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    (Original post by RobML)
    Where does the bible outlaw homosexual relationships? It's only gay sex iirc

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    If you're in a relationship but not having sex it isn't much of a relationship, is it? :laugh:
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If you're in a relationship but not having sex it isn't much of a relationship, is it? :laugh:
    Yes? He's celibate, anyway.

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    (Original post by RobML)
    Where does the bible outlaw homosexual relationships? It's only gay sex iirc

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    It doesn't and anyway, it's pretty obvious that Jesus and some of his disciples are gay, all that kissing and brotherly love and keeping the women out of the circle. Being gay or bisexual in the sort of aristocratic circles Jesus probably moved in was pretty widespread then anyway, they followed Greek-influenced sexual and philosophical culture.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If you're in a relationship but not having sex it isn't much of a relationship, is it? :laugh:
    I expect more people have a relationship without sex than we imagine. I also think that within many churches there are men who are homosexually inclined but celebate including clergy. You have to remember that homosexuality would have been illegal for any man under 21 until the 1990s, and that very few men born even in the early 1960s would have come out before the 1990s. So becoming a vicar or priest would mean no questions being asked by anyone as to their sexuality.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I didn't say you'd quoted it, did I? In your second post on the front page of this thread, you said
    "
    .... The Bible makes it abundantly clear in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual acts are sin. If he doesn't believe this he should not be a bishop and his authority should be taken from him, simple as... "

    Please stop citing the Old Testament as your evidence if you don't believe it is evidence of God's intent. If you do believe it is, please stop claiming elsewhere that only the New Testament is a valid source of God's will.
    It is a sin
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It doesn't and anyway, it's pretty obvious that Jesus and some of his disciples are gay, all that kissing and brotherly love and keeping the women out of the circle. Being gay or bisexual in the sort of aristocratic circles Jesus probably moved in was pretty widespread then anyway, they followed Greek-influenced sexual and philosophical culture.
    This is so typical of modern scholarship to apply our values to a culture 2,000 years ago.

    Before homosexuality entered mainstream consciousness, soldiers used to walk down the street holding hands, spartan warriors used to kiss each other before battle. It didn't mean they were gay. Men weren't so afraid of being affectionate, now they're all worried about being called gay if they show any kind of emotion.

    Your logic of "men being physically affectionate => gay" is one of the main ways we train our modern men to be emotionally stunted. Congratulations.

    Please don't read back into history with 21st century values. It's incredibly ignorant.


    For the matter at hand, one thing is certain, allowing homosexual priests and then somehow expecting bishops to all be heterosexual is bizarre.

    Unfortunately, the Church of England is hung together with a series of odd paradoxes designed to keep everyone happy when in reality the traditionalists will never be happy with homosexuality and the liberals will never stop pushing the agenda. It's destined for another big split despite the best efforts of Welby & his predecessor.

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    (Original post by Supersaps)

    Please don't read back into history with 21st century values. It's incredibly ignorant.
    Can I suggest you read something about all the evidence for homosexual practises in the ancient world, before stating that they didn't happen?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality

    (Original post by Supersaps)
    For the matter at hand, one thing is certain, allowing homosexual priests and then somehow expecting bishops to all be heterosexual is bizarre.

    Unfortunately, the Church of England is hung together with a series of odd paradoxes designed to keep everyone happy when in reality the traditionalists will never be happy with homosexuality and the liberals will never stop pushing the agenda. It's destined for another big split despite the best efforts of Welby & his predecessor.
    It's true that it's predictable that some bishops will be gay. They always have been, it's just been hidden before.

    Nobody is pushing an agenda, as I understand it, the struggle for gay people within organised religions like Christianity is for non-judgemental attitudes. Unfortunately, they are up against profound bigotry and homophobia, which is what we see in this thread coming from some of the 'religious'.

    It's strange how often a religion of peace and love is invoked to support agendas of hate.
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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    Where have I heard that before, oh yeah...me!
    I'm still up to discuss.
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    (Original post by TheDailyMan)
    It is a sin
    you're a sin

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Can I suggest you read something about all the evidence for homosexual practises in the ancient world, before stating that they didn't happen?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality
    Holy ****. How's that strawman doing?

    I'm clearly not saying homosexuality didn't exist - St Paul, in fact, writes about it. I am saying it wasn't part of 'mainstream consciousness' and they didn't label men as gay just because they were affectionate with one another (Unlike you.)


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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Can I suggest you read something about all the evidence for homosexual practises in the ancient world, before stating that they didn't happen?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality



    It's true that it's predictable that some bishops will be gay. They always have been, it's just been hidden before.

    Nobody is pushing an agenda, as I understand it, the struggle for gay people within organised religions like Christianity is for non-judgemental attitudes. Unfortunately, they are up against profound bigotry and homophobia, which is what we see in this thread coming from some of the 'religious'.

    It's strange how often a religion of peace and love is invoked to support agendas of hate.
    I think Christianophobia is becoming more prevalent than homophobia
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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    Holy ****. How's that strawman doing?

    I'm clearly not saying homosexuality didn't exist - St Paul, in fact, writes about it. I am saying it wasn't part of 'mainstream consciousness' and they didn't label men as gay just because they were affectionate with one another (Unlike you.)


    SS
    And that has what relevance? I didn't say Jesus was called gay by his supporters. I said he was gay, eg, from the texts, he clearly had homosexual orientation. After all, what else is all that stuff about "the disciple he loved" and "his beloved disciple" about, if not that? The fact that the NT doesn't call it that is irrelevant.
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    (Original post by StudyJosh)
    I think Christianophobia is becoming more prevalent than homophobia
    People are just much more informed nowadays and easily recognise the main tenets of 'official Christianity', such as virgin birth, the holy Trinity, Jesus as God / Son of God / God-imbued man, miracles, ascension, etc, etc, as so much nonsense. Without all that clobber, organised Christ-ians have a hard time doing the convincing and most new recruits to Christianity these days are either the less educated and dimmer sort of people, or else are simply moving between sects. (Most evidence points to the latter.)
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    People are just much more informed nowadays and easily recognise the main tenets of 'official Christianity', such as virgin birth, the holy Trinity, Jesus as God / Son of God / God-imbued man, miracles, ascension, etc, etc, as so much nonsense. Without all that clobber, organised Christ-ians have a hard time doing the convincing and most new recruits to Christianity these days are either the less educated and dimmer sort of people, or else are simply moving between sects. (Most evidence points to the latter.)
    2 Thessalonians 2:11 : And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
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    (Original post by TheDailyMan)
    2 Thessalonians 2:11 : And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    Oh no. A holy book that claims that anyone who doesn't accept it is damned. Now there's a real shocker, they don't usually do that.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Oh no. A holy book that claims that anyone who doesn't accept it is damned. Now there's a real shocker, they don't usually do that.
    Eve deceived Adam
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    (Original post by TheDailyMan)
    Homos are mentally ill
    the irony is that jesus encouraged you to love outcasts and sick people, and lying is also a sin, and as there's heaps of evidence as to why being gay is not an illness, you're sinning twice! nice one! let's eradicate sin by sinning! i love religion!

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    (Original post by snikerio)
    the irony is that jesus encouraged you to love outcasts and sick people, but youre an idiot, so never mind

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    Didn't say i had anything against them, only that its a sin and there mentally unwell.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Oh no. A holy book that claims that anyone who doesn't accept it is damned. Now there's a real shocker, they don't usually do that.
    If you don't agree with it, it's because the DEVIL made you.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If you're in a relationship but not having sex it isn't much of a relationship, is it? :laugh:
    Shows what you know about relationships...
 
 
 
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