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When will the religious people realize there is NO afterlife ?

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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Are you actually fcking serious? Omg.. you couldn't sound any more stereotypical if you tried. EVERY claim needs evidence. No, I don't "know that an afterlife and God exists", in fact using my rational mind I can look at the universe around me, evaluate the evidence and see that it's next to impossible for a God to exist. A 'creator' God who made the universe and then buggered off somewhere is unlikely, but the Gods of scripture are clearly false by the many contradictions and scientific impossibilities contained in the very texts.

    Why would I deny apparently knowing God existed? It may interest you to know that I actually would like a 'perfect' afterlife to exist, it would bring so much comfort to know that life doesn't end when I die on Earth. But there is no evidence to suggest that an afterlife does exist, and as you are suggesting to me that it is there the onus is on you to provide me with evidence.

    I'm sorry, but saying you don't need evidence to support something as ground-breaking as an afterlife just makes you sound like an idiot. At least most religious people attempt to provide evidence (albeit weak). But not even trying is just lazy. Why then, do you "know" that an afterlife exists? Other than being brought up in a religious environment, what made you realise that religion is correct? What if I were to claim that I can fly and lift 100 tons with one hand, without providing evidence? Am I right or wrong? What if I just "know" I can do it? Were I to seriously suggest that you'd call me a fool, yet it's just as (un)justifiable as what you are claiming to be true.
    I know that an afterlife exists because God has said that he will judge us and punish those who are guilty of breaking his law, which is all of us. We all need salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, our Saviour.

    I was not brought up in a religious environment. I realised that Christianity was correct when I heard the Gospel.

    You would be wrong if you claimed that. It doesn't matter what you think, what matters is whether or not that thought is true.
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    (Original post by Applepiex3)
    Madonna wasn't there in the beginning of time now, was she? If someone's purpose in life is waiting for a Madonna album then good for them but how does that make Madonna God? Please explain.
    Not familiar with the concept of an analogy then?

    Your purpose in life doesn't need to be religion
    Like waiting for the next Madonna album then, perhaps?

    but religion does have a purpose. If religion has thrived to exist for thousands of years, surely there is a reason.
    Of course religion has a purpose, in fact several. Providing meaning in a seemingly meaningless world was one of the first. Things like social control came later. However, religion is a man-made construct with a specific purpose. Like music. Or a hammer.
    The question was, is there a purpose to life. A very different question.

    An example from the scriptures would be the body of Ramses. I am sure you are aware of the story of Moses with the sea splitting apart. Science alone can never prove how that happened and let's ignore that unjustified matter and say that the sea never parted. In the scriptures which was written by God through Man, it talks about the bodies of those who were swept away in the sea; God said that he would preserve the body as a sign in the future. Back then people tried to search the body of Ramses however it was never found. The body was discovered thousands of years after, in 1898 in the red sea; unharmed regardless of not being preserved in any way. I found that pretty amazing.
    Hahahaha! Utter *******s!

    You are talking about one of the "scientific miracles of the Quran", aren't you? I am familiar with them.
    1. It is not known which Pharaoh is the one referred to in the Quran.
    2. The mummy of Ramses was not found in the Red Sea, it was found in a tomb in the Valley of the Kings - where Egypt's Pharaohs were usually buried.
    3. The mummy displayed the usual signs of the mummification process
    4. Ramses was crippled by arthritis by the time of his death at age 90, and examination of the body suggests that an infection from a tooth abscess was a probable cause. He did not die from drowning.

    Don't believe everything you read on those Islamic propaganda websites!
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    I know that an afterlife exists because God has said that he will judge us and punish those who are guilty of breaking his law, which is all of us. We all need salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, our Saviour.

    I was not brought up in a religious environment. I realised that Christianity was correct when I heard the Gospel.

    You would be wrong if you claimed that. It doesn't matter what you think, what matters is whether or not that thought is true.
    That's not evidence though. When did God tell us? A book written two thousand years ago by a variety of authors is not evidence, especially because it claims a number of supernatural - and quite clearly impossible - events to be true. Like I asked the other person, why isn't Homer's Iliad, or Odyssey, or any other text mentioning Gods and heroes true? They came before Christianity, so surely they are in a better position to write about what happened in the past, rather than a bunch of Abrahamic scholars several hundred years later. You would be the first to call out other religions as false, but not yours of course. All of these ancient religions (and modern ones, presumably) are wrong in your view, but your religion is right. Obviously.

    And the fact that you weren't brought up in a religious environment truly astounds me. I've read some of your other posts, you're going for IB and are clearly an intelligent guy, but honestly the fact that you can believe something written in an old book with so much counterevidence staring you in the face really leaves me clueless.

    And that last paragraph of yours is exactly what I was thinking, just apply it to your situation. It doesn't matter that you "think", or even "know", God exists, when there is so much evidence showing that this is not true. Your divine knowledge of God's existence doesn't change the fact that there is no evidence for any God (let alone yours) whatsoever.
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    (Original post by Habeebah)
    you'll be saying this when you're burning in hell too 😊😊😊

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    No we won't as Hell doesn't exist.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No we won't as Hell doesn't exist.
    Southern Rail?
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Well, one could just say god didn't want to do anything when you test.
    No, I'm referring to real-world events.
    For instance, both the Quran and Bible contain the story of Noah and the great flood. The events described therein are demonstrably untrue. Therefore any god that is claimed to have engineered those events does not exist.
    QED!
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    No, Madonna wasn't there at the beginning of time. Neither was religion or religious scripture.

    Yes, there is a reason religion has survived so long, most likely because it comforts people to believe that this life isn't the end and because it's been enforced by the state for hundreds of years. But a reason for religion surviving doesn't mean that religion itself, or anything else, has a supernatural purpose.

    Well the major Abrahamic religions still have a way to go before they catch up with the ancient religions. What about Homer's descriptions of the Greek gods? People witnessed him write the Odyssey, the Iliad etc, therefore they must be correct! Yesterday I also saw a pig fly, if I write it down on a piece of paper than that should solidify it as historic fact, right?

    Wait, so you're trusting the scripture in some places, but not about the sea parting? So, basically, what you're saying is that you, a mortal, are picking and choosing what did and what did not happen in this holy text of yours, despite people of the past 'witnessing' the sea parting? Seriously, you don't even need me to undermine your own argument. And trust me, in the year 1898 the only thing that would be left of Ramesses' body would be dust, particularly if it was in the sea.

    Edit: His body was discovered in a tomb anyway, not the sea lol
    You're right, Madonna wasn't there at the beginning of time, and neither were you. So how do you know religion didn't exist back then?
    Give me your evidence. Please provide me with this so called evidence you keep demanding.
    Not the same when the tables have turned isn't it? You keep asking me for evidence as if I created religion, why not ask the one who made it: God. Now wait, you don't know how to contact God so you are going to ask the followers who keep telling you the same thing; read the scriptures. I am keeping my argument vague to stay open minded of different perspectives, unlike your fixated opinion which you keep declaring to me.

    If its my opinion that life has a purpose, it doesn't automatically make your opinions facts.

    See this is why you're not making any sense! You are comparing Abrahamic religions to ancient religions; it goes far beyond what I have been talking about. They are modern and have more "evidence" than you even need.

    Also the body of Ramses was found in the red sea, google it. There have been many "Ramses" in the past, but we are talking about the one from the era of Moses.

    You're right, the body should be dust; yet it remains. Explain why
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No, I'm referring to real-world events.
    For instance, both the Quran and Bible contain the story of Noah and the great flood. The events described therein are demonstrably untrue. Therefore any god that is claimed to have engineered those events does not exist.
    QED!
    Could a god also not completely destroy all evidence of a great deluge?
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    (Original post by Applepiex3)
    Weird isn't it? That the scriptures passed on for thousands of years contain prophecies on what is going to happen in the future.

    Weird how they are all slowly coming true.
    None are coming true through divine wisdom. Anything that has come true has just been a lucky guess and most of the so-called prophecies are conveniently vague and ambiguous so as to mean virtually anything you want them to.

    Let's suppose there is no afterlife. You enjoy living your life believing there is none and those who want to believe can live their life knowing they have a bigger goal to attend to after death.
    No one's stopping others from believing in an afterlife.

    Weird how similar all three Abrahamic religions are and how they believe in the concept of heaven and hell. Weird how in all three religions they are told that those who refuse to believe are blinded and will never believe
    There's nothing weird, spooky or mysterious about it. They're similar precisely because Christianity is a spin-off of Judaism and because Islam is a spin-off of Christianity, thus they are going to contain many common and similar concepts.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    That's not evidence though. When did God tell us? A book written two thousand years ago by a variety of authors is not evidence, especially because it claims a number of supernatural - and quite clearly impossible - events to be true. Like I asked the other person, why isn't Homer's Iliad, or Odyssey, or any other text mentioning Gods and heroes true? They came before Christianity, so surely they are in a better position to write about what happened in the past, rather than a bunch of Abrahamic scholars several hundred years later. You would be the first to call out other religions as false, but not yours of course. All of these ancient religions (and modern ones, presumably) are wrong in your view, but your religion is right. Obviously.

    And the fact that you weren't brought up in a religious environment truly astounds me. I've read some of your other posts, you're going for IB and are clearly an intelligent guy, but honestly the fact that you can believe something written in an old book with so much counterevidence staring you in the face really leaves me clueless.

    And that last paragraph of yours is exactly what I was thinking, just apply it to your situation. It doesn't matter that you "think", or even "know", God exists, when there is so much evidence showing that this is not true. Your divine knowledge of God's existence doesn't change the fact that there is no evidence for Him whatsoever.
    I apologise for sounding so confident and unhelpful in my last explanation. I shouldn't just take alternative theories and throw them in the bin, I should instead aim to understand those views and provide reasons for my own beliefs in the future.

    My belief is not a fact in the same way that gravity is as there is no solid evidence that I can give you. However, there comes a point where I have so much faith in God and in Jesus Christ that I have to reject the other belief systems because they make no sense to me. As much as I believe that other religions are false, I can perfectly understand why people of other religions may believe that their religion is the only true one. I just feel that Christianity answered the questions I had so well and it just fits together so well in my head compared to other religions, including the religion I was brought up in. I definitely don't feel that every non-Christian is lying through their teeth but I do have confidence in my belief and beige that it is the truth. The concept of sin and salvation in Christianity made so much sense to me.

    In terms of the evidence I feel points towards there being a God, my main reason is that the world is so complicated and this can be seen in DNA, in cells and in atoms. I just do not see how all these things just came into being without a Creator. Of course, there is the chance that it was all just made out of nothing but I feel that the existence of a creator is the best explanation.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Southern Rail?
    Lol
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    (Original post by Aaliyah Saleh)
    yeah but thats your opinion just wait on this life and you wil realize there is life after death,
    And that is just your opinion.
    However, all the available scientific evidence suggests that the consciousness (or "soul" ) is simply a function of the physical brain, and when the brain is altered (ither physically or chemically), consciousness is altered, and as the brain dies, all electical and chemical signs of consciousness vanish.

    So, while poth positions may be opinions, one has a measure of scientific evidence to support it while the other has none.

    this life is a mere test to judge where you will be placed in the afterlife for example
    But god, being infallible omniscient, already knows where we will all go, so why does he need to test us? And why is the test so random? And why does the "testing" seem to depend mostly on where you were born?

    and watch cant start just piecing itself together and working on its own someone is behind this revolutianry machinery
    Ah, Paley's Watch.
    But the natural explanations for the universe, life, etc, do not require complex mechanisms to assemble themselves. Evolution is a fact, and natural selection is an explanation for it that works. There is a mountain of evidence to support it.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Not familiar with the concept of an analogy then?

    Like waiting for the next Madonna album then, perhaps?

    Of course religion has a purpose, in fact several. Providing meaning in a seemingly meaningless world was one of the first. Things like social control came later. However, religion is a man-made construct with a specific purpose. Like music. Or a hammer.
    The question was, is there a purpose to life. A very different question.

    Hahahaha! Utter *******s!

    You are talking about one of the "scientific miracles of the Quran", aren't you? I am familiar with them.
    1. It is not known which Pharaoh is the one referred to in the Quran.
    2. The mummy of Ramses was not found in the Red Sea, it was found in a tomb in the Valley of the Kings - where Egypt's Pharaohs were usually buried.
    3. The mummy displayed the usual signs of the mummification process
    4. Ramses was crippled by arthritis by the time of his death at age 90, and examination of the body suggests that an infection from a tooth abscess was a probable cause. He did not die from drowning.

    Don't believe everything you read on those Islamic propaganda websites!
    So all of the sudden, my analogy from before was incorrect and yours is right?

    Religion is man made and so is everything in this world right? I bet you created those mountains? And your uncle created the stars?

    I am very well aware of the facts you have presented to me and my lack of understanding for using such a bad example. Did you not consider the possibility of the body being found earlier than 1898, after the era of Moses and put under the mummification process then for discovery in the tomb? You have no evidence to prove that it couldn't have been.

    There is proof of however that the body had been in the sea since the decomposed body itself contained a high percentage of salt content in the body.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    "Everything exists for a purpose" - says who? You? By assuming that everything is here for a reason you're already entering the debate with a biased point of view. And I don't think it is a coincidence that religion provides 'purpose' in life, in fact it's actually rather inevitable. When an intelligent mind develops it wants to believe it developed for a reason, hence it created one: religion. There is no evidence to suggest that there is an inherent purpose for anything in the universe, least of all a group of highly evolved apes. Humanity are a speck of dust on a universal scale, we are not important, we have no purpose. As soon as I see evidence contrary to this I will reassess my position, but none has yet materialised.

    And "no one could have made an afterlife up"... really? Are you actually proposing that? People have thought of far more imaginative things than simply living on after death. Again, this is also inevitable for an intelligent mind trying to come to terms with its own mortality. And once again, for one last time, with no evidence to the contrary there is no reason to do anything more than theorise in an afterlife, unfailingly believing something you can't prove is ridiculous.

    "Thousands of years old text refers to us and the civilisation man has built", umm what? Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. A text, written by men a couple of thousand years ago, refers to men and their civilisation? I thought that would be a given...
    I did mention that what I had written was an opinion, not a fact. So obviously I was going to be biased.

    The ideology of purpose differs from one person to another. If you feel that life has no purpose and there is no proof of what happens after death, then that is fine! I am not trying to impose religion on you, just sharing my own religious knowledge here.

    You are asking me for an example of from the scriptures. Well here is an example.
    "And to Sulayman We gave the fiercely blowing wind, speeding at his command toward the land that We had blessed. And We had full knowledge of everything."
    And We gave Sulayman power over the wind-a month's journey in the morning and a month in the afternoon... "

    Made no sense in the thousands of years ago and wouldn't have made any sense until now. The text refers to modern wind technology and the concept of changing a months journey into one that lasts from morning to afternoon. It is referring to aeroplanes. This is only one example of modern technology being mentioned thousands of years ago, there are many others.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    None are coming true through divine wisdom. Anything that has come true has just been a lucky guess and most of the so-called prophecies are conveniently vague and ambiguous so as to mean virtually anything you want it to.

    No one's stopping others from believing in an afterlife.

    There's nothing weird, spooky or mysterious about it. They're similar precisely because Christianity is a spin-off of Judaism and because Islam is a spin-off of Christianity, thus they are going to contain many common and similar concepts.
    I guess I am also going to start making lucky guesses for what is going to happen in a million years
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    (Original post by Aaliyah Saleh)
    just do this go on google and type " things written in the quaran that science knew after" just do it and then come back after you read a few articles
    Tell you what. You pick your best one, and I'll explain why it's nonsense. (We've already dealt with "Pharaoh's Mummy")
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    (Original post by Applepiex3)
    You're right, Madonna wasn't there at the beginning of time, and neither were you. So how do you know religion didn't exist back then?
    Give me your evidence. Please provide me with this so called evidence you keep demanding.
    Not the same when the tables have turned isn't it? You keep asking me for evidence as if I created religion, why not ask the one who made it: God. Now wait, you don't know how to contact God so you are going to ask the followers who keep telling you the same thing; read the scriptures. I am keeping my argument vague to stay open minded of different perspectives, unlike your fixated opinion which you keep declaring to me.

    If its my opinion that life has a purpose, it doesn't automatically make your opinions facts.

    See this is why you're not making any sense! You are comparing Abrahamic religions to ancient religions; it goes far beyond what I have been talking about. They are modern and have more "evidence" than you even need.

    Also the body of Ramses was found in the red sea, google it. There have been many "Ramses" in the past, but we are talking about the one from the era of Moses.

    You're right, the body should be dust; yet it remains. Explain why
    Religion is a human invention, and humans didn't exist at the dawn of time. Ergo religion has not existed since the dawn of time. It has, in fact, existed for a mere geological blink in the grand scheme of things.

    Evidence for what? God not existing? I can give you plenty: firstly the scripture claims things that are scientific impossibilities (even you said you don't think the Red Sea was parted, and you're still yet to refute a single point I mentioned in my post - rather than dodging what I'm saying answer my points directly). Secondly, the scripture contradicts itself on numerous occasions. The values promoted in the New Testament are poles apart from the vengeful murderer that is the God of the Old Testament, which really undermines its credibility. Thirdly, and most importantly, there have been NO direct observations of God in history. The only occasions where humans have come into 'contact' with God are personal experiences, like God 'speaking' to someone in their head or giving them a 'vision', which aside from there being no evidence that this was from God, completely ignores the fact that the human brain is brilliant at conjuring up delusions. People dream every night, the brain formulates an image of the outside world based on our senses (and isn't always accurate), there are plenty of logical and scientifically supported reasons for a person apparently experiencing contact from God. Fourthly, evolution is pretty much irrefutable given the mountain of evidence and that completely undermines the whole idea promoted in religion that humans are made in the image of God (well unless God originally looked like a single-cells organism, and then changed over time into an ape and then into us lol). Evolution can also explain most other human behaviours that are often attributed to religion, such as morals, and even religion itself.

    Now it's your turn. Give me evidence that God does exist. Real evidence, not some "it's written in the scripture" BS. If you don't do this in your next post I'll assume you have none. There is no evidence whatsoever that the scripture is in any way correct, has been shown on numerous occasions to be historically and scientifically inaccurate if taken literally, and if your 'interpret' it in your own way then there's going to be thousands of versions of the same religion so it's impossible to ascertain which one is the correct one. Given that fact, it's likely that none of these interpretations are correct. They're all as evidence-less as each other.

    My opinion isn't fixated, my 'opinion' is nothing more than looking at the evidence available, and it all points to the non-existence of God. If some ground-breaking evidence in favour of God is discovered then I'll start believing in him, but there is none.

    I don't care whether it's your 'opinion' that life has a purpose. What do you not seem to comprehend about the fact that just because you believe something to be true it doesn't necessarily mean it is. I believe I can fly. Does that make that statement true? Not a single thing in this universe has pointed towards some divine 'purpose' for life, religion or anything, so your 'opinion' that life has a purpose is irrelevent.

    Well of course I'm comparing Abrahamic religions to ancient ones, there's no more or less evidence in favour of one over the other. In fact, you could argue that the ancient ones are more likely to be correct as they were able to observe the goings-on of life long before Judaism, Christianity or Islam were even conceived of. Why is Zeus less likely to exist than the Abrahmic God? Ancient religions also don't claim clear BS like God being omniscient, or omnipotent (which have glaring contradictions in themselves), so if anything the Greek pantheon is more credible than the 'modern' Gods.

    No, the body of Ramesses was found in a tomb mummified. That's Ramesses II by the way, the one often said to have been Pharoh during the time of Moses. But let's talk about this, shall we? Firstly, there is a relative scholarly consensus that Moses is a figure of legend, not history, to begin with. Secondly, the Qur'an does not mention a specific Pharoh. Ramesses was used in the Disney (I think it was Disney?) version of the story of Moses, though, I'll give you that! So, basically, the story of Moses is as un-historically accurate as Noah's Ark is.

    The body should be dust. It wasn't Ramesses' body. As I said above, it was found mummified in a tomb. No human body could survive untouched floating in the sea for 3000 years, so it clearly wasn't Ramesses.
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    (Original post by Aaliyah Saleh)
    bruh evolved apes science couldnt find a logical explanation so they made this up we aint fukin monkeys
    No, we aren't monkeys, we are humans. But both humans and monkeys share a common ancestor millions of years ago (that was not a human or a monkey, but a different species).
    Look, your inability to understand how evolution works does not mean it doesn't work - just like the 5 year old's inability to understand how his iPad works doesn't mean that it stops working.

    Baffling that people would still rather adapt reality to fit their beliefs, rather than adapting their beliefs to fit reality.
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    (Original post by scaredofdeath)
    There is NO life after death.
    We are our bodies , more precisely our brains.
    There is no such thing as a "soul".
    There is no such thing as "heaven" " hell" .
    These are all inventions of the religious people.
    No one is going to reborn , we only live once.
    have you died before to know this? There is no evidence to support your claim.
 
 
 
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