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    (Original post by Commercial Paper)
    I wish I could say that was the case but unfortunately it is not. Our government borrows money every single month of every year. In some cases, it is just borrowing money to pay off or refinance pre-existing debt. The tax the UK government receives nowhere near covers our basic services or debt repayments to investors hence the excess borrowing and deficit we have.
    The deficit is something like £170b our annual GDP is what? $3tr or so?
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    (Original post by Axion)
    We are talking about banks? Almost all banks in a good financial state pay dividends, and distribute most of their surplus income that way (the rest seems to be in regulatory fines at the moment!). Almost all banks are large as well, so whether it's private shareholders or public shareholders, the shareholders will get it.

    Whether it's a bonus is irrelevant. You might as well say, why not pay hardworking employees more? The reality is that bonuses are performance-contingent for a reason. In downturns, they are more easily cut, and in bad performances, they don't get paid out.

    It's performance-based, and generally speaking it is done fairly. Sure there are a few big cases where it hasn't been, but that's not down to the bonuses, that down to companies failing to properly manage themselves. Why should employees in accounting or HR get a sudden bonus coup when their performance does not directly translate into supernormal performance? They have far less responsibility in terms of the overall running of the bank, and heck, their work hours are far better.

    You'r missing the point that bonuses are an incentive tool for high-quality performance. Top notch performance in HR or accounting doesn't add that much value to the company. Where the money is, in investment banking, high-quality performance can add tremendous value to the company.
    Uh... for their hard work maybe? They are still absolutely vital to a company's success.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    Uh... for their hard work maybe? They are still absolutely vital to a company's success.
    Cleaners are vital too, do they deserve a bonus for not bringing in revenue?

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    (Original post by cbreef)
    The deficit is something like £170b our annual GDP is what? $3tr or so?
    Yes but our National Debt on top of that is £1.7 trillion or nearly 100% of GDP. In fact, the government borrows so much our National Debt grows at £5,000 per second. This equates to £28,000 per person or nearly £50,000 per taxpayer.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Cleaners are vital too, do they deserve a bonus for not bringing in revenue?

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    Cleaners aren't 'vital'... Companies could theoretically survive without them.
    Plus, the work they do is very low skilled and easy to do.
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    (Original post by azizadil1998)
    Flat tax is not ideal, it would only make income inequality worse by making people on low incomes most likely earn less and could easily have unintended consequences, and it would also mean the highest earners pay considerably less than what they pay now (even with the evasion/avoidance that goes on). Also, it's like price discrimination in a way, tax discrimination allows the government to attempt to maximize tax revenues from different groups of people, each of whom will have a varied ability to pay the tax.
    High earners will have less incentives to avoid if a flat tax is introduced.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    Cleaners aren't 'vital'... Companies could theoretically survive without them.
    Plus, the work they do is very low skilled and easy to do.
    so then why don't they? why does pretty much every mid-large company have private contracts with cleaning firms?
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    (Original post by Jagwar Ma)
    so then why don't they? why does pretty much every mid-large company have private contracts with cleaning firms?
    Saves from having all the employees do their own bit, so they can just do what they're employed to do.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    Cleaners aren't 'vital'... Companies could theoretically survive without them.
    Plus, the work they do is very low skilled and easy to do.
    Ok let's think about it. Let's say there are two BASE CASE scenarios

    An accountant checks the accounts thoroughly, does his job well, and there are no financial problems.

    A trader brings home £750k in incremental revenue for the firm.

    Upside Case.

    The accountant does his job well and more efficiently, and there are no financial problems. He gets a bit more work done.

    A trader brings home £1m in incremental revenue for the firm.

    Which is more valuable when performing beyond their initial expectations?
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    'Huge excess' is a value judgement based on jealousy and not logic.

    Well that’s ********. Logically, a builder contributes more to society and should therefore get better pay than bankers.

    (Original post by Ladbants)
    There is a larger supply of builders and people with those skills. The people in banking that are earning half a million are adding way more than that in value for the bank.
    Do you even know basic economics? If there is such a huge supply of builders, why do we have a housing crisis? It’s obvious that builders contribute more intrinsic value to society, whereas bankers contribute jack ****.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Ok let's think about it. Let's say there are two BASE CASE scenarios

    An accountant checks the accounts thoroughly, does his job well, and there are no financial problems.

    A trader brings home £750k in incremental revenue for the firm.

    Upside Case.

    The accountant does his job well and more efficiently, and there are no financial problems. He gets a bit more work done.

    A trader brings home £1m in incremental revenue for the firm.

    Which is more valuable when performing beyond their initial expectations?
    I'm not trying to compare the two. But both deserve a decent reward for hard work.
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    (Original post by frankielogue)
    Well that’s ********. Logically, a builder contributes more to society and should therefore get better pay than bankers.



    Do you even know basic economics? If there is such a huge supply of builders, why do we have a housing crisis? It’s obvious that builders contribute more intrinsic value to society, whereas bankers contribute jack ****.
    Intrinsic value to society doesn't mean anything in the economy. People are paid based on the supply and demand for their skills, to put it simply. There is a huge supply of builders compared to bankers. We have a housing shortage because land in desirable areas is expensive and because there aren't enough incentives for developers to build housing, as well as an increase in the population.

    'Intrinsic value to society' does not determine how much people are paid. The value to the employer does.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    How people like that can complain about tax is beyond me. "Oh I only made £143,000 not including bonuses last year, poor me" Love to see them live like the rest of us...
    It's a point of principle. You work and over 50% of the value your employer puts on that work goes to other people.

    You are essentially working for someone else.

    How would you feel if you earned 40k but you only kept 18k?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    It's a point of principle. You work and over 50% of the value your employer puts on that work goes to other people.

    You are essentially working for someone else.

    How would you feel if you earned 40k but you only kept 18k?
    Those 2 circumstances are not comparable. £143k = great life. 18k = barely making it by.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    How people like that can complain about tax is beyond me. "Oh I only made £143,000 not including bonuses last year, poor me" Love to see them live like the rest of us...
    Poor people with an attitude like yours are the ones that stay poor
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    (Original post by frankielogue)



    Do you even know basic economics? If there is such a huge supply of builders, why do we have a housing crisis? It’s obvious that builders contribute more intrinsic value to society, whereas bankers contribute jack ****.
    lol
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    (Original post by Faheemcg9)
    Poor people with an attitude like yours are the ones that stay poor
    I'm not exactly poor. What attitude is that exactly?
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    I'm not exactly poor. What attitude is that exactly?
    They complain about tax because they worked their ass off to get into the position they're in.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Intrinsic value to society doesn't mean anything in the economy. People are paid based on the supply and demand for their skills, to put it simply. There is a huge supply of builders compared to bankers. We have a housing shortage because land in desirable areas is expensive and because there aren't enough incentives for developers to build housing, as well as an increase in the population.

    'Intrinsic value to society' does not determine how much people are paid. The value to the employer does.
    There isn't a huge supply of builders tbh. Quite the contrary -> the lack of builders is commonly stated as being a contributor towards increased building costs that housebuilders are facing.

    That said, builders require an entirely different skillset to bankers.
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    (Original post by Faheemcg9)
    They complain about tax because they worked their ass off to get into the position they're in.
    You never answered the question but ok.
    I'm quite sure they're pretty happy on their 140k a year. Why people aren't grateful for that is beyond me.
 
 
 
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