Pakistan vs India

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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Calling the Mughals that treated Sikhs terribly as simply "Muslims", only encourage some anti-Muslim resentment for Sikhs. It wasn't a war of religion, it was the Sikh struggle against a oppressive regime that used religion to control. Hatred to other humans wasn't something the Guru's encouraged.
    At the end of the day they were still muslims

    Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?
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    (Original post by Ishax)
    I'm Sikh and it's mainly because of the history. Muslims have killed our god so people resent them for it. They were trying to convert Sikhs to becoming Muslims, Sikh refused to do so and they were killed unfortunately.

    Watch Chaar Sahibzaade. It tells the story of how it happened and everything, very heartbreaking and touching to watch. It should be available in English.

    I don't personally try to hate Muslims, but the history is just shocking for me to get past sometimes.

    In addition to this, Sikhs were attacked again in 1984 and just google it. Everything should come up, I don't really want to go into as I'll get upset.
    1. God can never die. A religion is false/a person is a liar or misinformed if they claim God can be killed.

    2. Only Sikhs care about the death of the Gurus; the Hindu majority don't, so it bears absolutely no impact on the foreign policy of India.

    3. Events in 1984 were perpetrated by Hindus/Indian nationalists.
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    (Original post by 123teddy)
    i dont think he is an indian muslim
    Why?
    Just because I disagreed with another Muslim. It is this attitude that annoys me that just because someone is a Muslim they automatically have to agree with everything that another Muslim has to say.

    (Original post by ksj.11)
    did you face discrimination there? Oh and i read an article of a group of muslims beating another muslim man really bad because he was singing the national anthem or something. Whys that??


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    I personally did not although members of my family occasionally did.
    Was it the national anthem (Jana Gana Mana) or was it the national song (Vande Mataram)
    If it was Vande Mataram then its because the title means "I bow to you Mother" and Muslims are not allowed to bow down to anyone except Allah (swt) although I condemn the fact that anyone should resort to violence for that

    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?
    Hardly surprising when many Muslims on both sides of the border regard looters and murderers like Bin Qasim, Babur and Aurangzeb as inspirational figures.
    However there are Indian Muslims like me who regard tolerant people like Dara Shikoh (Aurangzeb's brother) as inspirational figures.
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    I think Sikh's should have their own country tbh
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    (Original post by Ishax)
    It's not about specific family members, Sikhs were killed also. The point is Muslims killed our Sikh Gurus, which is the main reason for the hatred of Muslims. I've just stated what I've been told as I was growing up from my parents and other family members. I honestly don't think it's anything to do with Kashmir anymore, Sikhs have got past that. My parents have mentioned it to me, but rarely.

    I'm friends with Muslims and people of different religions. It's just a sore topic when it comes to Sikhs. I've even said and admitted in this thread, I'm "trying" not to hate Muslims as there's nothing that'll come from it. It's best to maintain the peace and live a happy life.

    No, it's fine. It's good to have a debate which is nice and not offending to other religions 👍🏼 It's just the history that bothers me, I try to get past it but it'll take time I guess.
    I guess the main point I wanna say is we need to learn to distinguish between the culprit and the group they belong to, there would've been Muslims who had no issues with Sikhs in those days with the Guru's. If the Guru's were accepting of Muslims (those who did no wrong) and people of all religions, then so should we. (Or to aspire to be like that)

    It's down to us to explain our history or religion's history to our future generations, but to do so clearly and ensure it isn't taken the wrong way that promotes some hatred to entire groups (which is against the core principle of nearly every religion anyway)

    Spoiler:
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    I think we've gone really off topic, perhaps best to end this conversation here :lol: I do understand where you're coming from and don't disagree, just giving my view
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    I think Sikh's should have their own country tbh
    That's another debate entirely :lol:

    I'll let Idunno99 and TheBBQ (who I think is a Sikh) deal with that :lol:
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    (Original post by Indian_Muslim)
    That's another debate entirely :lol:

    I'll let Idunno99 and TheBBQ (who I think is a Sikh) deal with that :lol:
    Looool yes it is and yes I am.

    But I'm surprised even some people within the borders hail aurangzeb as a hero.. Terrible
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    (Original post by Indian_Muslim)
    That's another debate entirely :lol:

    I'll let Idunno99 and TheBBQ (who I think is a Sikh) deal with that :lol:
    I mean, jews have their own country so why not Sikh's? I would visit the hell out of it haha
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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    At the end of the day they were still muslims

    Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?
    Does that mean hatred towards me would be justified?

    Mughal themed? In what way? I might have seen it just not noticed it. But I imagine Mughals did affect south Asian culture in some aspects during their rule.

    But tbh, I've heard nobody talk about Mughals or praise them, I don't think many Pakistanis care for them that much tbh.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    1. God can never die. A religion is false/a person is a liar or misinformed if they claim God can be killed.

    2. Only Sikhs care about the death of the Gurus; the Hindu majority don't, so it bears absolutely no impact on the foreign policy of India.

    3. Events in 1984 were perpetrated by Hindus/Indian nationalists.
    1. Sikh Gurus were specifically beheaded.

    2. That's what I've just stated, I haven't mentioned anything about Hindus.

    3. Plenty of Sikhs died in 1984, yet no one came to help.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    I guess the main point I wanna say is we need to learn to distinguish between the culprit and the group they belong to, there would've been Muslims who had no issues with Sikhs in those days with the Guru's. If the Guru's were accepting of Muslims (those who did no wrong) and people of all religions, then so should we. (Or to aspire to be like that)

    It's down to us to explain our history or religion's history to our future generations, but to do so clearly and ensure it isn't taken the wrong way that promotes some hatred to entire groups (which is against the core principle of nearly every religion anyway)
    Spoiler:
    Show
    I think we've gone really off topic, perhaps best to end this conversation here :lol: I do understand where you're coming from and don't disagree, just giving my view
    I think it's best to agree to disagree
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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?
    Even Indian Hindus do. http://www.marigoldevents.com/2012/0.../#.V_E8B_ArLIU
    And why shouldn't they? Mughals play a huge part in the history of the subcontinent, having ruled it for about 400 years and having massively influenced the culture of it, ranging from language to food to dress to customs etc.
    I think it's only really Sikhs who view the Mughals negatively, most Muslims will view them positively and most Hindus are just indifferent to them and view them as being amongst a long line of foreign rulers to rule India.
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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    Looool yes it is and yes I am.

    But I'm surprised even some people within the borders hail aurangzeb as a hero.. Terrible
    They do sadly. I remember watching a debate on an Indian news channel where a cleric shouted and screamed that "Aurangzeb is our hero and father" or something of the sort
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    Man this thread is so depressing to read. I think it's good you're having an open and honest debate about the history of our countries. I don't know the arguments about Kashmir in as much detail as has been mentioned above so I can't speak about that. But I can't be the only one on here who feels that we must move past the tragedies that happened before/during/after independence - I just want to see peace between both countries. Nearly 70 years after independence and it really disappoints me to see that the relationship is still so fragile that both countries will happily jump at each other and undo all the progress they've made towards securing peace over the actions of backwards extremists who are in such a small minority. Neither India nor Pakistan are innocent in this - both countries have to do more and work together to improve relations instead of each side blaming the other over terrorism. Going to war again isn't the answer cos that's exactly what these extremists want. Both countries would be playing into the hands of terrorists and perpetuating the cycle of violent attacks like what happened in Uri if they were to start another war. Like many of you, I'm fed up of our countries hating each other. But when both governments come out with antagonistic and aggressive comments to the other side in response to the violence in Kashmir, you have to wonder - do they actually want peace? For one thing, the Indian government needs to stop listening to far-right cancers like the MNS when deciding how to respond.

    It's really sad to read comments implying that there are still families out there who have been brought up to hold such deep hatred for Muslims/Sikhs/whoever over what happened 70 years ago and the current attacks. How can you persecute an entire religion based on the crimes of a few people? Those people raised with such hatred but who cannot think for themselves only become blind with violence and do not listen to reason, hence becoming radicalised and making the problems worse. We all lost ancestors back then - the best we can do to repair the damage now is to advocate peace and stop people digging up the past at every opportunity.
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    (Original post by Ishax)
    I guess the only way we can do anything good, is try to bring peace and promote it
    That's the right idea. As Gotama Buddha said, "fight hate with love." If I were you I wouldn't worry about Pakistan's aggression, all empires built on hatred and deceit will eventually crumble as their subjugated populations embrace love and truth.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    That's the right idea. As Gotama Buddha said, "fight hate with love." If I were you I wouldn't worry about Pakistan's aggression, all empires built on hatred and deceit will eventually crumble as their subjugated populations embrace love and truth.
    I think it's already happened because take a look at the Media and on TSR. There are always countless articles and threaded made about hatred or anything else towards Muslims, compared to any other religions.
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    (Original post by Ishax)
    I think it's already happened because take a look at the Media and on TSR. There are always countless articles and threaded made about hatred or anything else towards Muslims, compared to any other religions.
    That's just the tip of the iceberg, I think. The world is only just waking up, politicians in the west are still pro-Islam but the people are beginning to rise against Islamification and soon the politicians will have no choice but to take action. Meanwhile in places like Saudi Arabia, Islam is on the decline. It's estimated that about 40% of Saudis are atheists and they're rapidly growing in number. It won't be long now before they have enough numbers to challenge the Islamic theocracy and at that point the Islamic world will start to implode.
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    Thank you very much but we are happy with India.
    Just like hindus and Sikhs are inseparable



    .
    I'm a Sikh and i worship Godess Kali ( Hindu goddess )because so did our Guru Gobind Singh jee, he extensively worshiped goddess Chandi( incarnation of hindu goddess kali)

    The core of our ardass( prayer) is an invocation which guru gobind singh jee recited at the begining of his epic poem Chandi di vaar. In it he calls upon the power of adi shakti in the form of pritham bhagauti( Hindu Goddess Bhagwati/saraswati)
    The opening line of the ardas reads-
    Ik onkar waheguru jee ki fatheh, shree bhagauti( bhagvati) jee sahai
    The prayer begins by going through the order of meditation by placing shree bhagauti ( again goddess Bhagvati, saraswati) above everything else.

    In his autobiography guru gobind singh jee
    Has written-
    In my past life i did a lot of penance at Hemkunth and worshipped goddess
    Mahakal kalka( Hindu Goddess Mahakali)

    He also saught her blessing for the completion of the holy granth sahib -

    Divine mother of the universe shower me with your blessings So that i shall be able to complete this granth.

    Even our gurus worshipped hindu gods/ goddesses

    Any sikh who actuallly knows what our religion is about will never want to seperate from Hindus or want a separate country

    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    I think Sikh's should have their own country tbh
    We dont need one, we already have this one called Hindustan/bharatvarsha ( India). It is our own country just like hindus are our own family, and the above paragraphs prove it.
    Thank you but no thank you
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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    Your ignorance is astounding
    :rofl: Perhaps you could get back to every debate which you never responded to whenever I have called out your ignorance :holmes:
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    It's estimated that about 40% of Saudis are atheists and they're rapidly growing in number.
    May I know where you got that percentage from? After reading your post, I tried to find it but I didn't get any results. If you can help me out with the source please.
 
 
 
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