if there was an election tomorow

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The "real man" shines through when preaching to the converted, he's already shown he's weak as soon as he has to defend his position. It's easy to preach when people hang on every word, it's not so easy when you need to convince people and think on your feet.

    The irony of saying he's a nice guy is that more people would use nasty to describe him than May.

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    Firstly it took me a bit of convincing last year before I began to give him my support. I don't think it is fair to basically call those of us who support Jeremy Corbyn mindless sheep, lapping up his every word as if it is gospel.

    Secondly, to call him weak is staggering. This is a man who has taken everything thrown at him by the media, the opposition and even his own party with dignity and has acted with class. He has not lowered himself to the level of those who have threw personal attacks his way by responding in kind and he has not taken the easy route of putting his principles on the backburner in order to have an easy time of it.

    If you have evidence to back up your claim of being seen as more nasty than May or of Jeremy being nasty then please do share.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Interestingly i actually feel that it's the television debates which will utterly destroy him. As nice as you think he is, he'll have to go on TV and admit to being a republican, to not valuing the union or our overseas territories, to having sympathy for Russia, for being unwilling to fight ISIS.. these are fundamental things which i believe will ensure the electorate won't care whether he's nice or whether neoliberalism is bad.. they'll see on the one hand a PM who has done a reasonable job and on the other hand they'll see an extemist who wants their queen and the Falklands gone.
    I respect your opinion and the truth is neither of us can know for sure how he will fare during the debates with the public. Equally neither of us can know for sure, by the time the debates are here, whether or not May will be regarded as a "reasonable" PM.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    I respect your opinion and the truth is neither of us can know for sure how he will fare during the debates with the public. Equally neither of us can know for sure, by the time the debates are here, whether or not May will be regarded as a "reasonable" PM.
    I'd have more sympathy for your position if the Tories had not just averaged the largest monthly incumbent lead since 1998. It's hard to see what May could do that would not just damage her lead, but reverse it to the point that Corbyn could win.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    Firstly it took me a bit of convincing last year before I began to give him my support. I don't think it is fair to basically call those of us who support Jeremy Corbyn mindless sheep, lapping up his every word as if it is gospel.

    Secondly, to call him weak is staggering. This is a man who has taken everything thrown at him by the media, the opposition and even his own party with dignity and has acted with class. He has not lowered himself to the level of those who have threw personal attacks his way by responding in kind and he has not taken the easy route of putting his principles on the backburner in order to have an easy time of it.

    If you have evidence to back up your claim of being seen as more nasty than May or of Jeremy being nasty then please do share.

    That is not a position an election is won from, nor is being 15-20 points behind where you should be in the polls in terms of lead, nor is having his low approval ratings, he is well outside the election winning zone on the graph of VI vs Approval.

    As for you taking some convincing, there are for the most part two types of people tho go to rallies: the converted (or nearly converted) and the hecklers.
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    [QUOTE=Rakas21;67760730]I'd have more sympathy for your position if the Tories had not just averaged the largest monthly incumbent lead since 1998. It's hard to see what May could do that would not just damage her lead, but reverse it to the point that.

    In my opinion this has been more down to the fact that Labour haven't looked like an effective opposition for some time with all the in-fighting and the lack of support from the PLP, rather than anything good the Tories have done. If the PLP back Jeremy this time around, and they begin to look like a stable party again I think this will change. If a clear, well thought out alternative to austerity is put out there, I can see many going for it, I know from personal experience and from others around me that we are sick of being punished for the 2008 recession.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)

    That is not a position an election is won from, nor is being 15-20 points behind where you should be in the polls in terms of lead, nor is having his low approval ratings, he is well outside the election winning zone on the graph of VI vs Approval.

    As for you taking some convincing, there are for the most part two types of people tho go to rallies: the converted (or nearly converted) and the hecklers.
    Yeah I agree with you, based on that polling, if the election was held tomorrow it would be highly unlikely Jeremy would be elected. There is still plenty of time for that to change, if the PLP get on board with him this time around I do think that there will be a drastic change to those figures in as little as six months.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Never mind his long history of dodgy acquaintances getting dissected in the press come election time.
    If there was anything really substantial in what you claim, it would have made the headlines instead of the suits he wears.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    If there was anything really substantial in what you claim, it would have made the headlines instead of the suits he wears.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-antisemitism

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/jeremy...rnalist-2016-6

    He's a hypocrite hiding behind a facade. As long as someone is anti-Western and/or anti-Israeli they'll do in his eyes, it doesn't matter how abhorrent they are.

    All this was before he was leader and the "smear campaign" started(you aren't smearing anyone discussing things they've actually said and done).
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    Probably labour
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    Yeah I agree with you, based on that polling, if the election was held tomorrow it would be highly unlikely Jeremy would be elected. There is still plenty of time for that to change, if the PLP get on board with him this time around I do think that there will be a drastic change to those figures in as little as six months.
    Labour were behind in 85 from 89 polls before the referendum and the PLP no confidence vote. Corbyn is the worst polling opposition leader since polling began which is precisely why they want rid of him.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-antisemitism

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/jeremy...rnalist-2016-6

    He's a hypocrite hiding behind a facade. As long as someone is anti-Western and/or anti-Israeli they'll do in his eyes, it doesn't matter how abhorrent they are.

    All this was before he was leader and the "smear campaign" started(you aren't smearing anyone discussing things they've actually said and done).
    All I've seen is examples of Jeremy doing what he openly admits is his first response to resolving conflict, trying to open up a dialogue in order to try and come up with a political solution, this is surely the best way to go about things rather than war. The guardian article even states in it, they do not believe he has a anti-semitic bone in his body, he has been an MP for over 30 years, if there was anything substantial to use regarding his views it would be common knowledge by now. Politicians and world leaders are forever having meetings with dictators and questionable characters, it does not mean they share the same beliefs.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Labour were behind in 85 from 89 polls before the referendum and the PLP no confidence vote. Corbyn is the worst polling opposition leader since polling began which is precisely why they want rid of him.
    Members of the PLP were coming out with soundbites bashing Corbyn almost on a weekly basis, as we all know, soundbites have a habit of catching on in the minds of people. This added fuel to the fire of the constant media bashing Jeremy was receiving, it was even regarded as bullying at one point because it was getting that harsh. It was a relentless campaign by the media, mud sticks, it will take a bit of time and the PLP showing some support to undo the damage. I think the way Jeremy has handled it all has gone a long way, he has showed absolute class throughout.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    Yeah I agree with you, based on that polling, if the election was held tomorrow it would be highly unlikely Jeremy would be elected. There is still plenty of time for that to change, if the PLP get on board with him this time around I do think that there will be a drastic change to those figures in as little as six months.
    If you want to believe that will happen you can, but when the inherent socialism is so much lower than is needed for Corbyn to do well I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, further if there really is the unity you propose then it will almost certainly be with a split of the moderates, at which point Corbyn's Labour starts having to fend off the splinter group in terms of the popular vote, and all the meaningful media that traditionally supports Labour will be backing the splinter group.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    All I've seen is examples of Jeremy doing what he openly admits is his first response to resolving conflict, trying to open up a dialogue in order to try and come up with a political solution, this is surely the best way to go about things rather than war. The guardian article even states in it, they do not believe he has a anti-semitic bone in his body, he has been an MP for over 30 years, if there was anything substantial to use regarding his views it would be common knowledge by now. Politicians and world leaders are forever having meetings with dictators and questionable characters, it does not mean they share the same beliefs.
    How do you justify him being paid to appear on Iranian TV after they were banned from the UK by Ofcom for airing forced confessions?

    Or writing to the CofE defending people who publicly blame the Jews for 9/11?

    Or describing Raed Salah as an "honoured citizen"?

    The Guardian article also says his excuses don't stand up. As I said in my other post, anyone anti-Israeli will do.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    Members of the PLP were coming out with soundbites bashing Corbyn almost on a weekly basis, as we all know, soundbites have a habit of catching on in the minds of people. This added fuel to the fire of the constant media bashing Jeremy was receiving, it was even regarded as bullying at one point because it was getting that harsh. It was a relentless campaign by the media, mud sticks, it will take a bit of time and the PLP showing some support to undo the damage. I think the way Jeremy has handled it all has gone a long way, he has showed absolute class throughout.
    Absolute class?

    He's virtually condoning the deselection of anyone who dares to disagree with him. MPs weren't living under police protection before he became leader.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Most large parties are like that in a FPTP system. Cameron and Bone for example have very little in common.

    Unfortunately for yourselves, Miliband's £3 membership idea was clearly an incredibly stupid act and instead of attracting those not previously engaged in politics, it's allowed in hordes of ex-members and radical socialists.
    That is mythology. In both elections Corbyn won convincingly with all categories of Labour members. Corbyn's victories have not been due to entryism.

    You have to remember that the mainstream media, both left and right, has it in for Corbyn, for obvious reasons. You have to be very sure you are examining the reality of the situation.

    I'm in no doubt that organised entryists have come into the Labour Party (and I agree the £3 thing was an awful idea), but the vast majority will have been normal left-wing people like myself, who wouldn't even have contemplated the idea of joining a political party unless there was someone to vote for. Every time there is an actual article going behind the scenes even with hardcore Corbyn activists they always turn out to just be normal people.

    Indeed I will probably vote for the Lib Dems because staying in the EU is so important for me. And I am to the right of Corbyn. It's just that the Tories and the rest of the political culture is so right-wing that you have to have someone pulling left properly. I also support reselections: in this climate, it's better to have 200 socialist MPs than 20 socialists and 250 moderates, maybe even if the latter are in a majority.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    That is mythology. In both elections Corbyn won convincingly with all categories of Labour members. Corbyn's victories have not been due to entryism.

    You have to remember that the mainstream media, both left and right, has it in for Corbyn, for obvious reasons. You have to be very sure you are examining the reality of the situation.

    I'm in no doubt that organised entryists have come into the Labour Party (and I agree the £3 thing was an awful idea), but the vast majority will have been normal left-wing people like myself, who wouldn't even have contemplated the idea of joining a political party unless there was someone to vote for. Every time there is an actual article going behind the scenes even with hardcore Corbyn activists they always turn out to just be normal people.

    Indeed I will probably vote for the Lib Dems because staying in the EU is so important for me. And I am to the right of Corbyn. It's just that the Tories and the rest of the political culture is so right-wing that you have to have someone pulling left properly. I also support reselections: in this climate, it's better to have 200 socialist MPs than 20 socialists and 250 moderates, maybe even if the latter are in a majority.
    Had no idea Europe was so important to you. Any particular reason?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    they'll see on the one hand a PM who has done a reasonable job and on the other hand they'll see an extemist who wants their queen and the Falklands gone.
    The Tories recently stole Corbyn's policy on the Falklands (that is, to talk to the Argies rather than waste money on gunboats). This of course met with outraged howls of silence from the tabloid press.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    The Tories recently stole Corbyn's policy on the Falklands (that is, to talk to the Argies rather than waste money on gunboats). This of course met with outraged howls of silence from the tabloid press.
    The Falklands is a non-issue anyway. The Argies can barely afford fuel and spare parts for their navy.
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    [QUOTE=Jammy Duel;67761496]If you want to believe that will happen you can, but when the inherent socialism is so much lower than is needed for Corbyn to do well I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, further if there really is the unity you propose then it will almost certainly be with a split of the moderates, at which point Corbyn's Labour starts having to fend off the splinter group in terms of the popular vote, and all the meaningful media that traditionally supports Labour will be backing the splinter groups

    I do want to believe and I will, Corbyn is offering an alternative to the unfair austerity measures that have been placed on us, I believe when it is clearly stated what his alternative is you might be surprised how many will get behind it. It is a real struggle out there for millions of people, if there is hope clearly offered by a man pretty much everyone agrees, whether they like him or not, is the most honest politician in the country, I can see him gathering quite alot of support. I'm hoping for the best case scenario regarding the PLP, which is here is no split and they show support for the leader. They don't have to come out praising him, or agree with everything he says but the least they can do is to top running to the media every five minutes to stick the boot in.
 
 
 
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