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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    Reason is subjective, no one can be truly objective. What if the truth is that there is no definitive year to make a 'threshold'?
    biological observations aren't subjective. unless you're saying our eye sights are this meaningful or something...? you're getting a bit desperate here if you're using *this* as a reason against what I said

    Puberty is a progression.
    yes but not in the way you're suggesting - if you've started puberty, then that's basically it - you're going to be sexually developed soon, or at least to a reasonable extent. if what you're saying is "hoooold up! hold up! one person out of a huge amount isn't ready yet! call the whole thing off for everybody" then that's like saying that the age to purcahse alcohol should be higher just because some people have rare liver diseases and might make mistakes in their amounts of alcohol that they think they're drinking.

    So although the body might have matured by then, it would still be nearer the start of cognitive maturity.
    again, your idea of cognitive maturity...is 25.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)



    again, your idea of cognitive maturity...is 25.

    I'll say it again- Christ. It's not his idea of cognitive maturity, your brain does not stop developing, until 25. That's not a crazy notion he's plucked from his head, that is knowledge, based on scientific evidence.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Are you being serious? I seriously think they need to teach Psychology as a compulsory subject, this is basic stuff. I haven't got to justify myself, I'm merely repeating knowledge.

    Because at around the age of 16, you are considered sufficiently developed for full-informed consent, and decision making. No one has ever stated that at 16 you are a fully developed human being. You only need to compare your current self to you at 16 to see that.
    ....fully developed in terms of what though? intelligence? sexual consent isn't a matter of intelligence. it's a matter of opinion and hormones to form a certain opinion. that's the mental aspect - the bodily aspect would be...either an erection or getting wet.

    Summary.
    Basic information-processing skills such as abstract thinking, logical reasoning increase through childhood and adolescence to around 15/16, and then level off. At 15/ 16 we are considered to be more or less as proficient as adults in such basic skills as moral reasoning and logical analysis.
    So in that respect, we are considered to have the cognitive capacity to make fully informed decisions.

    But we still have some way to go, to being a fully developed adult. we still are less proficient at weighing the costs and benefits of risky decisions, still lack ability in planning ahead. Our prefrontal cortex doesn't fully develop until our 20s for example, and that's responsible for more higher level cognitive processes such as problem solving, judgement, reasoning, impulse control.
    again, this is totally irrelevant. the consequences of sex aren't in the biological formula for producing a consent for sexual intercourse. you're talking about a prohibition for sex that isn't intellectually *flawless*

    At 16 it's a lot better than at 12/ 14, but we still have some way to go.

    what?! :lol: so with an age of consent set at 18 in india, they are more progressive than us?! what about denmark, the netherlands and sweden?! they're less progressive than india?

    In contrast, our limbic system which is involved in reward, pleasure, stimulation-seeking, matures earlier in puberty. Hence why 16 year old's are likely to partake in risky behaviours. The part of our brain which seeks pleasure and reward is developed more than the part of our brain which is involved in reason, planning and moderation.
    again, irrelevant in an objective sense. you're talking about an age where the state gives you permission to have sex. not when you can literally, in terms of your brain and body, consent to sex. this is where your argument falls completely on its face. you're not even arguing about the right thing - you're talking about a prohibiton, or "governmental threshold age". I, on the other hand, am talking about biology.

    Bit of a tangent there I realise. Remember, no one is saying that at 16 you are a fully developed human being. But you are significantly more developed than at 12-14. Yes, we still have a lot more developing to do. But at 16 you are considered mature enough to start experiencing life and developing as more of an adult, to make your own mistakes in a way.
    you're more mentally developed at literally *any* higher age than you are right now though in one sense. so what?
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    I'll say it again- Christ. It's not his idea of cognitive maturity, your brain does not stop developing, until 25. That's not a crazy notion he's plucked from his head, that is knowledge, based on scientific evidence.
    you're not even clarifying your wider point - why is this relevant to this discussion? I'm not the one saying that the brain in terms of intelligence must be even highly developed, I am saying that it needs to be such that it can form an opinion of wanting sex with somebody + the bodily processes that allow sex to happen.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    biological observations aren't subjective. unless you're saying our eye sights are this meaningful or something...? you're getting a bit desperate here if you're using *this* as a reason against what I said



    yes but not in the way you're suggesting - if you've started puberty, then that's basically it - you're going to be sexually developed soon, or at least to a reasonable extent. if what you're saying is "hoooold up! hold up! one person out of a huge amount isn't ready yet! call the whole thing off for everybody" then that's like saying that the age to purcahse alcohol should be lower just because some people have rare liver diseases and might make mistakes in their amounts of alcohol that they think they're drinking.



    again, your idea of cognitive maturity...is 25.
    I'm saying that in your pursuit of objectivity you're missing the reality of the situation. Eyesight? What is that supposed to mean? You said 'truth is a matter of reason'. Reason is subjective, reality is objective. Therefore accurate observations of reality are objective.

    I'm not saying that's my idea of cognitive maturity, it's a result of scientific research. Sixteen is a compromise because although it's not full maturity, it's enough to be considered capable. So one biological observation is an idea but another is 'not subjective'?

    Eh, It's hardly 'one person' or 'a rare disorder', there's a wide range of growth rates in puberty. A rare disorder would be someone who doesn't mature at all in puberty and still retains the size and mind of a child in adulthood.
    Actually, my point was that the body and mind mature at different rates.
    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    you're not even clarifying your wider point - why is this relevant to this discussion? I'm not the one saying that the brain in terms of intelligence must be even highly developed, I am saying that it needs to be such that it can form an opinion of wanting sex with somebody + the bodily processes that allow sex to happen.
    I was pointing out that the definitive point of cognitive maturity is 25.

    However, there's a major difference between minimum requirements to physically make a decision and the actual end of cognitive growth. Drawing the line at an age where there is a noticeable increase in cognitive functions that allow good understanding and relatively safe decision making, makes sense.
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    I'm calling it a day here, probably won't reply.
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    (Original post by inspiringtop123)
    You're probably a closet paedo yourself if you actually condone their disgusting fantasies. They should be treated, not accepted.
    Yes, they should be treated. That's what I'm advocating. They're people with a mental problem who will likely need psychologically counselling to help deal with it. But generally, we treat mentally ill people as people deserving of help and support to get them through their problems, not disgusting monsters to be repulsed by even if they haven't actually done anything wrong.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Wtf child porn, whether animated or not, should never be made legal. It's just going to feed their fantasies and encourage them to abuse children.
    No more than an animated or virtual depiction of any other crime will encourage people watching it to go out and commit it for real. For example, should we ban GTA on the basis that it will encourage people to go into organised crime?
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Wtf child porn, whether animated or not, should never be made legal. It's just going to feed their fantasies and encourage them to abuse children.
    What a load of bs

    only reason child porn is illegal is due to the fact there is a market for it and potentially encourages further child molestation.

    not because it allows pedophiles to get off, also please show me evidence of it encouraging them to abuse children.
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    (Original post by BabyLadDarren)
    What a load of bs

    only reason child porn is illegal is due to the fact there is a market for it and potentially encourages further child molestation.

    not because it allows pedophiles to get off.
    But animated videos wouldn't put kids in risk
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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    But animated videos wouldn't put kids in risk
    I know, hence why there's no justification for it not being allowed.
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    (Original post by FightToWin)
    I don't know about you, but I could not take my child onto a train or bus and have someone staring at them imagining what they'd do to them if they could and think "That's ok, we're too harsh on them, they can't help it bless them." Posted from TSR Mobile
    Leering at someone in a blatantly sexual way is sexual harassment. It most certainly is not ok. But again, that's an action rather than just a desire.
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    Paedophiles are mentally ill. They're a threat to society. There's no way I could defend paedophilia.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    ....fully developed in terms of what though? intelligence? sexual consent isn't a matter of intelligence. it's a matter of opinion and hormones to form a certain opinion. that's the mental aspect - the bodily aspect would be...either an erection or getting wet.
    This is my last post to you. You just aren't understanding this.I don't know why, your brain seems incapable of comprehending this, makes me wonder what your cognitive capacities are to be honest.

    The decision to have sex with a person is not just biological, it involves a range of psychological factors. For example, whether you feel ready to have sex, whether you want to have sex with that person. Whether you know your own mind enough, to distinguish between wanting sex and knowing it's the best for yourself, or whether you are doing it due to peer pressure, not wanting to let someone down, or thinking it's what should be done. Whether you have the ability to be safe and responsible about it. All of these, are a function of cognitive processes, dare I say... duh.

    You only need to hear young people talk about sex, to know that they do not have the same level of understanding, the same insight into themselves, as older teens do. I know it's hard for you to understand this, I don't understand why exactly because to me this is common sense, but try talking to young teenagers about sex, trying hearing their thoughts on the matter. And then talk to an older teenage group, and see the difference. I just don't understand why you can't seem to understand the difference in cognitive capacities between young and older teenagers. You're being obtuse.



    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    again, this is totally irrelevant. the consequences of sex aren't in the biological formula for producing a consent for sexual intercourse. you're talking about a prohibition for sex that isn't intellectually *flawless*
    No idea what that means. I doubt even you do to be honest, and you wrote it. Poor sod.



    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    what?! :lol: so with an age of consent set at 18 in india, they are more progressive than us?! what about denmark, the netherlands and sweden?! they're less progressive than india?
    Sweetie, sweetie, sweetie. When I said 'a long way to go' I was referring to cognitive development. For some reason you seem to think I was referring to the age of consent being 16, when I said that.



    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    again, irrelevant in an objective sense. you're talking about an age where the state gives you permission to have sex. not when you can literally, in terms of your brain and body, consent to sex. this is where your argument falls completely on its face. you're not even arguing about the right thing - you're talking about a prohibiton, or "governmental threshold age". I, on the other hand, am talking about biology.
    What are you even talking about? You do realise that the brain is biological don't you sweetie? So when I'm talking about the structural development of the brain, that is biology. For the third time tonight- Christ. What has talking about the development of our limbic system to do with 'governmental threshold' ages? This is basic, very basic neuroscience. **** me :rofl: :rofl:



    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    you're more mentally developed at literally *any* higher age than you are right now though in one sense. so what?
    I don't want to be harsh. But I really do feel like I'm arguing with an idiot. You haven't understood a word I have said. I hope you're young, because otherwise I'd be very concerned if I were you. Very concerned.

    I'll try and spell this out, one last time.

    1. The decision to have sex (not the physical ability, forget that) involves a range of psychological processes, i.e cognitive processes.

    2. Our cognitive abilities develop until 25.

    3. At 16, we are deemed roughly able to make decisions regarding consent, because our cognitive abilities are at the adequate level to do so. We are deemed psychologically capable of making decisions regarding sex.

    4. By that, I'm not saying we are perfectly developed cognitively, we aren't. We still continue to develop until 25, but around the age of 16 we are at a fair enough level to be worthy of making decisions. I.e, decisions about sex.

    5. Children, and young teenagers do not have the cognitive abilities to make their own decisions about sex.

    Please, try and understand this. This is so simple.
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    This is the most retarded thread I've seen on TSR
    That says a lot, just saying
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    (Original post by animeamanda1412)
    This is the most retarded thread I've seen on TSR
    That says a lot, just saying
    Lol mate look how many reps the original post got, did you even read the post?
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    It'd be useful to look at some sociological data on whether doing that helps them not molest children or makes them more likely to.
    Yeah, I admit I don't know enough about the situation to say which way it falls. And I guess it might well be different for different people. That's why I'd leave it to the psychologist to prescribe.
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    (Original post by BabyLadDarren)
    What a load of bs

    only reason child porn is illegal is due to the fact there is a market for it and potentially encourages further child molestation.

    not because it allows pedophiles to get off, also please show me evidence of it encouraging them to abuse children.
    Lol it's so obvious. Child porn is wrong on every level, whether animated or not, it is sick AF and should never be made legal. If you actually think animated child porn being legalised is a good thing then you're screwed in the head
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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    Lol mate look how many reps the original post got, did you even read the post?
    I read the main points, I'm too tired to read the whole thing, but just the "pedophiles don't have a choice" bit...
    So if your child was a victim of pedophilia...would you actually tell them "I'm sorry, but it wasn't their choice"
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    (Original post by animeamanda1412)
    I read the main points, I'm too tired to read the whole thing, but just the "pedophiles don't have a choice" bit...
    So if your child was a victim of pedophilia...would you actually tell them "I'm sorry, but it wasn't their choice"
    U clearly didn't cause I was talking about non-offending paedophiles
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    Paedophilia is absolutely wrong and disgusting. You have got to be ****ed up in the head to have those sorts of thoughts about children and people with paedophiles thoughts should be treated and given counselling, not given animated child porn and accepted into society.
 
 
 
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