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    (Original post by Forum User)
    As I have already said in this thread, I do not think that is correct.

    I did an LLM at UCL and my highest mark was 93%, my lowest mark 76%. The marking guidelines for the LLM are slightly more strict than the marking guidelines for the LLB. Overall there is very little difference in marking standards between RG and non-RG universities. There may be a difference at Oxbridge.

    Of course there are other differences and in general most RG universities offer a better law course than most non-RG universities. But I do not believe that marking is one of them.
    Surely it won't be the marking, it will just be the level / difficulty of content which is making it easier to get higher marks?


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    (Original post by mizzsnazzter)
    Surely it won't be the marking, it will just be the level / difficulty of content which is making it easier to get higher marks?
    I don't really agree that it is easier to get higher marks. Speaking for myself my LLB marks at a non-RG uni were slightly lower than my LLM marks at a RG-uni.

    At my undergrad uni the average mark was about 55%. At a RG uni the average mark will be low to mid 60s. I cannot right now find the site but a few years ago I saw some data with average marks and breakdown of degree by class for 30+ unis at a range of standards which showed that this was a general trend. Of course I am not saying that it is easier to get higher marks at a better university: the marks are higher on average because the students are better on average and do more work (and receive better teaching)

    It is hard to say that an exam comprised of essay questions is 'easier' than another in a meaningful way because the questions are open-ended and do not admit of a perfect answer. It may be that the syllabus is narrower at lower-ranked universities but even then one can always read beyond the confines of the reading list and do better in the exam.
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    (Original post by Forum User)
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    At MMU 12% of law students get a 1st class degree. At Bristol only 7% of law students get a 1st class degree.

    At MMU the entry requirements are BBC-BBB. At Bristol the entry requirements are AAA.

    How can it be that there is more firsts awarded at MMU opposed Bristol when Bristol clearly has the brighter, more academic students?

    The law degree at MMU has to either be:

    a. Easier i.e. less content
    b. Marked to a lower standard i.e. an essay which achieves 65% at Bristol is worth 70% at MMU.

    It really is so counter-intuitive to argue otherwise.
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    (Original post by Conzy210)
    Without aiming to sound rude I think Hanna's post if anything proves the point that so many have made on this thread so I must say I agree.

    With top grades at their university (grades which would frankly not be obtainable at a better university, '88%'...) and fantastic EC's and work experience it appears clear to me that it is their university which has held them back.

    If I was choosing universities and viewed Hanna's post I would be worried. They have done everything possible whilst at university yet still don't have a TC, when so many at better universities do without as strong of an overall application.

    There is nothing wrong with being a legal assistant and completing your LPC prior to having a job offer, but it demonstrates that you have to lower your expectations somewhat.
    I agree here I do not see why people get so set and defensive on the point that what uni you go to does not matter when, it really does. Hannah has done everything she needed to do as you say, yet does not have a TC which for people who see her post and are not at an RG, yes be worried. It is harder to get those grades at a good uni (RG & Oxbridge) and my RG law friends have told me this for when I start my RG law degree in 2 weeks. Law is always going to be elitist, and those at non RG's need to either lower their expectations for a legal career as you say or just find another career choice. This is why I bang on about the whole RG thing because people at the lesser unis just never listen and accept the truth of the matter. If they were so committed to a law career they would have been switched on much earlier at GCSE and A level in order to get into a good university... *which is only RG and Oxbridge*

    Funding the LPC yourself is just dead money. If you get a TC before you graduate at a city firm and some regional firms they will pay for it. Why Hannah did not just paralegal or legal assistant until she bags a TC baffles me. Unless, of course, the TCs she has a chance of getting are at small firms which do not fund their trainees LPC.
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    (Original post by Conzy210)
    At MMU 12% of law students get a 1st class degree. At Bristol only 7% of law students get a 1st class degree.
    I do not know where that data comes from. If it is correct then I suspect that Bristol is a very large outlier compared to other decent universities. At Oxford, for example, 24% of students got a 1st class law degree (although they call it Jurisprudence). At LSE it is around 20%.
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    (Original post by ORW)
    I agree here I do not see why people get so set and defensive on the point that what uni you go to does not matter when, really it really does. Yes it is harder to get those grades at a good uni (RG & Oxbridge) and my RG law friends have told me this for when I start my RG law degree in 2 weeks. Law is always going to be elitist, and those at non RG's need to either lower their expectations for a legal career or just find another career choice. This is why I bang on about the whole RG thing because people at the lesser unis just never listen and accept the truth. If they were so committed to a law career they would have been switched on much earlier at GCSE and A level in order to get into a good university...

    Funding the LPC yourself is just dead money. Unless you get a TC before you graduate at a city firm and some regional firms which will pay for it. Why Hannah did not just paralegal or legal assistant until she bags a TC baffles me. Unless, of course, the TCs she has a chance of getting are at small firms which do not fund their trainees LPC.
    As already explained, my LPC is not self funded.
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    (Original post by Forum User)
    I do not know where that data comes from. If it is correct then I suspect that Bristol is a very large outlier compared to other decent universities. At Oxford, for example, 24% of students got a 1st class law degree (although they call it Jurisprudence). At LSE it is around 20%.
    Nottingham is one of the worst for grades out of all Russell group unis... Only 65% of students get 2:1s and above... Bearing in my the entry grade is A*AA, that means a lot of very smart people are graduating with 2:2s and will really struggle to secure TCs


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    Would would you class as a better institution though? Like how higher up league tables? In going to DMU for accounting and finance and am wandering if I should resit cause if I do a gap year I could go to the main Leicester uni but am being told it doesn't make the slightest difference anyway
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    (Original post by mizzsnazzter)
    Nottingham is one of the worst for grades out of all Russell group unis... Only 65% of students get 2:1s and above... Bearing in my the entry grade is A*AA, that means a lot of very smart people are graduating with 2:2s and will really struggle to secure TCs


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    And I thought about going there . If those stats are correct, then I am really worried about their level of teaching, unless they have exceptionally rigorous exams, which I highly doubt.
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    at the end of the day someone who goes to a non-RG uni to do law is never going to say there was no point getting their degree, and is always going to offer stories of exceptional circumstances. the reality is you have a much better chance of becoming a lawyer at a RG uni and have a lower chance of just ending up as a paralegal than those at non-RGs
    I find it funny that one of the previous posters is dismissing my remarks about what my mum (as a Judge now, but used to be a lawyer who gave out training contracts) is saying when they don't even have one? but the person who first asked the question can make their mind up about that...
    the thing with law is that there are more training contracts than graduates, and why would an employer pick a candidate with a degree from a less respected uni when all other aspects are equal? Getting into a RG uni demonstrates intelligence and commitment better than anything else on a CV.
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    (Original post by Forum User)
    I do not know where that data comes from. If it is correct then I suspect that Bristol is a very large outlier compared to other decent universities. At Oxford, for example, 24% of students got a 1st class law degree (although they call it Jurisprudence). At LSE it is around 20%.
    The figures are from unistats.

    I'm fairly certain Oxbridge are the outliers in terms of awarding 1st class degrees and even if other universities are higher than Bristol, it still doesn't explain how only 2/10 students who achieved AAA+ get a 1st yet 1/10 students who achieved BBB and below do. The course must be easier for the percentages to be even slightly comparable.
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    (Original post by mizzsnazzter)
    Nottingham is one of the worst for grades out of all Russell group unis... Only 65% of students get 2:1s and above... Bearing in my the entry grade is A*AA, that means a lot of very smart people are graduating with 2:2s and will really struggle to secure TCs
    Again I don't know where that data is from but, anecdotally, Nottingham has always been known as relatively stingy with its law degree classifications.
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    (Original post by Conzy210)
    The figures are from unistats.

    I'm fairly certain Oxbridge are the outliers in terms of awarding 1st class degrees and even if other universities are higher than Bristol, it still doesn't explain how only 2/10 students who achieved AAA+ get a 1st yet 1/10 students who achieved BBB and below do. The course must be easier for the percentages to be even slightly comparable.
    Ah, I see. It's annoyingly difficult to get the stats for multiple universities at once, or at least, it is when you have never used the site before. Perhaps there is an easy way to do so that I don't know.

    Of the RG universities I checked, Bristol was the lowest. Nottingham, mentioned above, was also low at 10% (although I note that 76% of people there got a 2:1 or above according to Unistats, not the 65% mentioned above). Interestingly if one compares stats for '2:1s or above', MMU seems to do worse than every RG uni that I checked.

    I don't think that the last part of your argument goes anywhere. I agree that if the degrees are marked to a similar standard then MMU students should receive lower classifications on average than RG students. I don't see how you propose to quantify 'how much' lower those classifications should be on average. I suspect that you fail to appreciate that there are some decent students even at quite poor universities, either because they had a bad couple of days during their A-Levels, or because they decided to study close to home (often for cultural reasons or because they are mature students with ties to an area). It may be that the OP is such a decent student, and he may go on to get a first at MMU when he would have also gotten a first elsewhere.

    As I've said before, I went to a poor university for my LLB. There were lots of very weak students there, but they universally got the weak grades that they deserved. There were no weak students receiving first class degrees.
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    (Original post by Roderic. Arisgo)
    Would would you class as a better institution though? Like how higher up league tables? In going to DMU for accounting and finance and am wandering if I should resit cause if I do a gap year I could go to the main Leicester uni but am being told it doesn't make the slightest difference anyway
    It will make quite a big difference in the type of firm you will be able to get into IMO


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    (Original post by Hann95)
    As already explained, my LPC is not self funded.
    Sorry just seen about that. From reading how your's was combined, fair enough on not being able to self fund as many can't. However, the fact you have done it all and good EC's as opposed to other's who mentioned their RG law friends have 2:1 plus average ECs yet got a TC does show it is your uni that has held you back I think. You're not looking for city TCs are you?? Cause I would lower expectations if you are
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    (Original post by ORW)
    Sorry just seen about that. From reading how your's was combined, fair enough on not being able to self fund as many can't. However, the fact you have done it all and good EC's as opposed to other's who mentioned their RG law friends have 2:1 plus average ECs yet got a TC does show it is your uni that has held you back I think. You're not looking for city TCs are you?? Cause I would lower expectations if you are
    Thanks but I'm not here for career advice.
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    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by ORW)
    Sorry just seen about that. From reading how your's was combined, fair enough on not being able to self fund as many can't. However, the fact you have done it all and good EC's as opposed to other's who mentioned their RG law friends have 2:1 plus average ECs yet got a TC does show it is your uni that has held you back I think. You're not looking for city TCs are you?? Cause I would lower expectations if you are
    Lol it's actually amazing how condescending you are.

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    Sorry you two above just cant accept the reality of the situation and how it is for law... Funny thing is other people on this post share my views on universities for law too. Hannah, yes I am no careers adviser, but I think you should be here for advise, even if from someone else, as you have no TC despite your 1st and lots of EC. If someone with your profile was from a RG uni, they would very very likely have got a TC upon finishing university. You would have saved yourself all the prejudicial comments as to your university and situation if you never posted about it, as surely you know TSR is full of Oxbridge/Russell Group biased people. You lit the fire for criticism when you came in with your first post. You could see the consensus was that OP has very very little chance with an MMU and non RG degree for that matter, the profile of which you fit (non RG). You as a non RG grad also should not be surprised to come across these comments because as you should know, law is pretty much the most elitist profession you can enter aside from investment banking many would say. Even whenever you do get a TC you will come across it. These people, who Hannah has called belittling, are just saying it as it is, and they are being honest about the situation.
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    (Original post by ANAREY1)
    at the end of the day someone who goes to a non-RG uni to do law is never going to say there was no point getting their degree, and is always going to offer stories of exceptional circumstances. the reality is you have a much better chance of becoming a lawyer at a RG uni and have a lower chance of just ending up as a paralegal than those at non-RGs
    I find it funny that one of the previous posters is dismissing my remarks about what my mum (as a Judge now, but used to be a lawyer who gave out training contracts) is saying when they don't even have one? but the person who first asked the question can make their mind up about that...
    the thing with law is that there are more training contracts than graduates, and why would an employer pick a candidate with a degree from a less respected uni when all other aspects are equal? Getting into a RG uni demonstrates intelligence and commitment better than anything else on a CV.
    You put this very well! Maybe having a lawyer parent you get this across to the likes of Hannah who are adamant such comments are 'belittling'
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    (Original post by ORW)
    You put this very well! Maybe having a lawyer parent you get this across to the likes of Hannah who are adamant such comments are 'belittling'
    Do give it a rest sweetheart. I don't know what your problem is, my life and career path really shouldn't be of such interest to you.
 
 
 
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