Is suicide right Watch

Poll: I suicide right?
Yes (79)
58.96%
No (55)
41.04%
darya-duhok
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#81
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#81
it is the most greatest right that the human ever had
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Dadeyemi
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#82
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#82
(Original post by littleshambles)
I've never really asked the question of whether it is right to commit suicide, but whether it is worth it not to.

After one attempt, I crawled to the probably odd and morbid conclusion that by choosing not to commit suicide you are ascribing the only value to life that would make it worth it not to do so - life has value because you do not end it. Circular maybe, but it works for me, and so even when feeling like I might, that life doesn't mean anything, the idea that I am responsible for and can choose life is something important - it means I have control over myself, ultimately, and that I at any point am completely free to annihiliate myself, but I don't. And that is what makes my existence worth it.



Obviously this instinct is not always in play and is not the only one - you're making a normative statement about suicide based on a factual statement about the general character of human nature. But how do you justify using this as a basis for moral statements (humanity, generally, naturally tends to heterosexuality as well, with a large minority which - equally naturally - does not. How do you distinguish between natural and unnatural tendencies without making an evaluative judgement which doesn't have a real basis)? The proportion of people who commit suicide varies across cohorts, because of outside factors. So it's not possible to make definitive statements about what human nature is, because natural reactions to various situations may well be vastly different, and may well be suicide.



I'd question your assumption here, and the hidden assumption that acting rationally (or naturally) is acting rightly.
Our DNA is programmed to make us want to survive, We have several mechanisms and instincts to aid survival, this i why I say survival is our natural tendency. What makes us want to commit suicide is purely environmental ergo my conclusion.

I do believe this instinct is always in play it's just you can "override" your natural logic, i.e. you cant suffocate yourself by holding your breath but you can hang yourself which will prevent your automatic survival response from activating.

I accept that being rational is not equivalent to being right but right/wrong are completely subjective so I think it makes a half decent working definition.
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yawn
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#83
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#83
I do believe this instinct is always in play it's just you can "override" your natural logic, i.e. you cant suffocate yourself by holding your breath but you can hang yourself which will prevent your automatic survival response from activating.
Interestingly, although macabre, unless a person who hangs themselves dies instantly because the neck is broken, they instinctively try to remove the noose from the neck - hence the reason why many hanged suicide victims are found with the noose around their mouth area.

This attempt to remove the noose is purely instinctive, in the same way as a drowning suicide victim will flay around rather than just allow themselves to sink slowly.

I did warn you that it was macabre.
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Sithius
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#84
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#84
It is subjective so I believe there to be no answer to the poll without a given context.
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cdj7007
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#85
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#85
We have free will, so should be able to end our own lives....but is it fair on everyone around us?
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UGeNe
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#86
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#86
Until someone proves the existence of a soul/ hell/ God, any rational person should conclude there is nothing after death, no transfer of anything to anywhere.

Go for it.
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zero_gravity
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#87
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#87
(Original post by kingharewood)
What are our views on the morality behind suicide?
Well...from what I think...it really depends on the person's condition, the overview of one's lifeline, and how much pain and suffering they have endured in their lives. However...from what I see...some would see it as a way to end their continuous pain and suffering, which can be really excruciating at a time of helplessness and depression. Thus, they will develop the need to end their lives. Nevertheless, I think that it is immoral if one suicides just for the sake of it, but if one really has endured so much pain that it becomes unbearable, I think suicide would be a moral thing to do.
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P.M.
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#88
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#88
No, because life is right. However, suicide is 'a' right.
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BADBOY89
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#89
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#89
Suicide, in my opinion is quite right because moralizing and rule by fear is unacceptable (be it from family members, government or a deity that might not even exist). Also, I would better live 40 years like an emperor than 100 but like a mouse who is no f*ckin use at all, rejected and in unhappiness. I also support the right to die. I am sick of not getting what I want. If life constantly gives u slaps, strike back and give it a bullet. It's more painful than all the slaps one has taken.
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elmensa
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#90
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#90
As someone who recently overcame the shackles of depression I understand how people can feel at certain points in their lives. While I believe we should all be stewards to the lives of our loved ones/friends ( in the sense that we should try within all our ability to protect each other).

However, suicide can never be considered immoral. Of course you have religious arguments, such as how devout catholics believe it's against god to take your own life and violate it's sanctity. If someone can no longer bare living, if there is no chance of a rebirth of happiness then they should do as they please. I suppose the only way I could look at suicide as immoral would be if the said person was a parent at the time, then it's a bit wrong. But hey ho.
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A.S.Cobb
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#91
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#91
Is suicide morally right?

Well, I find it a little difficult to place in a moral context. Nevertheless, it depends to a large extent on the type of Ethics you believe in. For example, if I believed in divine command ethics, then suicide would certainly be wrong - God has commanded that murder is wrong.

On the other hand, if one believes in the primacy of the individual wholeheartedly, then I suppose each person has his own choice.

Utilitarians on the other hand may hold a different view..

Personally, I think that it is up to each person to decide what is right or wrong, an thus each individual would commit suicide based on factors relevant to him/herself. Those witnessing or hearing about the suicide may take a completely different view, but that is the ery nature of subjectivity.
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trooper6
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#92
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#92
Well, I agree with many of you ITT, but it depends on the situation.

Several years ago my best friend and I discussed what we would do if we were to be diagnosed with a terminal condition and were given X time to live.

The financial drain on the family’s resources can be huge (particularly in the US). My friend and I both agreed that due to the financial/emotional strain that it would place on the family and the poor quality of life that we would have to endure, that we would probably elect to commit suicide. For these reasons we felt it would be better to expedite the family getting to closure. We even discussed how we thought we might be the best way to go about it etc.

Unfortunately, my friend was diagnosed as terminal within the year. I still miss him.

Under this situation it takes someone who is selfless, not selfish. It takes someone with courage and foresight, consideration for their parents, wife, children, grandchildren and friends. So don’t tell me that it is immoral or incorrect under these conditions.
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screenager2004
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#93
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#93
I hate the argument "Is it moral to force someone to stay alive who doesn't want to be, just for the sake of their family's feelings" it's such a self-centred way of looking at the situation: here is a rephrasing: If you could escape pain, but in doing so, you'd have to transfer it/inflict it onto 5 relatives: would it be moral to do so?
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BADBOY89
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#94
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#94
(Original post by screenager2004)
I hate the argument "Is it moral to force someone to stay alive who doesn't want to be, just for the sake of their family's feelings" it's such a self-centred way of looking at the situation: here is a rephrasing: If you could escape pain, but in doing so, you'd have to transfer it/inflict it onto 5 relatives: would it be moral to do so?
Yes, it will be.

The more you moralize someone not to commit suicide by shouting at them, the more you drive them to do it.

Personally, I am sick of not getting what I want. This is the best way to avenge to fate. If not happy for one reason or another, why live? Better die.
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AnarchistNutter
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#95
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#95
Well, personally I feel that while suicide may not always be moral (it will affect your family and what not), it is impossible for the state to prevent an able bodied person from taking his own life. Why then, should the state prevent a person who is suffering from a terminal illness and physical incable of taking their own life from requesting legalised assisted euthanasia? Also a simple harmless injection from the doctors is a far quicker, easier and more dignified way of passing away than slitting your wrists or taking paracetamol (which many people deem to be a painless way of dying but is actually not very pleasant at all).
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Eradicus
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#96
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#96
Suicide is absolutely right, in that I believe people should have the right to kill themselves, or seek assisted suicide, if they are suffering intolerable pain.

I would first like every medical measure possible to be taken to dissaude them; if they are suffering an ailment then hopefully it can be cured, if not then suficient pain relief administered to as to make life bearable, and if the problem is a psychological one then I would hope counselling, psychiatry sessions or other methods would be employed to cure their depression.

It's a fundamental human right though, I believe, to govern all aspects of our future including our death if our life becomes unliveable. Why prolong someone's suffering? What right can we possibly have?
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Eradicus
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#97
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#97
(Original post by screenager2004)
I hate the argument "Is it moral to force someone to stay alive who doesn't want to be, just for the sake of their family's feelings" it's such a self-centred way of looking at the situation: here is a rephrasing: If you could escape pain, but in doing so, you'd have to transfer it/inflict it onto 5 relatives: would it be moral to do so?
As death is inevitable, the pain would be felt by these relatives at some point inevitably. Surely they would take comfort from knowing that their dearly beloved was no longer suffering intolerably? Surely respecting their wishes is paramount, if they truly loved them?
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screenager2004
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Eradicus)
As death is inevitable, the pain would be felt by these relatives at some point inevitably. Surely they would take comfort from knowing that their dearly beloved was no longer suffering intolerably? Surely respecting their wishes is paramount, if they truly loved them?
You cannot compare it to inevitable death, because the individual chose to take his own life. You cannot assume the family will respect his wishes because unless they were suicidal themselves, they would never be able to empathise fully with the situation. With most families of suicide victims, the overriding feelings are a failure on their part to prevent the suicide, a feeling of rejection, and regret that there was not more communication. It's one of the worst ways to lose a family member.
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Eradicus
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#99
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#99
(Original post by screenager2004)
You cannot compare it to inevitable death, because the individual chose to take his own life. You cannot assume the family will respect his wishes because unless they were suicidal themselves, they would never be able to empathise fully with the situation. With most families of suicide victims, the overriding feelings are a failure on their part to prevent the suicide, a feeling of rejection, and regret that there was not more communication. It's one of the worst ways to lose a family member.
We're definitely talking about entirely different situations here - when the only problems are mental and curable (i.e. depression) suicide shouldn't really be considered, as I said all forms of therapy and medicene should be available to those contemplating suicide for materiel reasons

I'm talking more about euthanasia or assisted suicide, the right to die to end your own physical (and terminal) suffering; having seen my Grandad father wither painfully and pitifully with cancer I would have loved nothing more than to give him a more dignified end, to not see him suffer any longer. Watching him in that state was simply intolerable; thats the kind of situation I'm talking about. Do you agree?
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screenager2004
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#100
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#100
(Original post by Eradicus)
We're definitely talking about entirely different situations here - when the only problems are mental and curable (i.e. depression) suicide shouldn't really be considered, as I said all forms of therapy and medicene should be available to those contemplating suicide for materiel reasons

I'm talking more about euthanasia or assisted suicide, the right to die to end your own physical (and terminal) suffering; having seen my Grandad father wither painfully and pitifully with cancer I would have loved nothing more than to give him a more dignified end, to not see him suffer any longer. Watching him in that state was simply intolerable; thats the kind of situation I'm talking about. Do you agree?
I agree with those points but i was not talking about euthanasia for incurable degenerative disease, i was talking about suicide.
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