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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    So if you have a hateful Muslim living in western society, their hateful feelings can attract them to extremist groups like ISIS -
    So, why do you think that they are attracted to ISIS, rather than International Marxism, or Fascism, or White Supremacist groups? What is it about ISIS that fits with their hate of the west?

    which legitimise these feelings into anti-Western political hatred. This causes them to do the attacks, not a heart-filled desire to help Islam.
    You are just making this up. When every attack and every statement is legitimised through Islamic doctrine, it is baffling as to why you simply ignore all that and continue to claim that all Islamist extremists are only motivated by politics.

    The original point was that the Bataclan attackers had a political motivation. They vocalised it, witnesses reported that they said it was "revenge for airstrikes in Syria"
    If they were carried out as a reprisal for attacks against ISIS, and ISIS are entirely and explicitly an Islamist organistation, then the Bataclan attack was motivated by the defence of Islam. QED.

    And once again, I'm not saying it has nothing to do with Islam. I'm saying Islam is a factor, but a negligible one, one not worth attacking - because whinging about Islam being barbaric evidently is not helping whatsoever.
    And you blubbering that Islamist extremism has nothing to do with Islam has? Who knew?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    I support western intervention to eradicate terrorist groups, but it would be more ideal if the local Arab powers would do their part. The whole idea of a "West vs Terrorism" is a war that will never be won.
    I agree, the local Arab states could do allot more, though this being the middle east, their competence and will to fight seems stifled with rivalry with Iran, disagreements over Syria, sectarian hatred and domestic public opinion among obstacles to deeper involvement. This leaves the Kurdish rebel groups and Shia militias being more of the competent groups but the latter group is suspect to further contribute to secatarianism. I can't imagine the local gulf Arab states digging deeper, but with Turkey's intervention, hopefully ISIS deteriorates much quicker.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Islam is not the initial thing which causes them to become hateful. Its just that radical interpretations of Islam are the veils behind which they hide to feel not so bad about themselves. To actually believe that these people want to help Islam is to fall for their lies and to legitimise their actions.
    How do you explain the many young schoolgirls, radicalised and persuaded to go to the caliphate? They seem to have been pretty sheltered and innocent before their radicalisation.

    Or Tashfeen Malik and Syed Rizwan Farook who were non-political, law-abiding sufis from a wealthy background prior to radicalisation. They don't fit your narrative very well, do they? There are many more.

    The key is coming to believe the Koran is literally true, which they do, as it tells them Moslems must. Everything springs from this; even previously innocent people become vicious killers in the quest to follow Mohammed and spread Islam in the seventh century model.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    How do you explain the many oung schoolgirls, radicalised and persuaded to go to the caliphate? They seem to have been pretty sheltered and innocent before their radicalisation?

    Or Tashfeen Malik and Syed Rizwan Farook who were non-political, law-abiding sufis from a wealthy background prior to radicalisation. They don't fit your narrative very well, do they? There are many more.

    The key is coming to believe the Koran is literally true, which they do, as it tells them Moslems must. Everything springs from this; even previously innocent people become vicious killers in the quest to follow Mohammed and spread Islam in the seventh century model.
    Sigh... Every single terrorist attacker since the Sydney Siege has had something go wrong in their lives.

    All of these are terrorist attacks related to ISIS within the last 2 years:

    Man Haron Monis - was due to be charged/convicted for sexual assaults
    Omar Abdel Hamid El-Hussein - parents divorced at an early age, and became involved in violent gangs, imprisoned twice for having weapons
    Yassine Labidi and Saber Khachnaoui - their home country, Tunisia, became war torn and both perpetrators experienced family losses
    Cherif and Said Kouachi - mother committed suicide, orphaned and became involved with gangs and crime, arrested several times
    Rezgui - radicalised by the Tunisian civil war due to family losses
    Yassin Salhi - got fired from his job and had suffered from Muslim discrimination in his workplace
    Ayoub El Khazzani - homeless and had been involved in crime / petty theft
    Virtually all of the Paris attackers - had been involved in petty crime / gang violence from a young age
    Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik - suffered abuse in his home from a young age, also suffered anti-Muslim discrimination

    And the list goes on. Check them yourself.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Take a quick skim-read of any case study of any of these terrorists who attack westerners, and you'll see that EVERY SINGLE TIME their lives go south because of a traumatic event or series of events, they develop hateful feelings and these hateful feelings are legitimised by terrorist groups like ISIS.

    Islam is not the initial thing which causes them to become hateful. Its just that radical interpretations of Islam are the veils behind which they hide to feel not so bad about themselves. To actually believe that these people want to help Islam is to fall for their lies and to legitimise their actions.
    Now you are just lying. In the vast majority of these cases, Islamist radicalisation is demonstrably what separates them from every other peson who has issues, who does not express his frustration by killing dozens of people (and coincidenntally, are not Muslims).

    Basically, we have two groups of preople here.
    1. Those who have issues with western society, and/or have gone through personal trauma.
    2. Those who have issues with western society, and/or have gone through personal trauma, and are also Muslims.

    One of these groups provides all of the world's Islamist extremists. Can you guess which one?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Sigh... Every single terrorist attacker since the Sydney Siege has had something go wrong in their lives.

    All of these are terrorist attacks related to ISIS within the last 2 years:

    Man Haron Monis - was due to be charged/convicted for sexual assaults
    Omar Abdel Hamid El-Hussein - parents divorced at an early age, and became involved in violent gangs, imprisoned twice for having weapons
    Yassine Labidi and Saber Khachnaoui - their home country, Tunisia, became war torn and both perpetrators experienced family losses
    Cherif and Said Kouachi - mother committed suicide, orphaned and became involved with gangs and crime, arrested several times
    Rezgui - radicalised by the Tunisian civil war due to family losses
    Yassin Salhi - got fired from his job and had suffered from Muslim discrimination in his workplace
    Ayoub El Khazzani - homeless and had been involved in crime / petty theft
    Virtually all of the Paris attackers - had been involved in petty crime / gang violence from a young age
    Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik - suffered abuse in his home from a young age, also suffered anti-Muslim discrimination

    And the list goes on. Check them yourself.

    EVERY SINGLE PERPETRATOR OF THESE ATTACKS HAD THEIR LIVES BECOME **** BECAUSE OF SOME TRAUMATIC EVENTS. THIS LED TO HATEFUL FEELINGS DEVELOPING, WHICH ATTRACT THEM TOWARDS ISIS.

    SO STOP BLAMING ISLAM LIKE THE BIGOT YOU ARE.
    Why does a traumatic/troubled past mean that they cannot be acting under religious motivation? Your argument is a non sequitur.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Sigh... Every single terrorist attacker since the Sydney Siege has had something go wrong in their lives.
    Why do you ignore the ones I mentioned, who were in clover before radicalisation? The girls are actually in Syria and the couple were prevented by security services from carrying out an attack. You don't want to even think about evidence that doesn't fit your narrative.

    Why do you also ignore QE2's point, that there are many millions of people who have had major things go wrong in their lives but who have not been radicalised and who have not turned into terrorists?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Why do you ignore the ones I mentioned, who were in clover before radicalisation? The girls are actually in Syria and the couple were prevented by security services from carrying out an attack. You don't want to even think about evidence that doesn't fit your narrative.

    Why do you also ignore QE2's point, that there are many millions of people who have had major things go wrong in their lives but who have not been radicalised and who have not turned into terrorists?
    Proof you didn't read my post

    I did bring up the San Bernardino shooters

    And I blocked that idiot QE2 long ago, he's not worth my time

    should I block you too? because you quite clearly skim-read the first sentence of my post before you attack me out of urge

    You keep on saying Islam is to blame, well these guys' lives going bad is the trigger for these things. Its never Islam.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Its never Islam.
    Would be funny if so many people weren't dying.

    But this seems to be Muslim argument number 1.

    Its[sic] never Islam.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Would be funny if so many people weren't dying.

    But this seems to be Muslim argument number 1.

    Its[sic] never Islam.
    I've proven it comprehensively by going through dozens of case studies

    what have you ever done apart from whinge about strawman arguments?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Proof you didn't read my post

    I did bring up the San Bernardino shooters
    I apologise. I didn't read the list in detail. You ignored the wife, and the girls though, so you have still ignored all but one of my examples. Nothing went bad in those lives, other than contact with radical Islam.

    And you don't explain the millions that do not become terrorists, and that have had no contact with radical Islam.

    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    And I blocked that idiot QE2 long ago, he's not worth my time
    As always, he is asks relevant and sensible questions. That you choose to ignore him says more about you than it does him.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    I've proven it comprehensively by going through dozens of case studies
    only to yourself

    and given your lack of knowledge that would have been an easy task

    Adults however will simply laugh at you and think you're an idiot and resit the urge to pat you on your head.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I apologise. I didn't read the list in detail. You ignored the wife, and the girls though, so you have still ignored all but one of my examples. Nothing went bad in those lives, other than contact with radical Islam.

    And you don't explain the millions that do not become terrorists, and that have had no contact with radical Islam.



    As always, he is asks relevant and sensible questions. That you choose to ignore him says more about you than it does him.
    Buddy, I've proven to you that pretty much every single case of terrorism involves the perpetrators' lives going to ****. I proved it with case studies, and I would gladly continue it for all 2016 and 2015 cases as well.

    But you are still just whinging about Islam being the cause. Substantiate your dumb claim please, I've literally taken the case studies and shown you that they become radicalised through their lives turning **** and them developing hateful feelings which draw them to ISIS.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    only to yourself

    and given your lack of knowledge that would have been an easy task

    Adults however will simply laugh at you and think you're an idiot and resit the urge to pat you on your head.
    look bacon, you people cry that Islam is the sole cause, I've proven that it isn't, so stop whinging and defend your bigoted argument instead of making personal attacks
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Buddy, I've proven to you that pretty much every single case of terrorism involves the perpetrators' lives going to ****. I proved it with case studies, and I would gladly continue it for all 2016 and 2015 cases as well.

    But you are still just whinging about Islam being the cause. Substantiate your dumb claim please, I've literally taken the case studies and shown you that they become radicalised through their lives turning **** and them developing hateful feelings which draw them to ISIS.
    It is foolish to pretend that Islam is not the cause and justification for Islamic terror.

    Yes, these people have problems - it is quite clear that to want to cause mass suffering and pain and death on the scale of IS, you must be quite deranged to begin with - but many millions of people all over the world also suffer poor situations and don't terrorists.

    The difference is those people find radical Islam and they find a sense of underground community, a book that claims to know all the answers, and an outlet for their frustrations on the world.

    Islam IS the cause of Islamic terror, and must distance itself from those who use it for terrorism. Unfortunately that would involve admitting that the Quran is not flawless; which most seem unwilling to do.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    I've proven to you that pretty much every single case of terrorism involves the perpetrators' lives going to ****.
    No you haven't. You have selected some terrorists where that statement is the case and ignored a similar number of terrorists where it certainly isn't the case.

    You continue to ignore the fact that radical Islam plays a part in all of the cases and the fact that there are countless people whose lives have been turned upside down but who have not been exposed to radicalisation and who do not become terrorists.
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    More fake news. All theatre terrorism/drills masquerading as actual events.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    look bacon, you people cry that Islam is the sole cause, I've proven that it isn't, so stop whinging and defend your bigoted argument instead of making personal attacks
    you've proven nothing.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    And I blocked that idiot QE2 long ago, he's not worth my time
    Ah, the old "can't respond to their points, so I'll block them" ploy.
    Top debating skills bro! Dunning-Kruger in full effect.

    You do realise that everyone else can see you failing to respond to reasonable points? And judge your position accordingly.

    alevelstresss
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    Must get real tiring constantly having to vehemently defend Islam despite more and more stories coming in like "IS Suicide bomber kills 4", and all the classic defences of "he wasn't a real Muslim" are meaning less and less when the attacker shouts "Praise be to Allah" and says they took inspiration from the Quuran. But hey ho I must just be getting Xenophobic, Islamophobic or Racist apparently but I wasn't informed when Islam became a race of people.

    Edit: Ah yes I forgot the classic, 'Bigot'. I must be one of those too (despite Muslims imposing their culture on innocent Westerners in their home countries [knife wielding muslim woman attacks French women for wearing bikinis] they can't be bigots at all because Muslims can do no wrong). Half of me wishes that the terrorists that are killing the innocents are getting the people who are stupidly defending Islam so that they'll remove the insane and delusional people from this world.
 
 
 
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