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Why would someone think that abortion is not permissible? watch

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    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    I don't like abortion because I don't believe its right to abort an unborn child. You may call it a fetus but I call it an unborn baby. Just sayin. Babies are adorable and i like children and it just seems so sad for an unborn baby to be ripped apart in the mother's womb, and has their body parts thrown away. I consider it selfish on the mother's part. I don't like it, and I think its a bad way to deal with unwanted pregnancies. Abortions are not birth controls.
    Well, they are a form of birth control - you're effectively preventing an unwanted pregnancy.

    The fact is this. Abortions are apparent all over the world and where abortion isn't allowed/illegal women resort to 'underground' abortions where the fetuses still die but with the added complications of suffering from women.

    It's all good and well to wish that abortions didn't happen but it isn't practical. It's the woman's body and she has to have the right to be able to self govern it in a safe way.
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    What I don't get is the fact that some people choose abortion like its no big deal - how can you not think about what that foetus (I want to say baby) will turn out like when its fully developed and born? How can you not want to know who that person is and see them develop and grow, and know that you made that possible? I know there are loads of reasons that people have abortions - such as rape, and I know that in these circumstances the victim possibly does not want to be reminded of their ordeal. But in other cases where someone just wasn't being careful with their contraception - how is that fair to the potential baby developing inside? Everyone goes on about how abortion should be a choice - but where is the choice for the foetus who never got a chance at life?
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    Well, they are a form of birth control - you're effectively preventing an unwanted pregnancy.

    The fact is this. Abortions are apparent all over the world and where abortion isn't allowed/illegal women resort to 'underground' abortions where the fetuses still die but with the added complications of suffering from women.

    It's all good and well to wish that abortions didn't happen but it isn't practical. It's the woman's body and she has to have the right to be able to self govern it in a safe way.
    Abortion does not prevent pregnancy. If you're already pregnant, you're already pregnant. Abortion is just getting rid of the baby, not preventing a baby from being formed in the tummy (vagina). Taking a birth control prevents that. Opening your legs and letting the doctor slice slice just kills the baby.

    I'm aware abortions occur in multiple places. Does it mean I have to like it or support it? No. Am I denying it does happen illegally or legally? No.

    Did I ever say it wasn't a woman's right? No. But I did say i thought it was selfish on the mother's part to wish to kill her own flesh and blood. Especially mothers have an habit of always getting pregnant and never use this magically invention : birth control pills.

    No offense but I didn't intend to be practical. I don't like it. I like to believe a woman and the human being growing in the mother's tummy are two separate beings.
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    Well, they are a form of birth control - you're effectively preventing an unwanted pregnancy.

    The fact is this. Abortions are apparent all over the world and where abortion isn't allowed/illegal women resort to 'underground' abortions where the fetuses still die but with the added complications of suffering from women.

    It's all good and well to wish that abortions didn't happen but it isn't practical. It's the woman's body and she has to have the right to be able to self govern it in a safe way.
    'If it's illegal people will do it anyway' - by that logic let's legalise murder.

    You're still peddling this fallacy of a pregnant woman and foetus being the same thing, they're two separate entities


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    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    Abortion does not prevent pregnancy. If you're already pregnant, you're already pregnant. Abortion is just getting rid of the baby, not preventing a baby from being formed in the tummy (vagina). Taking a birth control prevents that. Opening your legs and letting the doctor slice slice just kills the baby.

    I'm aware abortions occur in multiple places. Does it mean I have to like it or support it? No. Am I denying it does happen illegally or legally? No.

    Did I ever say it wasn't a woman's right? No. But I did say i thought it was selfish on the mother's part to wish to kill her own flesh and blood. Especially mothers have an habit of always getting pregnant and never use this magically invention : birth control pills.

    No offense but I didn't intend to be practical. I don't like it. I like to believe a woman and the human being growing in the mother's tummy are two separate beings.
    (Original post by Underscore__;68393038[b)
    ]'If it's illegal people will do it anyway' - by that logic let's legalise murder.[/b]

    You're still peddling this fallacy of a pregnant woman and foetus being the same thing, they're two separate entities


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    Firstly, a mistake on my behalf. I meant that it was the termination of a pregnancy.

    My point is this, autonomy takes precedence over life.

    What about women who are raped? Would you really force them to raise what is essentially an unwanted child?

    It's not selfish to abort the same way it isn't selfish for you not to donate blood or a bodily organ.

    You can't equate murder with abortion. Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. Abortion is the deliberate termination of pregnancy. The logic was sound - why push women into a corner so that they have to resort to 'black market' methods of having to abort that risks their lives and allows for medical complications.

    I've not suggested that a fetus and a woman are the same thing. I'm suggesting that it's part of the woman's body as a result of it growing from a woman's cells and feeding on her bloodstream.

    Just face it. You're not really concerned with the protection of another life, the sanctity of life or even the welfare of children. You're concerned with controlling women whether you realize it or not.
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    Firstly, a mistake on my behalf. I meant that it was the termination of a pregnancy.

    My point is this, autonomy takes precedence over life.

    What about women who are raped? Would you really force them to raise what is essentially an unwanted child?

    It's not selfish to abort the same way it isn't selfish for you not to donate blood or a bodily organ.

    The logic was sound - why push women into a corner so that they have to resort to 'black market' methods of having to abort that risks their lives and allows for medical complications.

    I've not suggested that a fetus and a woman are the same thing. I'm suggesting that it's part of the woman's body as a result of it growing from a woman's cells and feeding on her bloodstream.

    Just face it. You're not really concerned with the protection of another life, the sanctity of life or even the welfare of children. You're concerned with controlling women whether you realize it or not.

    'You can't equate murder with abortion. Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. Abortion is the deliberate termination of pregnancy.' - you have just completely contradicted yourself! Abortion IS the planning of removing the life of another human being! What do you think a foetus is? It is a human being!
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    "killing a life"
    also it depends on the reason, if the lady wants abortion because she just wants to have sex with no kids, then obv some would think wtf
    but if someone has like 4 kids with disabilities, and she doesnt want another kid like that then some would think it's permissible
    all depends on reasons
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    (Original post by PATD123)
    'You can't equate murder with abortion. Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. Abortion is the deliberate termination of pregnancy.' - you have just completely contradicted yourself! Abortion IS the planning of removing the life of another human being! What do you think a foetus is? It is a human being!
    Nah. A fetus is a potential human being.

    If it were a human being surely they'd be counted in the consensus or given a cinema ticket along with the pregnant mother.
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    you was man enough to do it so be man enough to take care of the baby
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    Nah. A fetus is a potential human being.

    If it were a human being surely they'd be counted in the consensus or given a cinema ticket along with the pregnant mother.
    Well if thats true then why do many foetuses who are born way too early survive? They have the potential to survive outside the womb, and some even survive before 24 weeks which is the cut off for an abortion. Have you read some articles about numerous people who were aborted who survived?
    They don't count them in the consensus because there is still a possibility that they MAY not survive yet, for example women who have miscarriages or babies who die in labour, so until they're born healthy they don't count them as citizens yet otherwise the number of citizens would constantly be high and fluctuating, as miscarriages are quite common. And the cinema ticket thing - well they can't watch the movie if they're in the womb can they?
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    My point is this, autonomy takes precedence over life.
    Care to elaborate because at the moment it sounds quite ridiculous.

    (Original post by Conceited)
    What about women who are raped? Would you really force them to raise what is essentially an unwanted child?
    Why do people always mention this when they talk about abortion? It's such a tiny percentage that it's really not adding much to your argument.

    (Original post by Conceited)
    It's not selfish to abort the same way it isn't selfish for you not to donate blood or a bodily organ.
    Donating blood or an organ benefits another party, aborting a baby doesn't.

    (Original post by Conceited)
    You can't equate murder with abortion. Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. Abortion is the deliberate termination of pregnancy.
    The only difference between murder and abortion is that the latter doesn't result in the death of a legal human. They're not massively different from one another.

    (Original post by Conceited)
    The logic was sound - why push women into a corner so that they have to resort to 'black market' methods of having to abort that risks their lives and allows for medical complications.
    Why push pedophiles into a corner so that they have to result in murdering children to hide their crime?


    (Original post by Conceited)
    I've not suggested that a fetus and a woman are the same thing. I'm suggesting that it's part of the woman's body as a result of it growing from a woman's cells and feeding on her bloodstream.
    That's still wrong. A foetus is inside of a woman body, not part of it. A foetus is a separate living entity. It's essentially a parasite.

    (Original post by Conceited)
    Just face it. You're not really concerned with the protection of another life, the sanctity of life or even the welfare of children. You're concerned with controlling women whether you realize it or not.
    Why is this the fall back argument all the time? You just make yourself look silly by regurgitating this feminist drivel.

    Just to avoid the inevitable confusion I'll repeat my position on abortion. There's no good reason in favour of legalising abortion but there's also no good reason not to. In my view, when there's no good reason to ban something it should be legal.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Care to elaborate because at the moment it sounds quite ridiculous.



    Why do people always mention this when they talk about abortion? It's such a tiny percentage that it's really not adding much to your argument.



    Donating blood or an organ benefits another party, aborting a baby doesn't.



    The only difference between murder and abortion is that the latter doesn't result in the death of a legal human. They're not massively different from one another.



    Why push pedophiles into a corner so that they have to result in murdering children to hide their crime?




    That's still wrong. A foetus is inside of a woman body, not part of it. A foetus is a separate living entity. It's essentially a parasite.



    Why is this the fall back argument all the time? You just make yourself look silly by regurgitating this feminist drivel.

    Just to avoid the inevitable confusion I'll repeat my position on abortion. There's no good reason in favour of legalising abortion but there's also no good reason not to. In my view, when there's no good reason to ban something it should be legal.


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    My stance on the matter is this. Women are competent people and as such they should be able to undergo whatever medical procedures they wish to undertake.
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    My stance on the matter is this. Women are competent people and as such they should be able to undergo whatever medical procedures they wish to undertake.
    The law restricts plenty of 'medical procedures', there's no reason abortion shouldn't be part of the list that is banned. Abortion also comes close to the medical argument against capital punishment; the aim of medicine is preserve and save life, both abortion and capital punishment destroy it


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The law restricts plenty of 'medical procedures', there's no reason abortion shouldn't be part of the list that is banned. Abortion also comes close to the medical argument against capital punishment; the aim of medicine is preserve and save life, both abortion and capital punishment destroy it


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    Abortion exists because its necessary in a wide range of situations and my underlying point is still apparent which is that women should be able to self govern.
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    Abortion is a very complex and sensitive topic. It is a person's choice, and you may say one thing but being in the situation is totally different but I don't think I could ever kill a potential life. I don't have the guts or the heart to do that. But it is the mothers choice in that moment.
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuJJowJikdk

    I think this video alone is reason enough to disagree with abortion, just watch it (in full) before even considering replying. This is the reason I cannot support abortion.
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    Firstly, a mistake on my behalf. I meant that it was the termination of a pregnancy.

    My point is this, autonomy takes precedence over life.

    What about women who are raped? Would you really force them to raise what is essentially an unwanted child?

    SmileyVibe : I have sympathy for rape victims and I think its great when a rape victim can find some light in her dark experience. I have deep respect for rape victims who can find beauty or something positive out of her traumatic experience. I can't imagine myself going to that experience. No offense, but what are you talking about "forcing to raise"? You do realize its isn't illegal to not raise offspring right? There are adoption agencies. You don't have to raise a child for 18 years after giving birth.

    It's not selfish to abort the same way it isn't selfish for you not to donate blood or a bodily organ.

    SmileyVibe: I consider it selfish to abort your own flesh and blood. I consider it selfish when a woman is determined to make sure her offspring doesn't make it of her womb alive. I consider it selfish when a woman has three abortions and make its a goal to herself that her children never leave her womb alive. Blood nor a bodily organ is not an unborn child.


    You can't equate murder with abortion. Murder is the premeditated killing of another human being. Abortion is the deliberate termination of pregnancy. The logic was sound - why push women into a corner so that they have to resort to 'black market' methods of having to abort that risks their lives and allows for medical complications.

    SmileyVibe: An unborn baby is human. They share the same DNA and made of cells which is the building blocks of a living thing. They may be still forming and have no voice but they're human. They're not aliens, or cow cattle. Unborn babies have to the right to live as I do. No offense but I don't care about the black market. I'm not even denying abortion happens. I don't support abortion or like even the sound of the word abortion. The black market existing does not mean I have to like or support abortion.

    I've not suggested that a fetus and a woman are the same thing. I'm suggesting that it's part of the woman's body as a result of it growing from a woman's cells and feeding on her bloodstream.

    Just face it. You're not really concerned with the protection of another life, the sanctity of life or even the welfare of children. You're concerned with controlling women whether you realize it or not.
    SmileyVibe: Wow. You figured me out. I don't support abortion therefore I want to control where a woman pisses and what she eats and how she's breathes. You're right. Thank you so much for being open minded and I didn't know you had a degree in psychology and could figure my entire goal : to control every aspect of females other than myself based on my stance on abortion. You're right. You know me than I do based on my opinion of abortion.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)


    Why do people always mention this when they talk about abortion? It's such a tiny percentage that it's really not adding much to your argument.
    Don't ya know? Every-time a woman has sex, it's rape. She must think most pregnancies are result of rape. And that's why rape is included into every pro-abortion argument. Because you know, unprotected sex resulting in pregnancy is rape.
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    In my opinion i would say it's permissible to abort before it's considered viable outside the womb, so like, 23 weeks? However if the baby's healthy [i.e. it doesn't have any severe life-threatening disease or signs of developing an extremely debilitating condition], AND the mother is in a good place [financially stable, relationship stable etc.], then abortion should be out of the question.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Not true, neither of us know you personally. What we do know is that this "not a real person" argument has been used before in a variety of situations against a variety of different groups.



    Well, a foetus is biologically alive, there's no doubt about that.

    You've selected these additional criteria of "must be able to survive independently" and "must not reside inside the mother" in order to qualify for personhood, in order to be able to justify killing foetuses. And previous societies have selected their own criteria for personhood in order to legitimise killing the targets that suit their agenda as well.

    Nothing new.



    I don't think any religion prohibits abortion specifically (certainly I don't belong to such a religion). All religions and all reasonable people consider it wrong to kill innocent people. Now the issue is merely one of deciding who falls into the category of "people", which isn't particularly touched upon by any religious scripture.

    I could equally say that what motivates the arguments of those who are so staunchly pro-abortion is their personal vested interest in its legality. It doesn't benefit them at all if it's banned, but it might do if it's legal. People fear the day they might one day need to turn to an abortion clinic.

    Nothing justifies killing an innocent person, unless their existence poses a threat to your own life.

    The key issue here, as I said above, is whether the foetus should be considered to be a "person" or not. If so, the foetus should not be killed. If not, it's acceptable to kill that foetus regardless of whether it's a result of rape or not. So introducing rape into the equation doesn't really affect it.



    If you read my original post, you'll see that I don't actively claim that a foetus is a human being. My whole point is that, without an absolutely watertight argument (which we don't currently have), it's not for us to decide.

    Unless you've never ejaculated in your life for reasons other than procreating then you're a massive hypocrite.
 
 
 
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