of Israel, but in the name of rationality and reason, birth control =/= sterilization.

    'Look it up' is not a valid source.
    It's the motive that's the problem, not the way they did it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ethopian-women
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    As are many other groups. So why do you need to say about being Jewish? If you feel you are or have heritage saying you are then you are. It applies to everything.
    The original post was intended to explain that there is more than one definition of Jewishness. Then we went off on a tangent when you denied that Jewishness has any bearing other than Halackic law. And here we are.
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    (Original post by Therec00)
    It's the motive that's the problem, not the way they did it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ethopian-women
    As much as I hate the Israeli government and their racist practices, birth control is not sterlisation because it is not permanent. If these Ethiopian-Israeli women were to be sterlised, they would have had their sexual organs 'modified'....
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    The original post was intended to explain that there is more than one definition of Jewishness. Then we went off on a tangent when you denied that Jewishness has any bearing other than Halackic law. And here we are.
    Oh dear lord I give up with you. Enjoy your "Jewishness".
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Oh dear lord I give up with you. Enjoy your "Jewishness".
    Thanks, enjoy your "Goyimness"...
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Thanks, enjoy your "Goyimness"...
    Not sure why you make assumptions about strangers on the internet, but w/e
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Connected to Judaism, but not necessarily adhering to Judaism.


    There is no objective definition of who is religiously Jewish, as different denominations of Judaism have different definitions and opinions. In terms of who is ETHNICALLY Jewish, that depends on ancestry and is rooted in science and nothing will ever change that.



    All your responses to my previous post have been stupid, but this has to be number 1. It quite clearly shows that there is no objective definition of who is and who isn't Jewish, and there is no single 'Jewish people'.



    Ethnically, I am half Ashkenazi Jewish - this is a scientific fact and has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. I also have cultural ties to Jewish tradition. I was not trying to pretend I am 'fully Jewish' - just pointing out that there are such things as half-Jews.

    Contrary to your borderline racist Israeli Zionist worldview based upon Orthodox Judaism, there is no clear definition of who is Jewish.


    course there is a Yehudi- this is an individual who is born of a Yehudiah- female jew or one that has gone through the process of Giyur. At best some religious jews may see as you as Zera Yisrael- gaving some sort of Kesher- quasi connection with the jewish people because you have a jewish dad and try and persuade you to convert you. Me personally the idea is bs but anyway you will still be seen as a non-jew with a jewish dad not jewish
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    (Original post by Matthew12)
    [/b]

    course there is a Yehudi- this is an individual who is born of a Yehudiah- female jew or one that has gone through the process of Giyur. At best some religious jews may see as you as Zera Yisrael- gaving some sort of Kesher- quasi connection with the jewish people because you have a jewish dad and try and persuade you to convert you. Me personally the idea is bs but anyway you will still be seen as a non-jew with a jewish dad not jewish
    Not universally true - even when applied exclusively to the Jewish people. As I have said in previous posts on this thread, different denominations of Judaism have different views as to who is automatically Jewish in a religious sense.

    In terms of Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, you are correct. To them, I am little more than a gentile with a Jewish father. However, Reformist, Ethiopian and Lemba Judaism see me as Jewish. Reformist Judaism defines a Jew as the child of a Jewish parent. In complete contrast to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, Ethiopian Judaism (Heymanot) and Karaite Judaism define a Jew as the child of a Jewish father - hence they are patralinneal.

    Even so, these are all obsolete value-based judgements.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    i have noticed of late that there seems to be a lot of confusion around tsr regarding the definition of ‘jewish.’ many people still think that being jewish is simply a matter of religious observance or religious inheritance from the mother. The truth is that it is much more complex.firstly, ask yourself, if it was just a matter of religion, then surely all the holocaust victims would have just converted to christianity. The jews are an ethnic group – an ethnicity. Just like africans, caucasians, south asians, kurds, aboriginals &c. In fact, there are many different ethnic groups associated with judaism – the most common of which are the ashkenazi jews.

    The ashkenazi jews originate from a distinct group of jews settling in the roman empire and originating from ancient israel. Ashkenazi jews are a distinct, homogenous ethnic group who, due show distinct ethnic markers not found in the general population of europe. The sephardic jews are another european jewish sub-group who settled in spain, although they are less well known.

    They share these distinct ethnic markers regardless of where they were located in europe. Like sephardic and mizrhazi jews (less common), they branched off from the ‘original’ jews of ancient israel around 2500 years ago when they settled in the roman empire. They originated from the middle east (ancient israel). When i tell people i am half-jewish (father’s side) they respond with statements such as “you can’t be half a religion” and “you are only jewish from your mother’s side”. In a religious sense, they are correct: You cannot really adhere to half a religion. Also, by talmudic law, having an automatic label of jewish religion is passed on from the mother’s side. However, from the perspective of genes and ethnicity, half of my ancestry consists of previously isolated and largely homogenous jewish communities originally from the middle east, while the other half is of the general british population.

    I took an ancestry.co.uk dna test, and whaddayaknow, around half of my ancestry was classed as ‘european jewish’.the term ‘secular jew’ means that one is ethnically and perhaps culturally jewish, but does not practice judaism (practicing jew). Of course, one can also be defined as jewish if they convert and adopt the religious and cultural customs associated with the jewish people.hopefully this clears things up. Predictably, there may be some neo nazi/fascist/anti-semitic responses, but hey ho, this is the internet.

    And if anyone’s interested: I do not particularly support israel, i am not circumcised, my family do not own any banks or media institutions, i am not a revolutionary communist, i am not a greedy capitalist, i do not have a big nose, i am not part of the conspiracy, and i am british by nationality, cultural values an in part by ethnicity.

    Regards,
    (((jambojim97)))

    yid army ftw!!!!!!!!!!11111
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    (Original post by ilovejews)
    yid army ftw!!!!!!!!!!11111
    nah m8
 
 
 
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