Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    As it is so obvious, that to most people it doesn't need to be said.
    It is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said......but you said it for no reason.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    It is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said......but you said it for no reason.
    Yes, as I remembered that you are very pedantic and you would try to do something like that.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    100% support the doctors strike, go for it lads (and lasses)

    They all already work 7 days a week; this new contract will put more patients at risk due to junior doctors being overstretched and I would rather have a well rested doctor treat me than a tired one
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    The government should simply break the union.

    Stop negotiating contracts with new doctors collectively, and instead only negotiate them on an individual basis. Make agreeing to negotiate such a contract a requirement to receive a waiver for the full market cost of medical school.

    Done.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Doesn't bother me. Everything I need is done at a very efficient private hospital.

    My dog gets better care from the veterinary group we use than people on the NHS.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You put too much faith in people to engage in people being selfless, and they haven't asked for more money...apart from the whole way through, may I remind you that what has been the main point has been the rates of pay?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-contract-dis/

    Or if you prefer toilet paper

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...te-emails-show

    The dispute has been over rates of pay, while publicly pretending it's about safety until, and I believe since, clear evidence to the contrary. Safety is the new excuse because openly admitting it's about pay will give you very little public support, it's the exact same thing we're seeing on Southern Rail which will also hasten support for new legislation, especially if the latter extends beyond the one franchise, which has been threatened but would be legally questionable.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Exactly.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Yes, as I remembered that you are very pedantic and you would try to do something like that.
    Lol.

    You are the who changed what you wrote. Not me. I simply questioned it.

    So really...you are the pedantic one.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    Not really, but continue toplace your head in the sand on the value of remuneration, idiot. So much intelligence, for one who doesn't get how economics or society functions. lol. and you have asperger's seemingly, I like how you engineer me to believe your side, mr. intelligent.

    look, mr. asperger's dismiss reality, which many of his brethren agree with, since it doesn't meet his view of life...haha.
    AKA you can't come up with an argument so you spend your time throwing insults.

    It isn't my issue that you are not intelligent enough to get a decent job. So you shouldn't really take it out on me.

    Well, you don't understand "Economics". It is harder to become a doctor than to become a Policeman. Therefore, Doctors are paid more. It is simply supply and demand.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Lol.

    You are the who changed what you wrote. Not me. I simply questioned it.

    So really...you are the pedantic one.
    You actually think that Ecuador is a comparable country to the UK, you need to revaluate yourself.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    You actually think that Ecuador is a comparable country to the UK, you need to revaluate yourself.
    Except that I wrote that I didn't.....I said "It is simply a question"..........
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    AKA you can't come up with an argument so you spend your time throwing insults.

    It isn't my issue that you are not intelligent enough to get a decent job. So you shouldn't really take it out on me.

    Well, you don't understand "Economics". It is harder to become a doctor than to become a Policeman. Therefore, Doctors are paid more. It is simply supply and demand.
    Actually, no. it doesn't take any more or less intelligence to be a doctor, don't try and big yourself up...hahahaha. But then you've insulted me, I merely respond in kind. Try and be a man and act like such, since I don't care any other way.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    So what about nurses? They have to stretch themselves as well by being given at least 9 to 12 patients and it's disgusting. I know signing up to be nurse is not about money and pay, but it's reached to a point where nurses can't buy their own home or start a family. Moreover, some nurses are taking an extra two to three patients and are getting the pay of only 8 patients. It's not fair - working overtime because of closure in certain wards like A&E and maternity because there aren't enough nurses and doctors should have opened the Secretary of State for Health's eyes. Stop treating healthcare professionals like crap!
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    Sorry, but they earn a lot more than the average salary. It's just empty whining, and not realising how/why they get paid more, which is self-evident in your case.
    woah woah woah! That's not fair! jr doctors are basically the backbone of the service. The consultants supervise and "consult" and diagnose and make decisions, but at the end of the day it is the jr doctors who make sure that those decisions are done and are carried through. Usually, doctors will have a list of tasks to get done and although they technically need to finish by e.g. 5pm, they may end up staying back till 6:30 - 7 to finish their work, for which they don't get extra pay (they get basic pay).
    Doctors who work nights and weekends get paid more than the basic pay because those hours are considered "anti social hours". The new contract changes the times of those anti social hours, so they are no longer eligible for the increased pay. (Saturday until 10 pm is no longer considered eligible for increased pay, even though doctors are working traditionally anti social hours! Who on earth considers it okay to work from Monday to Saturday 7am to 10pm as a normal working week?!!?)
    This means that they'll need to work harder to earn the same amount of money as before, be more tired and potentially make more mistakes.
    The government may be increasing the basic pay rate - but you have to keep in mind that the basic pay is what gets taxed... so of course they would increase that, because that means more tax income!

    Essentially, it boils down to doctors doing more work for less money (and they already do a lot of work). But may I also point out that this has other side effects, increased tiredness and increased chance of mistakes happening being one of them. Doctors becoming demoralised and under appreciated being another! Wouldn't you rather be treated by a doc who feels like his work is valuable and recognised than one who is overworked and tired?
    Junior doctors don't actually earn a lot more than average salary, according to this data. I believe that's a misconception. (?)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marsbar3007)
    woah woah woah! That's not fair! jr doctors are basically the backbone of the service. The consultants supervise and "consult" and diagnose and make decisions, but at the end of the day it is the jr doctors who make sure that those decisions are done and are carried through. Usually, doctors will have a list of tasks to get done and although they technically need to finish by e.g. 5pm, they may end up staying back till 6:30 - 7 to finish their work, for which they don't get extra pay (they get basic pay).
    Doctors who work nights and weekends get paid more than the basic pay because those hours are considered "anti social hours". The new contract changes the times of those anti social hours, so they are no longer eligible for the increased pay. (Saturday until.. I believe 7pm? Half day, by no doubt, is no longer considered eligible for increased pay, even though doctors are working traditionally anti social hours! Who on earth considers it okay to work on a saturday for no benefit! ?)
    This means that they'll need to work harder to earn the same amount of money as before, be more tired and potentially make more mistakes.
    The government may be increasing the basic pay rate - but you have to keep in mind that the basic pay is what gets taxed... so of course they would increase that, because that means more tax income!

    Essentially, it boils down to doctors doing more work for less money (and they already do a lot of work). But may I also point out that this has other side effects, increased tiredness and increased chance of mistakes happening being one of them. Doctors becoming demoralised and under appreciated being another! Wouldn't you rather be treated by a doc who feels like his work is valuable and recognised than one who is overworked and tired?
    Junior doctors don't actually earn a lot more than average salary, according to this data. I believe that's a misconception. (?)
    Let's not forget nurses, this is getting ridiculous. The NHS is gonna collapse and it'll be Jeremy Hunt's fault and the PM!
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CrazySkittles)
    Let's not forget nurses, this is getting ridiculous. The NHS is gonna collapse and it'll be Jeremy Hunt's fault and the PM!
    Sorry, yes I agree that healthcare professionals as a whole are stretched thin and overworked, and nurses often go beyond the call of duty. However, the reason I placed so much emphasis on junior doctors is because the contract (as far as i know - I could be wrong) affects them mainly, a third of workforce, and makes the workload worse than it already is.

    I'm no expert, but I think that the new contract in place will cause extra strain on other healthcare professionals too. Every nurse, sister and doctor I've met so far supports the strike too.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    hahaha....are you insecure? is your **** small?? why are you trying to force your view onto me? haha.... what I said is correct, that prestige plays a role, you're so desperate to try and convert me to your thinking, which is I why i believe you have asperger's.....prove you don't.
    Err right....

    I am simply pointing out that you cannot even answer my arguments.

    Not my issue if you can't and you are resorting to insults.

    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    Actually, no. it doesn't take any more or less intelligence to be a doctor, don't try and big yourself up...hahahaha. But then you've insulted me, I merely respond in kind. Try and be a man and act like such, since I don't care any other way.
    Well, obviously it does. Do you even a need A levels to become a cop?

    Lol. Please don't tell me that you want to be a cop hhahah
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CrazySkittles)
    So what about nurses?
    They have different contracts. Quite frankly, if they tried to the same thing with nurses, it would completely fail.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Err right....

    I am simply pointing out that you cannot even answer my arguments.

    Not my issue if you can't and you are resorting to insults.



    Well, obviously it does. Do you even a need A levels to become a cop?

    Lol. Please don't tell me that you want to be a cop hhahah
    A levels are needed for many things, and? and police? not really, not my style. my style also isn't to be cajoled into conversation by some "doctor" online who wants to feel powerful and "control" some stranger online..
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    A levels are needed for many things, and? and police? not really, not my style. my style also isn't to be cajoled into conversation by some "doctor" online who wants to feel powerful and "control" some stranger online..
    I don't know what is so difficult to understand.

    My point is quite simple. It requires more intelligence to become a Doctor than a policeman. That is why you require A Levels for one.

    I don't think anyone is that surprised by this except for you.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    I don't know what is so difficult to understand.

    My point is quite simple. It requires more intelligence to become a Doctor than a policeman. That is why you require A Levels for one.

    I don't think anyone is that surprised by this except for you.
    I'm saying youre wrong, and I disagree. But then this phases you, since your perspective is the reality. but cool, i've had enough now, i know what you're about haha.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.