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Why you are an atheist?

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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Science does prove stuff.It has been proven that the earth is a sphere.It has been proven that the earth goes around the sun.It is proven that germs cause disease.If you are going to be pedantic you could say maybe our brain and senses are fooling us.But that is being utterly pedantic to the point of being a bore.At some point it becomes appropriate to say that these things have been proven otherwise the word loses all meaning and you may as well just abandon the entire enterprise.We can say that the earth being a sphere is never going to be disproved.To say otherwise is just being pedantic.
    errr to be pedantic is to be scientific.

    Science is concerned with details. Have you heard of epistemology?
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Science does prove stuff.It has been proven that the earth is a sphere.It has been proven that the earth goes around the sun.It is proven that germs cause disease.If you are going to be pedantic you could say maybe our brain and senses are fooling us.But that is being utterly pedantic to the point of being a bore.At some point it becomes appropriate to say that these things have been proven otherwise the word loses all meaning and you may as well just abandon the entire enterprise.We can say that the earth being a sphere is never going to be disproved.To say otherwise is just being pedantic.
    You can say philosophy is 'pedantic' all you like, it doesn't make it any less true!

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    (Original post by _gcx)
    I never contested that. Religious scripture does exhibit some of the scientific beliefs believed at the time of writing. Science cannot be compared to religious scripture on the evidence front. The Bible offers little explanation and little supporting evidence to allow people to make mental deductions. It compensates for this by frowning upon anyone who "dares" contest the views. Religion, in fact, often frowns upon free-thinking, so that one may not question the belief system and thus draw power away from religious organisations, such as the church.
    I've not even attempted to bring religion into it, so all that is practically irrelevant. What I did say is that there is proof of things that the bible said apparently happened at so-and-so a place and there are remnants in those places from the event. So there are bits of it that have turned out to be true, just as there are science theories that have been proven true. Yet, neither the existence of a God or the whole Big Bing Theory have been proven, so to me it makes no sense to wholeheartedly believe either of them. I see/hear a lot of people saying "Anyone intelligent couldn't possibly believe in the existence of a God" yet to me they're no more intelligent for putting their faith in something that's just theory. I refuse to put my belief in either until one of them is proven beyond doubt, which may never happen in my lifetime, in which case so be it, doesn't have any significant effect on my day-to-day life.
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    (Original post by Bros R Us)
    er bro wot u on about. there's not equal evidence for god than against. where is your evidence for him and what stuff in the bible has been proven den? :hmmm:
    Talk to me in proper English and I might converse with you.
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    (Original post by udeyomydays)
    errr to be pedantic is to be scientific.

    Science is concerned with details. Have you heard of epistemology?
    Yes but there is a point where you have to accept certain things as true.For example I have to accept that I exist otherwise its illogical to speculate about anything else.You cant just dismiss everything as our brains decieving us.Of course they could be.I could be just a brain in a jar.But if we accept that as true then we may as well just give up on science.We may as well just not bother finding stuff out.We have to accept certain things as true.To do otherwise is illogical.
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    For all the replies on here about the negative aspects of religion, a few facts are often overlooked in my opinion. It is a fact that not a single one of us had a say in what environment he/she was born into and the natural talents he/she inherited from their parents. It is also a fact that we will all die someday (depressing i know )

    As humans we are unique in the animal world in that we have been burdened with the awareness of our impending death. Whilst many find comfort in dismissing the inevitable by saying something like "i will go back into nothingness" "it will be painless" etc.. etc.. Others will find comfort in a higher being. If we came out of nothing once before is it all that ludicrous to suggest it might happen again ? (i.e. a resurrection?)

    There will always be people in the world who will look to find a purpose or reason for living. There will always be those who ask questions regarding their life here on earth. I know that not everyone cares or sees the point inthis, however we all deal with life differently.

    "Why do i have to die?" or "To what ends should i strive for?" "What role was i born to fullfill, What advantage does the awareness of my death give me?"

    How do we account for the massive amount of luck in our lives? It is true that for a lot of people religion has been the opium for these exestential questions. It is just that in this day and age its very easy to dismiss religion whilst forgetting the importance of faith.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    You can say philosophy is 'pedantic' all you like, it doesn't make it any less true!

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    Philosophy is just speculation.None of it has any evidence to back it up and it just goes around in circles and nobody gets anywhere.Its certainly not evidence for god.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    What is the evidence against God (a non-personal Einstein God)?
    Things like the Earth clearly being over 6000 years old, the fact that evolution is pretty much indisputably true invalidates the whole shaped-in-Gods image thing, the fact that the Bible contains scientific impossibilities such as walking on water, things like this just invalidate the entire thing (obviously using Christianity as an example because it's the one I know the most about, but other religions have similar inconsistencies and scientific errors). Maybe I worded my original statement poorly, because there is a mountain of evidence against religious scripture. As for the being 'God' itself, I've already identified that by its very nature it's impossible to definitively prove whether or not he exists if God is indeed beyond our plane of existence, or whatever you want to call it. But that's the very thing, there's just simply no evidence whatsoever in favour of a godly being existing. Religious people simply look at things they don't understand (or don't want to understand), or things that seem apparently 'designed', and simply ascribe it to God. Yet none of this provides evidence that the being itself exists, that's just speculation that a God-like being might have existed at some point in time based on what it left behind (the universe). So, to summarise: a mountain of evidence against scripture, and simply an immense lack of evidence for the being itself, whether as a God of scripture or just some random creator.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Yes but there is a point where you have to accept certain things as true.For example I have to accept that I exist otherwise its illogical to speculate about anything else.You cant just dismiss everything as our brains decieving us.Of course they could be.I could be just a brain in a jar.But if we accept that as true then we may as well just give up on science.We may as well just not bother finding stuff out.We have to accept certain things as true.To do otherwise is illogical.
    Precisely. You admit yourself that 'they could be'. There is no way of knowing that we perceive the world accurately, or that the outside world even exists. You make these assumptions not based on any evidence or logic, merely faith. Thus science will always rely to some degree on faith.

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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Yes but there is a point where you have to accept certain things as true.For example I have to accept that I exist otherwise its illogical to speculate about anything else.You cant just dismiss everything as our brains deceiving us.Of course they could be.I could be just a brain in a jar.But if we accept that as true then we may as well just give up on science.We may as well just not bother finding stuff out.We have to accept certain things as true.To do otherwise is illogical.
    I dont think you will like philosophy all that much then :P

    But in all honesty i think in the majority of these discussions, the comments are against religion (the main religions currently in the news for example) as opposed to faith.

    As long as someone leaves me be and does his own thing then i see nothing wrong with someone believing in an after life, or in a God etc..

    There is so much that we simply do not know and will not know. That doesn't simply mean we should just give up and not try but that there will always be things that are out of our grasp. Some humility will not go amiss.

    To believe in an after life and a GOD and also to have a belief in science and all that it can teach us, the two things are not mutually exclusive in my opinion
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Things like the Earth clearly being over 6000 years old, the fact that evolution is pretty much indisputably true invalidates the whole shaped-in-Gods image thing, the fact that the Bible contains scientific impossibilities such as walking on water, things like this just invalidate the entire thing (obviously using Christianity as an example because it's the one I know the most about, but other religions have similar inconsistencies and scientific errors). Maybe I worded my original statement poorly, because there is a mountain of evidence against religious scripture. As for the being 'God' itself, I've already identified that by its very nature it's impossible to definitively prove whether or not he exists if God is indeed beyond our plane of existence, or whatever you want to call it. But that's the very thing, there's just simply no evidence whatsoever in favour of a godly being existing. Religious people simply look at things they don't understand (or don't want to understand), or things that seem apparently 'designed', and simply ascribe it to God. Yet none of this provides evidence that the being itself exists, that's just speculation that a God-like being might have existed at some point in time based on what it left behind (the universe). So, to summarise: a mountain of evidence against scripture, and simply an immense lack of evidence for the being itself, whether as a God of scripture or just some random creator.
    Oh right. I might have misunderstood.
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    (Original post by udeyomydays)
    For all the replies on here about the negative aspects of religion, a few facts are often overlooked in my opinion. It is a fact that not a single one of us had a say in what environment he/she was born into and the natural talents he/she inherited from their parents. It is also a fact that we will all die someday (depressing i know )

    As humans we are unique in the animal world in that we have been burdened with the awareness of our impending death. Whilst many find comfort in dismissing the inevitable by saying something like "i will go back into nothingness" "it will be painless" etc.. etc.. Others will find comfort in a higher being. If we came out of nothing once before is it all that ludicrous to suggest it might happen again ? (i.e. a resurrection?)

    There will always be people in the world who will look to find a purpose or reason for living. There will always be those who ask questions regarding their life here on earth. I know that not everyone cares or sees the point inthis, however we all deal with life differently.

    "Why do i have to die?" or "To what ends should i strive for?" "What role was i born to fullfill, What advantage does the awareness of my death give me?"

    How do we account for the massive amount of luck in our lives? It is true that for a lot of people religion has been the opium for these exestential questions. It is just that in this day and age its very easy to dismiss religion whilst forgetting the importance of faith.
    What do you mean by "forgetting the importance of faith"? Why is faith important in any way whatsoever? And I think you're mistaking a random process where atoms gained sentience (and obviously science is still trying to uncover how this actually happened, when science doesn't know it asks questions rather than just ascribing all the unknowns to a higher power) with resurrection. A universe can form from nothing (see 'A Universe from Nothing' by Laurence M. Krauss) but that's very, very different to the concept of resurrection. Just because humans are unsatisfied with death and want to have a purpose, that doesn't mean that there is life after death or that we actually do have a purpose. Wishful thinking doesn't make something true.
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    (Original post by Bros R Us)
    so ur using that as an excuse to not reply :lol:. clearly because you know what you said was a load of baloney :toofunny:
    Yh das it fam... or maybe it's because I don't have my head up my own ******** and actually read things.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    Precisely. You admit yourself that 'they could be'. There is no way of knowing that we perceive the world accurately, or that the outside world even exists. You make these assumptions not based on any evidence or logic, merely faith. Thus science will always rely to some degree on faith.

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    They could be but its not that likely.Mermaids and unicorns could exist on another planet but there is no reason to suppose they do.The logical conclusion is not to conclude that unicorns exist until further notice is it? The faith that our brains are telling us the truth about the world is a different kind of faith to religous faith.Religous faith is based upon claims around holy books for which there is no evidence at all.Science is based upon the evidence that our brains tell us is true about the world around us.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    What do you mean by "forgetting the importance of faith"? Why is faith important in any way whatsoever? And I think you're mistaking a random process where atoms gained sentience (and obviously science is still trying to uncover how this actually happened, when science doesn't know it asks questions rather than just ascribing all the unknowns to a higher power) with resurrection. A universe can form from nothing (see 'A Universe from Nothing' by Laurence M. Krauss) but that's very, very different to the concept of resurrection. Just because humans are unsatisfied with death and want to have a purpose, that doesn't mean that there is life after death or that we actually do have a purpose. Wishful thinking doesn't make something true.
    Lol, have you read "The denial of death" by Ernest Becker?

    My point is that for a lot of people faith in an after life brings them comfort; that there is more to life than just our ephemeral existence on this planet. That our very being isnt just one big luck draw. That we arent just simply animals and that consciousness is an "evolutionary by-product"

    Accepting Physicalism means that all emotions including happiness, grief, love, appreciation for music etc. are all just physical reactions. Once we know the cause, why work for it at all since drugs would have the same effect (not recommending it). Also some of the other implications are terrifying, lets not forget that society/morals/ethics are also non-physical. Why does anything matter If there are no overarching goals, all subsequent things become inherently pointless as well. Nihilism is a hard pill to swallow.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    I'm not. I think you're just as bad putting your entire belief in the theories of scientists as those that have a faith and religion. You're both choosing to believe in something that hasn't been proven. I put myself in the agnostic category - I acknowledge that either side has their own amount of evidence and same lack of actual proof and either could be true (or false), therefore I remain open to either idea, i.e. I believe that there could be a God, but I won't actually believe that there is or isn't until I see concrete proof, which there isn't or people wouldn't be debating the topic and picking their side.
    I also put myself in the agnostic category now, although I did define myself as an atheist.

    I have learnt that a theory can lead you to the truth, but the theory itself can be disproved. This made me question everything I ever believed in.
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    (Original post by Bros R Us)
    wait wait wait....hold up right there :hand:

    why is faith important then when it's blind belief in something that has no evidence ????
    nahhh fam you are gassed. Re-read what i wrote innit

    -_-
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    (Original post by Daniel Atieh)
    Two kinds of people. I just want to hear your views.
    Don't take me wrong, but I am excited to read about it.
    I'm not an atheist because I don't want to believe in God, more because I can't make myself believe it.

    Whilst I'd like to believe there's something beyond this, some great purpose, I just can't force myself to believe in a man in the sky who somehow controls every part of the universe. Also where would this God come from? If he made all, what began him? Whilst science also doesn't yet provide the answer to what started the big bang, I find atoms much more tangible than spiritual beings.

    Too much of religion has been disproven for me to believe in something like The Bible. We know creationism is invalid, we know the Earth is more than 6,000 years old. How can we believe such a book when half of what is written in it we already know to be wrong?

    Plus there's the historical nature of religion. For centuries religion has been used as an excuse to control people. Confession was created to excuse crusaders who murdered in battle, so they would still go to heaven whilst 'fighting the good fight'. The entire protestant religion was created so a man could chuck another wife.The rules of religion are chopped and changed so readily according to what leaders want out of it.

    There is no beautiful karma in the world. Children starve to death whilst fat cats sit in million pound mansions, good people get disease, evil people life fulfilling lives. Why would a God let good people suffer so much? I know there's the argument of free will, but nobody chooses the socioeconomic class they're born in to or their health. There's the argument of karma in the afterlife, but how is it fair that these people suffer so much in this life? why are they punished for living a good life?

    I wish I could believe in a great grand plan, and that we will all get the after life we deserve, this just isn't a concept that I can get past all these logical arguments for.
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    (Original post by udeyomydays)
    I dont think you will like philosophy all that much then :P

    But in all honesty i think in the majority of these discussions, the comments are against religion (the main religions currently in the news for example) as opposed to faith.

    As long as someone leaves me be and does his own thing then i see nothing wrong with someone believing in an after life, or in a God etc..

    There is so much that we simply do not know and will not know. That doesn't simply mean we should just give up and not try but that there will always be things that are out of our grasp. Some humility will not go amiss.

    To believe in an after life and a GOD and also to have a belief in science and all that it can teach us, the two things are not mutually exclusive in my opinion
    The problem with people having religous beliefs is that it doesnt just stay confined to them.If a large number of people have religous beleifs then it affects society.For example in the USA a president is unlikely to be elected if he doesnt believe in god.If those religous beliefs are homophobic or mysognistic then you end up with situations like in saudi and iran.With women covered head to toe and gays executed. So to say that religous beliefs do no harm is wrong.I also oppose it because I just think it cheapens our view of the universe.The universe is vast beyond imagining with trillions of stars planets and galaxies.It could go on forever.You know there could literally be anything out there.I find that the view of most religions is cheap.They invent tales about a diety in the sky but the reality is much more awe inspiring.Its like looking at a tiny pond and saying look how magnificent this is, without ever seeing the full ocean.The universe is much bigger and grander than religion makes it out to be and thats the main reason I dislike religion.
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    (Original post by Bros R Us)
    i read your post and thought it was baloney and then you refused to expand. insult me all you like but it won't hide that what you said is bollox :lol:
    I just refuse to feed information to the lazy and ignorant, is all - if you're that interested, why not do your own research? You might find info on how the natural properties of the Earth were written in the bible several thousand years ago, obviously long before scientists found out these things through their own research; or how things in the bible that were for centuries considered just stories and fables, turned out to be true and the remnants of those happenings still exist today; and also how things that were prophesied in the bible have happened, and are still happening (which may have just been good estimation, but still food for thought in some cases). Just a few bits off the top of my head, as I said if you really wish to know then you can do your own research, unless of course you're just ignorant like many atheists I've spoken to and simply cannot be bothered because your mind is made up. I'm not here to defend God, so to prove his existence to you isn't my job - as an agnostic, I'm simply stating that both sides do have their evidence, and the fact is that atheist theories still lack concrete proof either way.

    So as I said, none of the above is definitive proof of the existence of God, hence why I'm agnostic and don't believe that God does exist, but might exist. However, it's certainly proof that the bible isn't all BS and, as the supposed word of God that originates from millenniums ago, is certainly meaningful and can be used to argue that God may exist.
 
 
 
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