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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Reasonable suspicion they believe TV equipment is being used at the address. Normallt through observing or hearing such equipment.

    Refusing entrty or not having a licence is insufficient. Nobody said you should feel obliged about letting someone without authority enteer your dwelling, thats just a point raised by you.

    Yes they could just unplug or hide the TV, but people are caught and convicted just the same even free men of the land. Its about 200,000 a year.

    If you were a licence inspector then as its your job, you wouldnt go to the hassle of getting a warrant or prosecuting unless you had the requisite level of evidence. Yes they might hide the TV on that visit, but they keep coming back if they are that interested. Am sure there are hundreds of thousands without a licence who do evade, but there are also plenty who are convicted and then fined accordingly. All seems a lot of hassle, except of you get to call someone a fascist.
    You don't even need to hide the TV, just unplug it :yawn:


    Most people who are caught are poor, poorly educated people who are not hardened criminals but normal working class folks, unaware of their rights and are absolutely terrified of authority figures which is why I think it's vital we raise awareness of just how little, these nasty little thugs can do.
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    (Original post by HaramiSalami)
    You don't even need to hide the TV, just unplug it :yawn:


    Most people who are caught are poor, poorly educated people who are not hardened criminals but normal working class folks, unaware of their rights and are absolutely terrified of authority figures which is why I think it's vital we raise awareness of just how little, these nasty little thugs can do.
    Whats hard about not usings a TV to watch live television without a licence or take the risk? If you dont then nothing to worry about.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Whats hard about not usings a TV to watch live television without a licence or take the risk? If you dont then nothing to worry about.
    Our household does have a TV licence, I just take great exception to state bullying of citizens, what makes it so much worse is that these fascist goons who probably have low IQ's and small penises, harass people who don't even have televisions, simply because they are not on the list of addresses who have paid.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Reasonable suspicion they believe TV equipment is being used at the address. Normallt through observing or hearing such equipment.
    How would they "observe" or "hear" a TV? Stand outside and put their ears to the window? Even if you hear a TV that doesn't mean it's watching a programme let alone a BBC programme...

    As for the "detection vans" myth - as of 2011, "TVL has not, to date, used detection evidence in Court" (source).
    Refusing entrty or not having a licence is insufficient. Nobody said you should feel obliged about letting someone without authority enteer your dwelling, thats just a point raised by you.
    That's the point - what is sufficient that can be reasonably obtained? It's very difficult for them to obtain a warrant.

    Yes they could just unplug or hide the TV, but people are caught and convicted just the same even free men of the land. Its about 200,000 a year.

    If you were a licence inspector then as its your job, you wouldnt go to the hassle of getting a warrant or prosecuting unless you had the requisite level of evidence. Yes they might hide the TV on that visit, but they keep coming back if they are that interested. Am sure there are hundreds of thousands without a licence who do evade, but there are also plenty who are convicted and then fined accordingly.
    Or just deny you use the tv box to watch BBC programmes, simple - they can't prove otherwise.

    All seems a lot of hassle, except of you get to call someone a fascist.
    I didn't call anyone a fascist.
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    I've wondered whether or not i actually need a tv license. I almost never watch tv and if i do its probably a film.

    From what i understand a tv license is just for the BBC right? So if i don't watch the BBC i don't need one? That seems impossible for them to prove/disprove in court though. What if i just have a monitor and watch things on demand such as channel 4? Surely, if i use a vpn I could even watch the BBC and they couldn't prove/disprove it even if they monitored me specifically (though it would be illegal and I'd be astonished if the police had the resources to waste doing that to people).

    Because, i mean, like, i don't want to spend money.
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    The licence is not for the reception of BBC programmes. Although that's where the money goes.
    The alternative is to fund the BBC from general taxation- but that raises the claim of a state broadcaster and influence.
    Another alternative is commercials

    The licence is the operation of tv receiving equipment.
    If you watch any live tv- sky , itv or BBC then you require a licence.
    If ( as happened in the old days) you wanted to only watch tapes/DVD then the advice was to fill the ariel socket on the to with gunk to show that it couldn't receive
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    (Original post by domonict)
    The licence is not for the reception of BBC programmes. Although that's where the money goes.
    The alternative is to fund the BBC from general taxation- but that raises the claim of a state broadcaster and influence.
    Another alternative is commercials

    The licence is the operation of tv receiving equipment.
    If you watch any live tv- sky , itv or BBC then you require a licence.
    If ( as happened in the old days) you wanted to only watch tapes/DVD then the advice was to fill the ariel socket on the to with gunk to show that it couldn't receive
    You are right that even if you don't watch BBC channels, but you watch ITV you are legally obliged to pay, but there is no way anyone in their right mind would vandalise their own home to prove anything to these goons.
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    Ah, ok so you need a tv license for all channels then.

    Still, what's to stop me using a vpn and just going to on-demand (besides ethics). Do i need a tv license to watch netflix and streaming services even if the program has been broadcast on tv?
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    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    How would they "observe" or "hear" a TV? Stand outside and put their ears to the window? Even if you hear a TV that doesn't mean it's watching a programme let alone a BBC programme...

    As for the "detection vans" myth - as of 2011, "TVL has not, to date, used detection evidence in Court" (source).

    That's the point - what is sufficient that can be reasonably obtained? It's very difficult for them to obtain a warrant.


    Or just deny you use the tv box to watch BBC programmes, simple - they can't prove otherwise.


    I didn't call anyone a fascist.
    Look through the window I guess ir they heard it whilst being stood at the doorway. You dont have to identify it as a BBC programme you just need reasonable supsicion. We have already had this argument with the DVD player. At this stage you just have to satisfy the magistrate for the warrant.

    why are you telling me about detector vans? its irrelevant the point was never raised.

    Sufficient evidence would be whether the magistrate is satsified the TV person has satisfied the reasonable supicion test.

    You give a great defence there denial. I bet that always works and they have never though of that before. Magistrates decide, so its not soemthing you have to worry about. You will get a larger fine if it goes to trial and you are found guilty though.
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    (Original post by Marked Target)
    I've wondered whether or not i actually need a tv license. I almost never watch tv and if i do its probably a film.

    From what i understand a tv license is just for the BBC right? So if i don't watch the BBC i don't need one? That seems impossible for them to prove/disprove in court though. What if i just have a monitor and watch things on demand such as channel 4? Surely, if i use a vpn I could even watch the BBC and they couldn't prove/disprove it even if they monitored me specifically (though it would be illegal and I'd be astonished if the police had the resources to waste doing that to people).

    Because, i mean, like, i don't want to spend money.
    Do not watch a live tv programme, then you are fine. You can live without a licence, just use the radio. You can use things like Netflix and ITV player or 4OD. Also DVDs. Dount they would find you with a VPN although if caught then youd just get a harsher sentence.


    Do I need a TV Licence if I don’t watch BBC programmes? A TV Licence is a legal permission to install or use television equipment to receive (i.e. watch or record) live TV programmes, regardless of which channel you're watching, which device you are using (TV, computer, laptop, tablet, mobile phone or any other), and how you receive them (terrestrial, satellite, cable, via the internet or any other way). The licence fee is not a subscription to watch BBC programmes but mandated by law. Under the Communications Act 2003, the BBC in its role as the licensing authority has a duty to issue TV Licences and collect the licence fee.
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    If I wanted to watch old shows on BBC iPlayer (say, a week old) - Do I still need a license?

    I currently use my TV for Amazon Prime/YouTube. I don't have freeview channels, because I don't have an aerial. No license needed right? (Not like I've ever had one of these guys at my house, but still!)
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Look through the window I guess if they heard it whilst being stood at the doorway. You dont have to identify it as a BBC programme you just need reasonable suspicion.
    You give a great defence there denial.
    And you have great evidence to justify a search warrant there - looking through a window. :rofl:
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    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    what i always wondered about this 'loophole' is how the hell can they tell if you watch it whilst your laptop is plugged in or not?

    even if you were plugged in and watch it for every day of your life without a licence, and they say oi m8 u watched it plugged in, can't i just say na wasn't plugged in prove it

    the burden of proof is on them to prove that my laptop was plugged in whilst i watched, there's literally no conceivable way they could do that
    There is absolutely no way for them to know which is why this is such a good loophole.
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    I don't understand why you need a TV licence in the first place?
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    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    And you have great evidence to justify a search warrant there - looking through a window. :rofl:

    Yes and if they see a TV being used thats all they need to create reasonable supicion. Thats the point fo a warrant its an aid to conduct further investigation. Thats how its done.

    S366 Communications Act 2003 concerns issuing warrants.

    366Powers to enforce TV licensing(1)If a justice of the peace, a sheriff in Scotland or a lay magistrate in Northern Ireland is satisfied by information on oath that there are reasonable grounds for believing—(a)that an offence under section 363 has been or is being committed,(b)that evidence of the commission of the offence is likely to be on premises specified in the information, or in a vehicle so specified, and(c)that one or more of the conditions set out in subsection (3) is satisfied,he may grant a warrant under this section.(2)A warrant under this section is a warrant authorising any one or more persons authorised for the purpose by the BBC or by OFCOM—(a)to enter the premises or vehicle at any time (either alone or in the company of one or more constables); and(b)to search the premises or vehicle and examine and test any television receiver found there.


    (8)A person is guilty of an offence if he—(a)intentionally obstructs a person in the exercise of any power conferred on that person by virtue of a warrant under this section; or
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/366
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    How do you have the time to sit down and watch Emmerdale at uni?
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    So as long as my parents have a TV license and I only stream live things on my laptop when it's not on charge, I'm perfectly fine?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Yes and if they see a TV being used thats all they need to create reasonable supicion. Thats the point fo a warrant its an aid to conduct further investigation. Thats how its done.
    that doesn't say anything about what constitutes "reasonable grounds" (for believing that there is an infringement).
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    (Original post by somevirtualguy)
    So as long as my parents have a TV license and I only stream live things on my laptop when it's not on charge, I'm perfectly fine?
    you can put your laptop on charge too, it's literally impossible for them to tell whether your laptop was plugged in or not, don't listen to the fear-mongering
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