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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    If Corbyn does get nowhere, it won't be because of Brexit and anyway he's always been a Leaver, he just (for reasons best known to himself) temporarily posed as a Remainer during the campaign, pretty unconvincingly. In fact, if his intention was to sabotage it by damning it with faint praise, he couldn't have done better.

    The real outcome if you are right is that the country will remain in the neanderthal grip of Rupert Murdoch and M'Luds Belize and Dacre, but without the recourse we did have to sensible EU government.
    I'm not sure if you live in some kind of echo chamber where everyone you socialise with agrees with everything you say or whether you're just somewhat deluded; even many Remain supporters don't like the idea of an EU govt but decided the economic benefits outweighed those issues. The majority of the UK population does not like the EU having sovereignty over Parliament - but if you haven't worked this out by now then you probably won't.

    What Corbyn says & what the PLP says are very different on many issues, including on Europe so; I certainly imagine Labour MPs from constituencies that voted to Remain could (somewhat understandably) vote to stop an Article 50 bill regardless of Jeremy's stance. Equally, other Labour MPs in pro-Leave seats my have to support Article 50 or risk not being re-elected.
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    I really wish that excited remainers would calm the **** down about stuff like this. This does not mean Brexit will stop, it just means that it has to go before parliament because that's how the procedure is supposed to work. The triggering of article 50 is not going to be voted against by most MPs, as it would be political suicide for mere representatives to block the result of a direct democratic vote (except for maybe the MPs of some pro-remain constituencies like those in London).
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    To be fair, Gina Miller has campaigned in the past for more openness and a fairer system for ordinary people in the finance sector
    To be fair, Hitler was a vegetarian :borat:
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    I really wish that excited remainers would calm the **** down about stuff like this. This does not mean Brexit will stop, it just means that it has to go before parliament because that's how the procedure is supposed to work. The triggering of article 50 is not going to be voted against by most MPs, as it would be political suicide for mere representatives to block the result of a direct democratic vote (except for maybe the MPs of some pro-remain constituencies like those in London).
    Well, it makes it less likely that we're going to get a hard, UKIP-style Brexit. Which definitely is a good thing.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Well, it makes it less likely that we're going to get a hard, UKIP-style Brexit. Which definitely is a good thing.
    It wasn't about a 'UKIP style' Brexit.

    It was about whether we leave the single market and completely restore independence.

    Actually even if you are a remainer it is possible to see that soft Brexit may be less preferable to hard Brexit as we will get a crap deal for being seen as weak, and if we were going to stay in the single market and have our trade and full sovereingty restricted, then there was no point leaving.

    'Soft Brexit' =absurdity of having a referendum at all or pretending to listen to the result, plus none of the potential long term gains from Brexit it was worth risking by the referendum.
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    If the Supreme Court rule against the Government then the Government's last hope will be to appeal to the European Court of Justice

    Talk about irony. You can't make this up
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It wasn't about a UKIP style Brexit.

    It was about whether we leave the single market and completely restore independence.

    Actually even if you are a remainer it is possible to see that soft Brexit may be less preferable to hard Brexit as we will get a crap deal for being seen as weak, and if we were going to stay in the single market and have our trade and full sovereingty restricted, then there was no point leaving.
    I completely agree that a soft Brexit staying in the single market would be absolutely pointless and a ridiculous decision, but it's still considerably more sane than leaving entirely. If staying in the EU is politically impossible - which is absurd, but unfortunately the UK's electorate has decided that they're all suddenly political and economic experts - then the next best thing is keeping things as close to the status quo as possible whilst still technically leaving. This entire drama was a protest vote anyway. Those people aren't going to be appeased by anything.
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    I hate that people keep saying "the will of the people". It was a very simple majority - a plurality. That does not constitute "the people".

    If there were 33 people in a room and 17 people said: "I like chocolate" and 16 people said: "I hate chocolate", you would not draw the conclusion the people in this room like chocolate. That is ridiculous and I do not say that because I am pro-Remain.

    Even if Remain won I wouldn't call it "the will of the people". I'd probably say "thank God for that it was a close one" and keep my mouth shut.

    I would also acknowledge that a really, really significant amount of people voted Leave and that their needs or at least the reasons why they felt they had to vote Leave should also be addressed.

    Unfortunately, that's because we're on the rational, logical side.

    The leavers are not going to take into account our wants or desires as they are the amygdala, emotional, animal-brain-wired people who I would really love to deport to an island so they can throw spears at each other.

    What a debacle. The courts can't do a lot as although the referendum does not show that Brexit is the will of the people, it's clear from our last elections that this is a conservative country with nobody willing to have the balls to stand up for the people against corporate interests.

    Brexit? Yes. British exit. That's my intentions for the future. Luckily I have the means to do so, I feel so badly for the people who voted Remain and who aren't free-marketeer masochists without the means to leave.
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    (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
    If the Supreme Court rule against the Government then the Government's last hope will be to appeal to the European Court of Justice

    Talk about irony. You can't make this up
    It's more likely that, should the Government appeal succeed, then the Remain campaigner Gina Miller will have to go to the ECJ to appeal; the Government instead would call a General Election if all else failed.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It wasn't about a 'UKIP style' Brexit.

    It was about whether we leave the single market and completely restore independence.

    Actually even if you are a remainer it is possible to see that soft Brexit may be less preferable to hard Brexit as we will get a crap deal for being seen as weak, and if we were going to stay in the single market and have our trade and full sovereingty restricted, then there was no point leaving.

    'Soft Brexit' =absurdity of having a referendum at all or pretending to listen to the result, plus none of the potential long term gains from Brexit it was worth risking by the referendum.
    At least 5% of those who voted leave would've preferred remaining to a hard Brexit. Hard Brexit without Parliamentary vote would be completely undemocratic.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    it would be fun to see a general election and see labour slowly die and the tories increase their majority
    So you're a Tory now? Good lord.
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    (Original post by J_89)
    I hate that people keep saying "the will of the people". It was a very simple majority - a plurality. That does not constitute "the people".

    If there were 33 people in a room and 17 people said: "I like chocolate" and 16 people said: "I hate chocolate", you would not draw the conclusion the people in this room like chocolate. That is ridiculous and I do not say that because I am pro-Remain.

    Even if Remain won I wouldn't call it "the will of the people". I'd probably say "thank God for that it was a close one" and keep my mouth shut.

    I would also acknowledge that a really, really significant amount of people voted Leave and that their needs or at least the reasons why they felt they had to vote Leave should also be addressed.

    Unfortunately, that's because we're on the rational, logical side.

    The leavers are not going to take into account our wants or desires as they are the amygdala, emotional, animal-brain-wired people who I would really love to deport to an island so they can throw spears at each other.

    What a debacle. The courts can't do a lot as although the referendum does not show that Brexit is the will of the people, it's clear from our last elections that this is a conservative country with nobody willing to have the balls to stand up for the people against corporate interests.

    Brexit? Yes. British exit. That's my intentions for the future. Luckily I have the means to do so, I feel so badly for the people who voted Remain and who aren't free-marketeer masochists without the means to leave.
    How would you take into account the leavers wants or desires? Continue to give away sovereignty and uncontrollable immigration?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So you're a Tory now? Good lord.
    I'm not a Tory but the current Labour Party needs to die and be replaced it is out of touch with the people it is supposed to represent.

    I did vote Tory at the last election (not that it makes a difference in Sunderland) as I believed we needed a referendum on brexit.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    Why do we have an Executive, then? If they are seen as incapable of carrying out the business of government?
    You seem to be conflating law and politics.
    Today's ruling was not about whether Brexit should or shouldn't happen, or whether Brexit should be hard or soft.
    It was simply about the legal processes that the UK must adhere to, as a matter of UK Constitutional Law, to lawfully exit the European Union.

    You seem to be suggesting that the courts should have set aside legal considerations and judged the case on political considerations. That is not the role of our courts and law cannot be set aside for politics.

    We will leave the EU, all today's judgement made clear was that to lawfully do so, Parliament must vote for it as a matter of UK Constituional Law.

    I really don't see the issue here.
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    (Original post by Mimir)
    Now watch many MPs and the SNP vote against the Bill that will be put to the House of Commons, giving themselves a black eye and becoming unelectable. Again.
    How are the SNP unelectable and how will they give themselves a black eye by voting against Brexit?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    How would you take into account the leavers wants or desires? Continue to give away sovereignty and uncontrollable immigration?
    Actually, I would seek to tackle uncontrollable immigration in a proper manner.

    I would probably use the close result as a way to better negotiate with the EU on this issue - but more importantly, I would invest more money into actually securing our borders instead of just saying this for political purposes and I would actually deal properly with some of the issues in the world that are causing mass migration instead of just bombing the sh*t out of places and hoping for the best with no real strategy.

    Leaving the EU on a whim with no real understanding of how that may even be achieved with relation to our EU membership is not the right way to do this.

    Egged on by listening to fanatical slogans by people purely obsessed with their own political power (Farage, Johnson, Gove) was never going to properly deal with immigration issues.

    As for sovereignty?

    If a Leave voter wants sovereignty because they believe sovereignty is political autonomy for the people than I would explain that the more that political power is dispersed and the less it is restricted to certain groups the better, obviously. Sovereignty is linked to the autonomy of the British people in having their decisions made by an elected hence accountable government.

    The problem with how this relates to our actual situation, is that democracy is a sham in this country, we don't have a free press and the government is more controlled by media barons and financial interests than they are by the will of the people.

    The media sets the agenda and the government complies in action; the people comply in ignorance of mind.

    The laws that have affected us from the EU are largely in the interests of the people; the laws by this Tory government have not been in the interests of the people. Name one. Name one Cameronian/Osbornian law that has or sought to affect the actual British public rather than "Britain as a nation" in a positive way. "Balancing the budget" and all this vague abstract **** that they use to distract people is actually rigging the system to favor those in the financial district above the majority of the citizens in the country.

    In this situation sovereignty would just mean the sovereignty to turn Britain into a tax haven, which any rational non-masochistic individual would not want. (Unless of course, you belong to that segment of society from whom it would be of benefit to tax avoid to the tune of millions - then I respect your self-interest, but wondering why you're on TSR).

    If a leave voter just wants Sovereignty for sovereignty's sake because they're a neanderthol nationalist who thinks Britain is supreme just because it's Britain, then you're right, can't help them there.
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    (Original post by J_89)
    Actually, I would seek to tackle uncontrollable immigration and a proper manner.

    I would probably use the close result as a way to better negotiate with the EU on this issue - but more importantly, I would invest more money into actually securing our borders instead of just saying this for political purposes and I would actually deal properly with some of the issues in the world that are causing mass migration instead of just bombing the sh*t out of places and hoping for the best with no real strategy.

    Leaving the EU on a whim with no real understanding of how that may even be achieved with relation to our EU membership is not the right way to do this.

    Egged on by listening to fanatical slogans by people purely obsessed with their own political power (Farage, Johnson, Gove) was never going to properly deal with immigration issues.

    As for sovereignty?

    If a Leave voter wants sovereignty because they believe sovereignty is political autonomy for the people than I would explain that the more that political power is dispersed and the less it is restricted to certain groups the better, obviously. Sovereignty is linked to the autonomy of the British people in having their decisions made by an elected hence accountable government.

    The problem with how this relates to our actual situation, is that democracy is a sham in this country, we don't have a free press and the government is more controlled by media barons and financial interests than they are by the will of the people.

    The media sets the agenda and the government complies in action; the people comply in ignorance of mind.

    The laws that have affected us from the EU are largely in the interests of the people; the laws by this Tory government have not been in the interests of the people. Name one. Name on Cameronian/Osbornian law that has or sought to affect the British public in the positive way. "Balancing the budget" and all this vague abstract **** that they use to distract people is actually rigging the system to favor those in the financial district above the majority of the citizens in the country.

    In this situation sovereignty would just mean the sovereignty to turn Britain into a tax haven, which any rational non-masochistic individual would not want. (Unless of course, you belong to that segment of society from whom it would be of benefit to tax avoid to the tune of millions - then I respect your self-interest, but wondering why you're on TSR).

    If a leave voter just wants Sovereignty for sovereignty's sake because they're a neanderthol nationalist who thinks Britain is supreme just because it's Britain, then you're right, can't help them there.
    When I say uncontrollable immigration I mean from the EU we can control non eu immigration, so how would you deal with this while in the eu?

    You underestimate the people of Britain it is the one key flaw in remain voters Britain will not allow it although it is possible to reduces taxes for people whilst increasing income from tax.

    I slightly agree with the media setting the agenda look at brexit the tv stations were against it and the newspapers for it and look at the us election the BBC are basically on their knees for the clintons wondering which one to serve first.

    It is funny how you say that the Eu will protect people from the riches influence when it was the rich who dreamed up the eu having a larger potential workforce is a good way to keep wages down.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You seem to be suggesting that the courts should have set aside legal considerations and judged the case on political considerations. That is not the role of our courts and law cannot be set aside for politics.
    Yes, I think I remember covering that in constitutional law...
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    (Original post by J_89)
    Brexit? Yes. British exit. That's my intentions for the future. Luckily I have the means to do so, I feel so badly for the people who voted Remain and who aren't free-marketeer masochists without the means to leave.
    Thank **** for that!
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    When I say uncontrollable immigration I mean from the EU we can control non eu immigration, so how would you deal with this while in the eu?

    You underestimate the people of Britain it is the one key flaw in remain voters Britain will not allow it although it is possible to reduces taxes for people whilst increasing income from tax.

    I slightly agree with the media setting the agenda look at brexit the tv stations were against it and the newspapers for it and look at the us election the BBC are basically on their knees for the clintons wondering which one to serve first.

    It is funny how you say that the Eu will protect people from the riches influence when it was the rich who dreamed up the eu having a larger potential workforce is a good way to keep wages down.
    Actually it was initially set up to preserve the peace in Europe. If nation's were economically dependant on one another, they were far less likely to go to war.

    I just hate how the EU is seen as 'the establishment' and leaving seen as anti establishment when some of the biggest brexiteers out there were big establishment figures, like Gove and Johnson.
 
 
 
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